[SoScorpio]

My roommate is schizophrenic. She's lived with my boyfriend and I for almost 3 years. We met at work and became friends first.
There have been times in the past where she's lied or withheld information that made me really mad, but my boyfriend hears far more about it than she does. I really really hate being lied to, but I will almost never confront someone I think is lying. In her case especially, I don't know how she'll respond if I do.
We've had our ups and downs, and often have trouble keeping up communication because she hears my voice saying mean things in her head. But I thought we had gotten better lately. She's been compliant on her medication. About 3 weeks ago we had a good talk about why I get so uncomfortable sometimes, that I worry she really does hate me. I thought we'd start talking more, but since then she's barely been home during the week. At first I thought she must just be getting a lot of hours at work, but then I started doing the math. I used to work right next door to where she does, so I know the bus route and how long it takes. If she was going only to and from work, she'd be making overtime, and she's only a part time employee.
I mentioned this to my boyfriend and he said he thought maybe she has a new boyfriend. She hasn't had one since we've known her. He said he heard her talking on the phone with a guy, and the other night I heard her tell him she was going to bed, she went into her room, and immediately I got a text from her saying "Are you still up?" Followed by "oh sorry, that was supposed to go to someone else." So I started to get that impression too.
Finally I saw a chance to talk to her casually a few minutes ago. I said she had a long week, must be making close to 40 hours. She said no, she's only at about 30. That's a lot of hours unaccounted for, so I casually asked if she was stopping somewhere after work. After a few seconds she said she'd been going to the workout room. Thing is, if she did go home right after work, at only 30 hours in five days, she'd be spending 3 hours a day there, which is doubtful. She also told us she lost the key card to get in there, so there would always have to be someone to let her in.
Plus the other night she got home past 1am, saying she'd had to cover a closing shift. But when she got home, she didn't go to the bathroom for the 3 hours afterward that I was awake. After a 2 hour commute, she almost always goes to the bathroom as soon as she gets home. So I think she was at someone's house for those missing hours.
Do I sound paranoid? It's just that she's lied before, but almost always when she was afraid of getting in trouble. And whenever I catch her in a lie there's always discrepancies like this that make me suspicious in the first place.

I just don't get it. Why would she lie about this? It's not like it's a bad thing, unless, I dunno, she's actually been out late because of a horrible new drug habit or something, but I tend to doubt it.
I did my best to make it sound like casual conversation. I didn't accuse her. But every time she lies to me it's like a knife in my heart. Why does she lie to me? How can I get her to stop lying without confronting her? It doesn't seem like a good idea to just tell her I think she's lying.
I don't know what to do anymore.

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[junkDNA]

not entirely sure why it's your business what shes doing with her time

unless you suspect its dangerous to herself or others

[SoScorpio]

She's my roommate. I thought she was my friend. I tell her about my boyfriend, or anything. I just don't get why she's so secretive about it. It does make me wonder if it's something bad, because in the past she's lied about breaking my things, or getting fired from work. And every time I feel more and more like she just hates me, but my boyfriend seems to think she doesn't. I just don't ****ing get it. I'm tired of being lied to, tired of feeling like a piece of **** just because I care.
The last guy she was close to started stalking her, so yes, I do have reason to be worried. But mostly I'm just hurt that she would lie to a direct question.

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[tom2123]

Please dont refer to her or anyone else with schizophrenia as a "schizophrenic". Please just say something like "my roomate that has schizophrenia".

[SoScorpio]

Okay then... But that's kinda the definition of the word. I could see it being offensive if I used it to describe someone I simply think is crazy... It's not like I meant it maliciously.

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[tom2123]

I didnt mean to be rude, I just wanted some compassion to be shown for those that deal with it and for those that suffer from it to stop being labeled so often.

Originally Posted by tom2123

I didnt mean to be rude, I just wanted some compassion to be shown for those that deal with it and for those that suffer from it to stop being labeled so often.

Loads of people with schizophrenia say "I'm schizophrenic" , no need for the political correctness.

[tom2123]

Originally Posted by chickenfoot

Loads of people with schizophrenia say "I'm schizophrenic" , no need for the political correctness.

That doesnt make it right. Theres nothing political about it. Im not one for political correctness at all but I feel it leaves the door open for stigmatizing. Whatever though.

[jaynedough]

Let me ask you something. How would you feel if your every move was put under a microscope? Try reading what you wrote again, but this time, pretend that you're on the receiving end of all that surveillance. How would it make you feel? Would you be more likely to want to avoid being exposed to that? Would you lie to avoid conflict? Now add in the paranoia that many of us experience. How scary would it be to feel spied on like that?

Maybe it's time for you to part ways. This isn't healthy for her.

I was wondering what your Pdoc has said about this. I saw that you were going to go see someone, but didn't see any posts about how that appointment went.

[SoScorpio]

I do feel like that. All the time.
My pdoc was just for meds. I got laid off and can't afford to see anyone else right now.
I don't think parting ways is an option, we just re signed the lease, and she doesn't make enough to live alone, nor would she be safe to.

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[D.B. Cooper]

Originally Posted by chickenfoot

Loads of people with schizophrenia say "I'm schizophrenic" , no need for the political correctness.

Agreed, I'm schizophrenic, how else should I say it? I don't think stigmatizing happens till people start reacting as though there is something derogatory about it. I got enough to deal with just in communicating some days, don't need knit picking over basic terminology complicating things. Just saying.

[KarenSue]

Originally Posted by junkDNA

not entirely sure why it's your business what shes doing with her time

unless you suspect its dangerous to herself or others

junk, OP is obviously kind and has taken this person under her wing to try to make a positive difference and keep her off the streets. That person lives in OP's home, it is her business because that person's actions can come back to OP's being held responsible for that person's actions. The law on neglecting to monitor a person in OP's home, who she knows is suffering from an MI, is set up to prosecute OP. I've seen it, and it is ugly and unfair, but hardly anyone in law enforcement, from lawyers to judges, rarely care about much more than making the county or other judicial authority money, and getting home early. My hat is off to the ones who are moral in the legal system.

I don't understand why you felt that telling the OP to mind her business is in any way productive (or safe) for OP or the room mate.

[likewater]

Originally Posted by SoScorpio

Okay then... But that's kinda the definition of the word. I could see it being offensive if I used it to describe someone I simply think is crazy... It's not like I meant it maliciously.

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When you say someone is Schizophrenic, it makes it sound as I'd that is what defines them. I'd you say they have schizophrenia, you recognize they are an individual with an illness, but they are not that illness.

[likewater]

Originally Posted by SoScorpio

My roommate is schizophrenic. She's lived with my boyfriend and I for almost 3 years. We met at work and became friends first.
There have been times in the past where she's lied or withheld information that made me really mad, but my boyfriend hears far more about it than she does. I really really hate being lied to, but I will almost never confront someone I think is lying. In her case especially, I don't know how she'll respond if I do.
We've had our ups and downs, and often have trouble keeping up communication because she hears my voice saying mean things in her head. But I thought we had gotten better lately. She's been compliant on her medication. About 3 weeks ago we had a good talk about why I get so uncomfortable sometimes, that I worry she really does hate me. I thought we'd start talking more, but since then she's barely been home during the week. At first I thought she must just be getting a lot of hours at work, but then I started doing the math. I used to work right next door to where she does, so I know the bus route and how long it takes. If she was going only to and from work, she'd be making overtime, and she's only a part time employee.
I mentioned this to my boyfriend and he said he thought maybe she has a new boyfriend. She hasn't had one since we've known her. He said he heard her talking on the phone with a guy, and the other night I heard her tell him she was going to bed, she went into her room, and immediately I got a text from her saying "Are you still up?" Followed by "oh sorry, that was supposed to go to someone else." So I started to get that impression too.
Finally I saw a chance to talk to her casually a few minutes ago. I said she had a long week, must be making close to 40 hours. She said no, she's only at about 30. That's a lot of hours unaccounted for, so I casually asked if she was stopping somewhere after work. After a few seconds she said she'd been going to the workout room. Thing is, if she did go home right after work, at only 30 hours in five days, she'd be spending 3 hours a day there, which is doubtful. She also told us she lost the key card to get in there, so there would always have to be someone to let her in.
Plus the other night she got home past 1am, saying she'd had to cover a closing shift. But when she got home, she didn't go to the bathroom for the 3 hours afterward that I was awake. After a 2 hour commute, she almost always goes to the bathroom as soon as she gets home. So I think she was at someone's house for those missing hours.
Do I sound paranoid? It's just that she's lied before, but almost always when she was afraid of getting in trouble. And whenever I catch her in a lie there's always discrepancies like this that make me suspicious in the first place.

I just don't get it. Why would she lie about this? It's not like it's a bad thing, unless, I dunno, she's actually been out late because of a horrible new drug habit or something, but I tend to doubt it.
I did my best to make it sound like casual conversation. I didn't accuse her. But every time she lies to me it's like a knife in my heart. Why does she lie to me? How can I get her to stop lying without confronting her? It doesn't seem like a good idea to just tell her I think she's lying.
I don't know what to do anymore.

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Your roommate might just be very private. I wouldn't take it personally.

[KarenSue]

Originally Posted by tom2123

Please dont refer to her or anyone else with schizophrenia as a "schizophrenic". Please just say something like "my roomate that has schizophrenia".

Sorry, tom, but I don't understand your response to OP. It was clearly not her intent to "stigmatize" her room mate. OP is posting on a mental health site whose purpose is not to "stigmatize" any of us, but allows open discussion in the hopes that we can find useful methods of dealing with our MI. PC does not share any information about members, if my understanding of it's privacy policy is correct.

I have just read a bit about schizophrenia, since I have no experience of the condition. I found sites that use both schizophrenia and schizophrenic

Example: "Significant social support is needed for most schizophrenic patients"

Another: schizophrenia in Medicine:
schizophrenic schiz·o·phren·ic (skĭt'sə-frěn'ĭk)
adj.
Of, relating to, or affected by schizophrenia. n.
One who is affected with schizophrenia.

Seems learned professionals can't agree on the proper usage of each form of the word. How could one who does not suffer from schizophrenia know the difference? The terms seem interchangeable to us outsiders.

I feel now like if I call a man from France a Frenchman, I'm stigmatizing them..??..

However, I will make a mental note not to use schizophrenic myself as not to upset you or others who feel that way. I will say the longer version of "someone who has schizophrenia".

[KarenSue]

Originally Posted by likewater

Your roommate might just be very private. I wouldn't take it personally.

Hi likewater. It is logical to me that the OP is obviously not dealing with just a "very private person" to me. The room mate has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Here is a definition I found for schizophrenia:

schizophrenia
(skĭt'sə-frē'nē-ə, skĭt'sə-)
Any of a group of psychiatric disorders characterized by withdrawal from reality, illogical patterns of thinking, delusions, hallucinations, and psychotic behavior.
*The American Heritage® Science Dictionary
Copyright © 2002. Published by Houghton Mifflin. All rights reserved.

I believe those professionals would agree that there is a HUGE difference between a "very private person" and a someone who suffers from the symptoms listed above.

[junkDNA]

Originally Posted by KarenSue

Hi likewater. It is logical to me that the OP is obviously not dealing with just a "very private person" to me. The room mate has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Here is a definition I found for schizophrenia:

schizophrenia
(skĭt'sə-frē'nē-ə, skĭt'sə-)
Any of a group of psychiatric disorders characterized by withdrawal from reality, illogical patterns of thinking, delusions, hallucinations, and psychotic behavior.
*The American Heritage® Science Dictionary
Copyright © 2002. Published by Houghton Mifflin. All rights reserved.

I believe those professionals would agree that there is a HUGE difference between a "very private person" and a someone who suffers from the symptoms listed above.

You do realize that she posted on the schizophrenia subforum where many of us are schizophrenic. So no need to copy paste a definition of the illness. your justification of her being schizophrenic which means she doesn't have the right to be private is ridiculous. People with schizophrenia can be very functional and don't need constant monitering. Thats what I find offensive in this thread.

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[D.B. Cooper]

Originally Posted by SoScorpio

It's just that she's lied before, but almost always when she was afraid of getting in trouble.

Here, IMHO, you have probably answered your own question. In trouble with who? You? If that's the case, then that is most likely your answer. Because we experience reality on different terms, interpret it different, react to it differently, make choices and decisions that may not make sense to others, seem illogical and even detrimental friends and family tend to feel they need to monitor your every move, worried that we are incapable of taking care of ourselves. Especially the ones with natural caretaker/protector/leader type personalities. It's just who they are, they need to make sure everyone is taken care of and safe. It's hard for them to let us do it ourselves, and live our lives. If not addressed it becomes a codependency detrimental to both sides, it doesn't help any to not promote self-sufficiency. There are reasons for your roommate/friend to be in trouble with you like borrowing clothes without asking (I hear that is very upsetting to women), waiting your food, not cleaning up behind themselves or doing their part of chores, not being able to pay their portion, breaking things, sleeping with your boyfriend, you know, that type of thing, and if that's the sort of thing you mean by getting in trouble, then I apologize, and please disregard this. But if it's about other things, choices she makes, things she chooses to do, etc., then that is most likely why she does these things. She thinks you won't approve of what she is doing, or choices she's making, and therefore tries to hide things from you. And possibly even if all of said circumstances are legitimate and not out of bounds, it could still evoke this type of petulant, rebellious child attitude. The most important thing is, either way, not to take it as a personal affront, it's most likely not done to intentionally hurt or offend you. You've got to continuously remind yourself that the world you live in and the one she lives in are not the same, and never will be. It can be just short of impossible for her to comprehend how you see it. Just the difference in interpretation can be exact opposites of each other. Things people say and do almost never mean the same thing to me as what they were intended to. I constantly have the wrong understanding from what people say, and trying to understand how a statement means that instead of this is a real challenge. And explaining it does no good, then I just get confussed and lost, it can take days, weeks, months, even years before I can see it. Matter of fact, just about a month ago, I got one straightened out that went all the way back to junior high, and I'm almost 45 now. It's not easy, and everyone is different, but try to keep in mind you two literally live in completely different realities, just in the interpretation and perception of what occurs if nothing else. And you can add the disassociative part on as well. Sometimes it is just as simple as not understanding that something hurts or upsets or offends someone else. It's really difficult to wrap your brain around the fact that this or that hurts or offends or upsets someone just because we don't understand how it possibly could. It doesn't make sense, we don't feel these things from this, on either end of it, so can't even fathom how it is possible for someone else to feel that. Even when someone tries to explain it, just doesn't make sense. "____ is OK, we aren't hurting anyone." And if there should happen to be any paranoia on any level to accompany the schizophrenia, then you get to add in this horrible feeling that everyone is against you. From the mild just a person or two up to something, to hearing people saying your name when they whisper, or through doors and walls, can't make out anything else, but you know their talking about you, and it goes up from there. Every where you go, everyone is starring at you, all the time, and it can build as far as the entire planet conspiring against you, can't trust anyone, can't talk about it, it can get really, really bad. Believe me. But even at its most miniscule, for me, you still have to keep doors and windows locked, check them all regularly, sit with your back to a corner, even in your own living room, always watching everything around you. Just try to keep these things in mind, things are very different for you, she lives in another place, and most likely just does not understand and doesn't mean to hurt you. I would say it seems fairly obvious you matter significantly to her, she is putting no small amount of work to hide whatever because of what she thinks your opinion will be. If you were important to her, she would just blatantly do what ever and give two shits about you or what you think, disassociative once again. So patience, patience, patience.

[12AM]

Hi SoScorpio. I believe you are a good person who cares about your friend so much. I’ll try to give my opinion based on your story. You said 3 weeks ago you had a good talk with her about how u feel uncomfortable , etc, but after that she’s barely home. This is clear to me that it is only you who think that that talk was “a good talk”, while she feels otherwise. She might feel uncomfortable with how you treat her. You might think what you do is for her safety, but what if she finds it annoying? What if she feels that you don’t trust her enough to take care of herself? Having a schizophrenia (or any mental illness) doesn’t always mean that the person has to be monitored 24/7. Yes, there are tough times that hallucinations and delusions take over us, but there are times that we can handle them as well. It doesn’t mean that she hates you, could be just because she thinks you wouldn’t understand even if she explains it many times (or maybe she did explain it to you?), and she doesn’t want you to be more worried. Or could be just like what had happened before, she heard you saying mean things in her head while in fact you didn’t. But personally, I think the most important thing is not asking her why she does this or that, but be there for her when she needs you. We, people who hear voices in our head are tired enough trying to win arguments with unreal people, and now we have to argue with real people as well? Please don’t blame us if we choose to lie. Instead of having a convo over convo, I suggest you to show her that you care about her by doing simple things, cooking breakfast for her maybe sometimes, or a hug after she got home from work. We can’t control people, in this case means we can’t control when people have to be honest to us. She might need more time to trust you just like you need more time to believe her that she can take care of herself. In time, she is the one who will talk to you when she finally realized that you do care about her. She doesn’t need your eyes as camera watching over her, she needs your hand to pick her up when she falls. Good luck

[SoScorpio]

Originally Posted by D.B. Cooper

Here, IMHO, you have probably answered your own question. In trouble with who? You? If that's the case, then that is most likely your answer. Because we experience reality on different terms, interpret it different, react to it differently, make choices and decisions that may not make sense to others, seem illogical and even detrimental friends and family tend to feel they need to monitor your every move, worried that we are incapable of taking care of ourselves. Especially the ones with natural caretaker/protector/leader type personalities. It's just who they are, they need to make sure everyone is taken care of and safe.

Yeah, that definitely describes me. And I have become aware of it and my boyfriend has helped me to be less overbearing. The thing is even if I don't say anything I can't seem to stop myself obsessing about it, and it makes me think that some kind of action can resolve it. I guess sometimes I just have to let stuff go.

There are reasons for your roommate/friend to be in trouble with you like borrowing clothes without asking (I hear that is very upsetting to women), waiting your food, not cleaning up behind themselves or doing their part of chores, not being able to pay their portion, breaking things, sleeping with your boyfriend, you know, that type of thing, and if that's the sort of thing you mean by getting in trouble, then I apologize, and please disregard this.

Yeah that is the stuff she's lied about (not sleeping with my boyfriend though thank god) and my biggest concerns. I guess that's why it confused me, because I don't see how she thinks having a boyfriend would be anything like those things. Then again we did warn her about the last guy and told her not to invite him over, and once she did anyway and had to admit it because he was refusing to leave. So maybe she has that association in her mind with us knowing about her seeing someone.

The most important thing is, either way, not to take it as a personal affront, it's most likely not done to intentionally hurt or offend you. You've got to continuously remind yourself that the world you live in and the one she lives in are not the same, and never will be. It can be just short of impossible for her to comprehend how you see it. Just the difference in interpretation can be exact opposites of each other. Things people say and do almost never mean the same thing to me as what they were intended to. I constantly have the wrong understanding from what people say, and trying to understand how a statement means that instead of this is a real challenge. And explaining it does no good, then I just get confussed and lost, it can take days, weeks, months, even years before I can see it.

My boyfriend says the same thing about not taking it personally... I guess I just keep thinking it will get better. I'll try harder to remind myself.
The funny thing is the rest of what you say here, I experience too. I don't think I have SZ but I do sometimes have the personal paranoia thing where I think people are talking about me or that something that happens is because of me. In fact every time I hear her and my boyfriend talking in another room I think they're talking about me and always have to remind myself that's silly. I also have a really hard time making certain distinctions. Just yesterday I thought I heard her crying in her room and asked my boyfriend if he thought I should say something, and he suggested I ask what's wrong or if there's anything I can do. But out of nervousness and instinct, instead I said "Are you okay?" and kicked myself when she said she was fine, because that's what I always say too, even if I actually want to talk about it. And I can even relate to feeling watched, I do feel like I have to justify every single thing I do, and I don't even know to who. Not God, because I don't believe in a sentient deity. And I don't think someone is reading my mind or anything. I just feel like I have to be able to explain all of my actions, in case someone is watching or asks.

I would say it seems fairly obvious you matter significantly to her, she is putting no small amount of work to hide whatever because of what she thinks your opinion will be.

Thank you... I try to keep this in mind, my boyfriend says this too.. You may be starting to wonder why I don't just listen to him but it helps to have his view confirmed on here, because he claims to know an awful lot about mental illness for someone who has evidently never had any, or had to deal with any besides his mother's alcoholism. And some how it makes more sense when you say it.

I'm trying to just spend more time with her and not ask too many questions. I do realize my own mental illness and personal hangups play a part in this. It's really hard for me to not take things personally, or understand why even people without SZ are so secretive about some things. I'm an open book.

Thank you so much for responding to me without being belittling or accusing. I know I'm a little crazy too, but this kind of thing bothers me so much because I feel hurt, not because I'm some control freak or feel like everyone has to answer to me. But I guess I can see how it would seem that way.
Thank you, thank you again.

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[KarenSue]

Originally Posted by junkDNA

You do realize that she posted on the schizophrenia subforum where many of us are schizophrenic. So no need to copy paste a definition of the illness. your justification of her being schizophrenic which means she doesn't have the right to be private is ridiculous. People with schizophrenia can be very functional and don't need constant monitering. Thats what I find offensive in this thread.

Junk,tom and all, I'm very sorry. I did not realize this was categorized as the schizophrenia subforum. I deeply apologize for anything I said that was inappropriate for this subforum (or on any forum). You have helped me learn a lot, and I appreciate that tremendously. I obviously was speaking from ignorance of the condition. The definitions were all I had to go on, and I should know better than to reduce a condition down to a definition.

Again, I am very sorry.

[D.B. Cooper]

Originally Posted by junkDNA

People with schizophrenia can be very functional and don't need constant monitoring. That's what I find offensive in this thread.

I agree, don't need to be monitored or coddled, need to get out and live. Really, though, that only ranks as second most offensive thing in this thread for me. The first should probably have it's own thread, and maybe already does, I haven't dug around to extensively yet, but the use of the word illness bothers me, always has. It's not an illness, I'm not sick or broken, I don't need to be healed or fixed. I was supposed to be like this, we all are, IMHO. Everyone who has what are now being called "disorders" is. Go back a few centuries and the people who today are called mentally ill and are said to have a disorder used to be called other things like gifted, talented, genius, champion, hero, prophet, mystic, sage, seer, shaman, holy man, touched by God (gods, spirits), walking in the spirit realm, blessed. It isn't to the comply and conform ideology that leads to this near world wide police state that these things became negatives and illnesses , requiring monitoring healing and fixing.

[tom2123]

Originally Posted by KarenSue

tom, I'm very sorry. I did not realize this was categorized as the schizophrenia subforum. I deeply apologize for anything I said that may have been inappropriate for this subforum (or on any forum). You have helped me learn a lot, and I appreciate that. I obviously was speaking from ignorance of the disease. The definitions were all I had to go on, and I should know better than to reduce a disease down to a definition.

Again, I am very sorry.

I dont know if you quoted the wrong person here or not, but regardless, its alright. No offense taken, and to anyone else thats read this or will read it, I wasnt trying to be a politically correct a-hole. I was actually just passing on some advice that someone on a different mental health site who's been mentally ill almost her whole life (shes in her 40s or 50s) said. Thats all.

[KarenSue]

Yes, I did get confused, Junk and tom. Thank you for your understanding, and thanks to all here who have enlightened me. Ignorance of things can be very dangerous, or at least offensive to others "in the know". I misspoke horrendously, yet you all have been so kind to educate me. I can't express how thankful I am to you all. I will use the lessons I learned here.

Thank you all again.

[SoScorpio]

Thanks for all your help guys. I certainly didn't mean to start a PC or labelling fight here. I generally go out of my way to keep my words neutral, but I had forgotten about the whole "identity-first" vs "person-first" thing. Personally I wouldn't really care if someone called me "an anxious person" instead of "a person with anxiety." Partly because it does define a big part of who I am, but I don't assume that someone saying it that way thinks there's nothing else to my personality. I am an anxious person, sometimes a depressed person, often an obsessed person, but also a kind person, a loyal person, an open-minded person, and a bunch of other things.
Anyway, what you should and shouldn't call people seems to be changing every day, I admit I don't go out of my way to keep up with it.
I'm glad that most of you understand that I didn't mean anything by it though. I just didn't think, because the issue at hand here is the behavior and my reactional behavior, not the labels.

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