[Loial]

Just thought people might be interested in the results of a new study suggesting the length of the Paracingulate Sulcus in the frontal part of the brain is linked to hallucinations, with a shorter length predisposing one to hallucinations.

Frontal brain wrinkle linked to hallucinations - BBC News

Paracingulate sulcus morphology is associated with hallucinations in the human brain : Nature Communications : Nature Publishing Group

A study of 153 brain scans has linked a particular furrow, near the front of each hemisphere, to hallucinations in schizophrenia.

This fold tends to be shorter in those patients who hallucinate, compared with those who do not.

It is an area of the brain that appears to have a role in distinguishing real perceptions from imagined ones.

...

The study's first author, Jane Garrison, said that although other factors were certainly at play when a brain generates hallucinations, this was an important observation.

"We think that the PCS is involved in brain networks that help us recognise information that has been generated ourselves," she explained. "People with a shorter PCS seem less able to distinguish the origin of such information, and appear more likely to experience it as having been generated externally.

"Hallucinations are very complex phenomena that are a hallmark of mental illness and, in different forms, are also quite common across the general population.

"There is likely to be more than one explanation for why they arise, but this finding seems to help explain why some people experience things that are not actually real."

Stephen Lawrie, a professor of psychiatry at the University of Edinburgh, was not involved with the research but has studied brain structure in relation to schizophrenia and hallucinations.

He said the new findings were thoroughly researched and quite surprising - partly because, although schizophrenia is known to affect frontal parts of the brain like the PCS, hallucinations in particular are often associated with other areas that control perception and language.

[junkDNA]

wow,interesting

[12AM]

Nice info Loial thanks

[Sometimes psychotic]

I kind of don't buy this because it's not like the meds are helping you grow a wrinklier PCS. Plus you can go from hallucinating to not like overnight and vice versa. It's not like your actual brain is changing. Plus anyone can hallucinate given the right circumstances----usually drugs but also sensory deprivation etc. In short, meh.

I don't know, I don't really understand the biology of it but it is interesting. Also, I would trust Nature as a source.

[Loial]

I think you are perhaps misunderstanding what is suggested here. Perhaps my choice of wording was not the best.

Just to clarify, the participants in the study were control, schizophrenics without hallucinations & schizophrenics with hallucinations. In both the control & the schizophrenics without hallucinations the PCS was longer.

The suggestion is that a shorter PCS makes one more likely to experience hallucinations. I believe the study cites an increase in likelihood of 19.9%. The reason why the PCS is of particular relevance is that region of the brain is involved in the ability to distinguish between reality & imagination.

However, the study recognises that there are a number of factors involved in hallucinations, ergo, this is not the sole cause. It's just one of many factors, that taken together would cause hallucinations. You are very right in your observation that medication would not change this abnormality... that is not something that diminishes the possible role of this abnormality in hallucinations though since the medication may act on other factors.

Of course, your point about the fact anyone can experience hallucinations does raise the question of what role this actually plays in general but remember, the context is specifically with regards to schizophrenics who experience hallucinations.

All this study really does it point to a link. It's not something that has been proven... they clearly say it is a hypothesis as to the role this abnormality plays.

It's still a very interesting finding though.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by chickenfoot

I don't know, I don't really understand the biology of it but it is interesting. Also, I would trust Nature as a source.

It's nature communications not the real Nature, it's just the same brand but like a low end model.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Loial

I think you are perhaps misunderstanding what is suggested here. Perhaps my choice of wording was not the best.

Just to clarify, the participants in the study were control, schizophrenics without hallucinations & schizophrenics with hallucinations. In both the control & the schizophrenics without hallucinations the PCS was longer.

The suggestion is that a shorter PCS makes one more likely to experience hallucinations. I believe the study cites an increase in likelihood of 19.9%. The reason why the PCS is of particular relevance is that region of the brain is involved in the ability to distinguish between reality & imagination.

However, the study recognises that there are a number of factors involved in hallucinations, ergo, this is not the sole cause. It's just one of many factors, that taken together would cause hallucinations. You are very right in your observation that medication would not change this abnormality... that is not something that diminishes the possible role of this abnormality in hallucinations though since the medication may act on other factors.

Of course, your point about the fact anyone can experience hallucinations does raise the question of what role this actually plays in general but remember, the context is specifically with regards to schizophrenics who experience hallucinations.

All this study really does it point to a link. It's not something that has been proven... they clearly say it is a hypothesis as to the role this abnormality plays.

It's still a very interesting finding though.

IDK I still say meh---I understand all your points but I don't find it intriguing in part because structural brain abnormalities essentially cannot be treated. It's not like anyone can make the PCS grow larger. This doesn't do anything to advance the state of the art for patients it's roughly like noting that trees are green or that 19% of trees are green at any rate. Now if they showed that these 19% were treatment resistant or something that would make a lot of sense to me, although it still wouldn't offer any new treatment options.

[Loial]

I think that's a somewhat limited viewpoint: "If it doesn't have practical applications to treating the condition, it's not important."

I think it's just as important to expand our understanding of these conditions, as well as how the brain functions in general as well.

It might not mean much by itself, but perhaps one day all these small findings will add up to give us a big picture & could lead to new treatments being developed. Who knows.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Loial

I think that's a somewhat limited viewpoint: "If it doesn't have practical applications to treating the condition, it's not important."

I think it's just as important to expand our understanding of these conditions, as well as how the brain functions in general as well.

It might not mean much by itself, but perhaps one day all these small findings will add up to give us a big picture & could lead to new treatments being developed. Who knows.

That's not exactly what I'm saying------some things come out of nothing in science---like GFP tagging which is huge from some crazy squid or crisper from bacterial phage defense system. Those things are mega cool. This just isn't one of those things.

I think the whole idea that one region of the brain specifically controls one process is a lot like phrenology----thanks to neuroplasticity we know its a bit more complicated than that and if you lose function in one area you can gain it in another. So I'd rather see fMRI data than physical measurements.

I'm not meaning to sour you on something you're obviously into but for me its still meh.