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  #1  
Old Sep 20, 2015, 10:02 PM
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Apparently increased testosterone might contribute to schizophrenia, but is there any link with DECREASED testosterone?

My psychotic episode several years ago started just a few weeks after I noticed an abrupt decrease in libido. (I was in my mid 40s at that time.)

I've noticed another drop in libido the past few months, and my eyes play tricks on me more than normal lately. It's not a problem, but I just wondered.

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  #2  
Old Sep 20, 2015, 10:05 PM
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Sometimes psychotic Sometimes psychotic is offline
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never heard of that no, also females are better off than males so it seems unlikely....
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  #3  
Old Sep 21, 2015, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic View Post
never heard of that no, also females are better off than males so it seems unlikely....
Thanks, I couldn't find anything on google either.
  #4  
Old Oct 06, 2015, 12:17 AM
roboanxia roboanxia is offline
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I actually found a lot a lot on pubmed for schizophrenia and testosterone (and estrogen), and I need to thank you for directing my attention to it. I was diagnosed with psychosis, but psychosis NOS possibly because I attributed many of the symptoms to a supplement I was taking for testosterone reduction. It was also rich in flavonoids, which is why it's used to regulate womens' periods. I will report back soon.

Everybody thought I had Asperger's... then WHAM psychotic!
Thanks for this!
x123
  #5  
Old Oct 06, 2015, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by roboanxia View Post
I actually found a lot a lot on pubmed for schizophrenia and testosterone (and estrogen), and I need to thank you for directing my attention to it. I was diagnosed with psychosis, but psychosis NOS possibly because I attributed many of the symptoms to a supplement I was taking for testosterone reduction. It was also rich in flavonoids, which is why it's used to regulate womens' periods. I will report back soon.

Everybody thought I had Asperger's... then WHAM psychotic!
Hmmm. interesting... thanks for the feedback
  #6  
Old Oct 25, 2015, 09:07 PM
roboanxia roboanxia is offline
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First read
"Testosterone for schizophrenia."

The meta-analysis showed no effect for "dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)/testosterone" in experimental trials.

Although only correlational, another good one is
"Testosterone is Inversely Related to Brain Activity during Emotional Inhibition in Schizophrenia"

They did a go/no-go task, which usually involves pressing a button etc, where they had to respond or inhibit response depending on the words shown. Overall the schizophrenic patients did worse on the task, but testosterone seemed to modulate schizophrenic performance on the inhibit negative condition, where they had to inhibit if the word was a negative word like "fear" or "greif". Apparently something called the "emotional Stroop effect" says this happens with negative words for people who are depressed. Low testosterone can lead to depression and anxiety. Tada!
This effect wasn't observed in the control group despite the patient and control groups having similar testosterone levels. However another paper suggests that the problem in schizophrenia may not be androgen (testosterone) levels, but sensitivity to androgens.

See "Comparison of Alopecia severity and blood level of testosterone in men suffering schizophrenia with control group"

Apparently testosterone (androgens) contribute to balding (as well hirsutism, acne, and other features). Although schizophrenics had similar androgen levels to the control group (again), they were less susceptible to alopecia (balding). Thus schizophrenics may have androgen insensitivity at least in some cases.

While testosterone isn't an effect treatment, schizophrenics might want to be particularly wary of low testosterone as it might worsen their condition.

Finally read "The Role of Estrogen in the Treatment of Men with Schizophrenia"

Estrogen has been a successful treatment at least in women, but there has been difficulty recruiting male subjects.

All of this research can be read on NIH.gov, but the first one will only show the abstract unless you pay up. Maybe you can find the full version on a .edu somewhere.

As for me, I have practically no chest hair. Uh oh!
Thanks for this!
x123
  #7  
Old Oct 25, 2015, 09:35 PM
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What does autism have to do with psychosis?
  #8  
Old Oct 26, 2015, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by roboanxia View Post
First read
"Testosterone for schizophrenia."

The meta-analysis showed no effect for "dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)/testosterone" in experimental trials.

Although only correlational, another good one is
"Testosterone is Inversely Related to Brain Activity during Emotional Inhibition in Schizophrenia"

They did a go/no-go task, which usually involves pressing a button etc, where they had to respond or inhibit response depending on the words shown. Overall the schizophrenic patients did worse on the task, but testosterone seemed to modulate schizophrenic performance on the inhibit negative condition, where they had to inhibit if the word was a negative word like "fear" or "greif". Apparently something called the "emotional Stroop effect" says this happens with negative words for people who are depressed. Low testosterone can lead to depression and anxiety. Tada!
This effect wasn't observed in the control group despite the patient and control groups having similar testosterone levels. However another paper suggests that the problem in schizophrenia may not be androgen (testosterone) levels, but sensitivity to androgens.

See "Comparison of Alopecia severity and blood level of testosterone in men suffering schizophrenia with control group"

Apparently testosterone (androgens) contribute to balding (as well hirsutism, acne, and other features). Although schizophrenics had similar androgen levels to the control group (again), they were less susceptible to alopecia (balding). Thus schizophrenics may have androgen insensitivity at least in some cases.

While testosterone isn't an effect treatment, schizophrenics might want to be particularly wary of low testosterone as it might worsen their condition.

Finally read "The Role of Estrogen in the Treatment of Men with Schizophrenia"

Estrogen has been a successful treatment at least in women, but there has been difficulty recruiting male subjects.

All of this research can be read on NIH.gov, but the first one will only show the abstract unless you pay up. Maybe you can find the full version on a .edu somewhere.

As for me, I have practically no chest hair. Uh oh!
Thanks, that is interesting information. My doctors are so crummy, I can't get them to even test my testosterone. I live in a town with mostly lower income people, so the doctors focus on the more basic problems. The hospital actually tried to close down entirely a few years ago, because it loses so much money. (Or maybe I am just too easily discouraged. My father said it is important to be persistent with medical issues.)
  #9  
Old Oct 26, 2015, 08:21 PM
roboanxia roboanxia is offline
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You can request copies of your bloodwork and see what they tell you. The math behind the FAI (free androgen index) looks pretty simple. I've never seen my bloodwork so I don't know how difficult it is to interpret.

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What does autism have to do with psychosis?
Nothing at all.

In fact, they might be opposites. Wanna see the research?
  #10  
Old Oct 26, 2015, 09:16 PM
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You show me yours, I'll show you mine. LOL
  #11  
Old Oct 26, 2015, 09:31 PM
roboanxia roboanxia is offline
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Actually there are two I know of with seemingly conflicting results.

"Family History of Schizophrenia and Bipolar Disorder as Risk Factors for Autism"

"Opposite risk patterns for autism and schizophrenia are associated with normal variation in birth size: phenotypic support for hypothesized diametric gene-dosage effects."

The first shows that they may be related, but the latter shows that at least some of the risk factors involved are opposing, ie some (probably epigenetic) risk factors for autism seem to be protective against psychotic conditions and vice versa.
  #12  
Old Oct 26, 2015, 09:35 PM
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Well I got it all in my extended family. Bipolar, schizophrenia, autism, high testosterone, dwindling testosterone.

Holidays are fun.
  #13  
Old Oct 26, 2015, 10:16 PM
roboanxia roboanxia is offline
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I'm reading the estrogen study, and it cites another study as evidence of a link between low testosterone and psychosis. It's called:

"Testosterone in newly diagnosed, antipsychotic-naive men with nonaffective psychosis: a test of the accelerated aging hypothesis."

The study sets out to investigate testosterone levels in schizophrenics compared to controls, and this one, unlike the others, found that schizophrenics had lower testosterone. HOWEVER they used newly diagnosed schizophrenics, because they hadn't been exposed to any antipsychotics drugs yet, so were more similar to the controls. I think the estrogen study authors are citing it as a link between low testosterone and psychosis because these newly diagnosed schizophrenics had probably just experienced a psychotic episode. How interesting! Again, low testosterone can cause depression and anxiety, which may be how it would trigger psychosis.

The estrogen authors further point out that low testosterone results in low estrogen too, and that each have been linked with related deficits.
I should also add that the evidence for estrogen as a treatment is strong for women. With the limited trials involving schizophrenic men, results have been mixed, but maybe slightly on the positive side.

Last edited by roboanxia; Oct 26, 2015 at 10:34 PM.
  #14  
Old Oct 26, 2015, 10:25 PM
roboanxia roboanxia is offline
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I must be manic because research papers are super interesting again...
  #15  
Old Oct 26, 2015, 10:29 PM
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This happens to me. I get very, very intellectual and opinionated.

So do you feel that taking female over the counter hormones are helping you?
  #16  
Old Oct 26, 2015, 10:47 PM
roboanxia roboanxia is offline
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I haven't tried just estrogen yet. I was taking licorice root when I had my first episode. There were no hallucinations, but paranoia definitely and depression perhaps as well. Licorice root substantially lowers testosterone, my original reason for taking it. I had been taking it intermitteny for 2 to 3 years, but I really started taking it heavily before I was admitted. Call me crazy, but I got a kick out of being crazy. Maybe not smart in the long run because I still have a noticeably elevated emotional responsiveness to photographs, despite being off the stuff. The drug may also have been estrogenic, but not as strongly as its testo-reduction. Anyway that might explain why I began feeling girly on it. I don't know.
  #17  
Old Oct 26, 2015, 10:51 PM
roboanxia roboanxia is offline
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I wonder whether there are similarities between mania and hyperfocus...

Amywsy it's not mania because mania doesn't last for just one night. I was being stupid.
  #18  
Old Oct 26, 2015, 11:04 PM
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Licorice root. Never tried it that way. Only sucked it.
  #19  
Old Oct 27, 2015, 05:31 PM
roboanxia roboanxia is offline
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Here is one I saw through this website.
Sex Change Hormones May Alter Brain Chemistry, Depression Risk | Psych Central News

Apparently higher testosterone cause higher levels of SERT, which transports serotonin into nerve cells. From the estrogen paper: "Interestingly, neurocognitive and mood impairments are features of schizophrenia and other severe mental illnesses characterized by abnormalities in dopaminergic and serotonergic activity." and also: "[E]strogens reduce dopamine receptor sensitivity and increase D2 receptor density in the striatum of ovariectomized rats, while also significantly enhancing serotonergic neurotransmission (Kulkarni J et al, 2012)."

It appears that both testosterone and estrogen are important to serotonergic neurotransmission, abnormalities in which can cause schizophrenia-related impairments. Low levels of either seem to cause problems, but what about high levels? I want to see that testosterone metaanalysis!!! Apparently it was "inconclusive". I should have read more closely.

Last edited by roboanxia; Oct 27, 2015 at 06:06 PM.
  #20  
Old Oct 27, 2015, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by roboanxia View Post
Here is one I saw through this website.
Sex Change Hormones May Alter Brain Chemistry, Depression Risk | Psych Central News

Apparently higher testosterone cause higher levels of SERT, which transports serotonin into nerve cells. From the estrogen paper: "Interestingly, neurocognitive and mood impairments are features of schizophrenia and other severe mental illnesses characterized by abnormalities in dopaminergic and serotonergic activity." and also: "[E]strogens reduce dopamine receptor sensitivity and increase D2 receptor density in the striatum of ovariectomized rats, while also significantly enhancing serotonergic neurotransmission (Kulkarni J et al, 2012)."

It appears that both testosterone and estrogen are important to serotonergic neurotransmission, abnormalities in which can cause schizophrenia-related impairments. Low levels of either seem to cause problems, but what about high levels? I want to see that testosterone metaanalysis!!! Apparently it was "inconclusive". I should have read more closely.
I have just high levels of hormones. I just had a test. I am not menopausal yet. Which reminds me, I really need to go to a gynecologist. I haven't gone in a few years.

I just can't handle anymore sickness.
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