Effects of personality traits

This is what I got...as I mentioned optimism before I think this test might be more relevant than Meyers Briggs

This isnt a really surprising result. 4s core fear pretty much is feeling... diffferent and misunderstood. They feel cut off from the rest of humanity in a way, like they will not be accepted for who they truly are. In order to fight this fear of not being accepted they tend to try to differentiate themselves from othersz more in a ‘if they are not going to accept me- then I will best them to the punch’

Its one of probably the most creative and intellectual of the types. Also, easily also tends to be one of the most self aware- if not THE MOST self aware. Tend to really understand who they are.

And lol getting into tri-types.

469 is the seeker. Which also, is far from a surprising result. (And also my tritype as well- though I am a 9 core (aka the type that runs away from their problems and denies they exist until- oh crap! Things are REALLY bad!))

Anyways. The seeker type.

“Enneagram Tritype 469 - The Seeker
469 Seeker Archetype

If you are 469, you are intuitive, inquisitive and accepting. You want to be original, certain and peaceful. You are a very sensitive and can experience intense feelings of self-doubt and uncertainty. As a result you need multiple sources of confirmation. You want to be individualistic but can fear being separate from others.

Your life mission is to raise the questions pertaining to the mysteries of life and share your findings with others. A true seeker, you are happiest when you feel you can answer the question of who you are.

You can be so focused on your feelings, insecurities and doubts that you can feel paralyzed by the fear of making the wrong decision and of being misled or duped.

The 469 is a seeker with a lot of self doubt. There is always more to learn when you are this tritype but the desire is to develop a philosophy. the 6 and 4 have the most self doubt along with the 9. The 4 doubts their feelings, the 6 their thoughts. 6s want reassurance, 4s want praise to offset their natural tendency to be shame sensitive. The 4 leading is more concerned with the Who am I question and hopes to ‘someday’ have that answered through constant introspection and referencing their own feelings. I can only speak from my own lens and say that the 6 leading is less identity focused. Who Am I doesn’t enter the picture like the 4, and less reliance on needing to set themselves apart to resolve the philosophical dilemma.”

4s mbti type most frequently as INFJs and INFPs. Followed closely by ISFPs and then probably ENFPs. Though any mbti type can *theoretically* be attached to any enneagram type.

MBTI tends to be... something that you are born with. Its hard to explain, but enneagram tends to be believed to be connected to inner woundedness (aka, everyones parents/environment mess them up in SOME way- and so the ego well... reacts to it)

Im a 9. Titled the “peacemaker” and a positive outlook type. 7 is also a positive outlook type. (And 2 as well... but not talking about 2)

Anyways. Positive outlook types- its not as glamorous as it sounds. It means basically- out of a desperation for the world around you to remain positive- you force it to be in some ways. (Thats more 2- direct force is- 9 and 7 tend to be less direct)

9 runs from their problems. Oh that guy is being nasty to me- “not a big deal, its all fine”. Oh that guy is threatening to hurt me “well Im sure hes just kidding.” Oh that guy is lighting my house on fire... huh... maybe I should have done something about that.

9s number one fear is conflict. So in order to avoid it- they “pretend” everything is fine and escape into a place of “manufactured calm”.

7. 7 escapes elsewhere. 7 is more.

Oh that guy is being nasty to me. “Hey, hey, buddy- do you want to go do something fun with me? Want to do this this this or this thing! Lets leave this place of misery and escape somewhere better! There HAS to be somewhere better!”

7s- which can be wrong and is just a stereotype- are generally known as the “fun guy” of the enneagram. Their core fear is of... missing out. Of really- just being in pain. That there are so many things out there that they cant do it all. ThT there is always something better around the corner- and that if they dont look for it, then they risk being trapped and stuck in their own pain.

Anyways. Hah. This type also tends to be extroverted and most commonly found around people who mbti type as ESTP, ESFP, ENTP, and ENFP.

Though can be found around EXXJ types and IXFJ types.

Intersting....I don’t think of myself as extroverted but I’m getting closer to that....the people in my life take priority over other activities like reading. The bf says I’m not introverted and that he would have gone running if I were that quiet.i wonder if my social anxiety is all that keeps me from being truly extroverted......

I'm an ENTJ and my Enneagram type is type 8, which will surprise literally none of the folks who have been here for awhile and remember me when I was active here.

My personality does influence things, I think it's why I'm so hostile when my psychosis goes in a paranoid direction. I have more thoughts but I can't really catch them right now and I want to read more of this thread too.

Yep. 8 is probably the most common type for ENTJs (and ESTPs and ESTJs) and to a lesser extent INTJs (though INTJs most commonly tend to be 5s). That and 3 are common for ENTJ

8 and ENTJ pretty much go together like peas and carrots. If you were like a 4 and an ENTJ- then... well that would just be odd/uncommon.

8s arent always aggressive- they can get a bad rep for that- but they usually ARE outspoken. 8s can actually be really protective of the people that they care about- in a “I will defend those who cannot or will not defend themselves”. They arent always like that, but sometimes that enneagram gets a reputation for being a bully/being pushy- when really, there is more to it than that.

They are usually very dynamic people who have a strong will and are not afraid to seek out what they want.

Yeah, that describes me fairly well.

I'm very outspoken in general and when I'm psychotic is when you see the darker things you described come out, the aggression, being ruthless and unforgiving, among others.

Mhm. 8s definitely tend to have a temper- anger being something they are familiar with. Also, they tend to come across as VERY confident- even when they might not necessarily feel that way internally (though often-times they ARE as confident as they come off as being).

But healthy 8s really do have the potential to be powerful leaders- as they tend not to shy away from external problems. (Internal ones might frustrate them- but if someone does something to them irl, you can BET they are going to say something/do something/stick up for themselves)

************

One of the more interesting things is that- health levels are something enneagram accounts for. Its what makes me appreciate it more than MBTI- because it doesnt ignore things like... the effects of maturity, mental health, ect on how a person comes off. You are always the same enneagram BUT- you might deal with things differently depending on how healthy you are.

Heres 8s different levels- top is healthiest, bottom least. Most people DO move along the health levels just... through life. Its rare for someone to constantly be at one level.

Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Become self-restrained and magnanimous, merciful and forbearing, mastering self through their self-surrender to a higher authority. Courageous, willing to put self in serious jeopardy to achieve their vision and have a lasting influence. May achieve true heroism and historical greatness.

Level 2: Self-assertive, self-confident, and strong: have learned to stand up for what they need and want. A resourceful, "can do" attitude and passionate inner drive.

Level 3: Decisive, authoritative, and commanding: the natural leader others look up to. Take initiative, make things happen: champion people, provider, protective, and honorable, carrying others with their strength.

Average Levels

Level 4: Self-sufficiency, financial independence, and having enough resources are important concerns: become enterprising, pragmatic, "rugged individualists," wheeler-dealers. Risk-taking, hardworking, denying own emotional needs.

Level 5: Begin to dominate their environment, including others: want to feel that others are behind them, supporting their efforts. Swaggering, boastful, forceful, and expansive: the "boss" whose word is law. Proud, egocentric, want to impose their will and vision on everything, not seeing others as equals or treating them with respect.

Level 6: Become highly combative and intimidating to get their way: confrontational, belligerent, creating adversarial relationships. Everything a test of wills, and they will not back down. Use threats and reprisals to get obedience from others, to keep others off balance and insecure. However, unjust treatment makes others fear and resent them, possibly also band together against them.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: Defying any attempt to control them, become completely ruthless, dictatorial, "might makes right." The criminal and outlaw, renegade, and con-artist. Hard-hearted, immoral and potentially violent.

Level 8: Develop delusional ideas about their power, invincibility, and ability to prevail: megalomania, feeling omnipotent, invulnerable. Recklessly over-extending self.

Level 9: If they get in danger, they may brutally destroy everything that has not conformed to their will rather than surrender to anyone else. Vengeful, barbaric, murderous. Sociopathic tendencies. Generally corresponds to the Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Of course, this stuff is all theory. I dabble in it for fun, because I find it interesting. But yeah, its all just theory.

More reliable than like... astronomy... less than “real mental health testing”

But interesting none the less

Oh cool @Under*Over I’m 469 as well but 4(w3) is my main type. It is a really frustrating combination to be... all the uncertainty... I thought I was a feeler for the longest time and only recently it occurred to me that I am probably actually ENTP. Just with this tritype (plus sx-first) I come across as such a feeler.

People are pretty wary of my temper and I understand why, I can be intimidating even when I'm not angry.

I've never lacked confidence, at least not on the outside. Even if I have internal doubts, it doesn't show externally and I plow through whatever it is anyways. It's very difficult to actually stop me once my mind is set on any given goal.

When my schizophrenia isn't so active I'm usually at levels 2, 3, and 4. When I'm actively psychotic though I can easily sink down to those last three levels and I have in the past.

Mmmhm I have a good friend who is an ENTP 9. Makes him seem much more like a feeler- an ENTP 4, would seem even more so.

The cognitive functions of ENTP are Ne, Ti, Fe, and Si- and preference for usage is generally in that order.

Ne equals “extroverted intuition”- meaning that you see and make connections with it in the external wold.

Ne is often credited as being the ‘most creative function’ and intuition in general is often associated to 4. And since Fe is “extroverted feeling” it and Ne for you tend to be the faces that you show to the world- what people see when they look at you (vs Ti and Si (introverted thinking and introverted sensing) which tend to be how you see and process the world internally))

ENTP 4 is mid rare probably. 4 tends to be associated with introverts and feeling types. But its possible. A lot less rare than an ENTJ 4 who has feeling as their VERY LAST function.

But yeah. Its a cool type to be really. 964/469 can be a type probe to self doubt and “analysis paralysis” but... it can also be a type full of self understanding and ‘self truths’ all that kind of stuff too.

Anyways. I posted 8s health levels so here are 4s.

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Type Four—Levels of Development

Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Profoundly creative, expressing the personal and the universal, possibly in a work of art. Inspired, self-renewing and regenerating: able to transform all their experiences into something valuable: self-creative.

Level 2: Self-aware, introspective, on the "search for self," aware of feelings and inner impulses. Sensitive and intuitive both to self and others: gentle, tactful, compassionate.

Level 3: Highly personal, individualistic, "true to self." Self-revealing, emotionally honest, humane. Ironic view of self and life: can be serious and funny, vulnerable and emotionally strong.

Average Levels

Level 4: Take an artistic, romantic orientation to life, creating a beautiful, aesthetic environment to cultivate and prolong personal feelings. Heighten reality through fantasy, passionate feelings, and the imagination.

Level 5: To stay in touch with feelings, they interiorize everything, taking everything personally, but become self-absorbed and introverted, moody and hypersensitive, shy and self-conscious, unable to be spontaneous or to "get out of themselves." Stay withdrawn to protect their self-image and to buy time to sort out feelings.

Level 6: Gradually think that they are different from others, and feel that they are exempt from living as everyone else does. They become melancholy dreamers, disdainful, decadent, and sensual, living in a fantasy world. Self-pity and envy of others leads to self-indulgence, and to becoming increasingly impractical, unproductive, effete, and precious.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function.

Level 8: Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them.

Level 9: Despairing, feel hopeless and become self-destructive, possibly abusing alcohol or drugs to escape. In the extreme: emotional breakdown or suicide is likely. Generally corresponds to the Avoidant, Depressive, and Narcissistic personality disorders.

Introversion and extraversion aren't about how sociable you are, though many people think it is. It's about how you acquire your energy and what drains you. Extraverts acquire energy from being around people and in new environments, and lose energy spending time alone. Introverts are the other way around.

It's to do with baseline levels of cortical arousal - I forget the brain region - extraverts have much lower baseline arousal levels than introverts so they have to seek out stimulation in the form of people and new things. Introverts have much higher baseline arousal levels and so lots of people and busy environments gets exhausting after a while.

There are socially 'quiet' extraverts and 'sociable' introverts, so it really doesn't predict how you will behave when socialising, just how frequently you want to socialise and how you feel afterwards. One of my brothers is a classic extravert, but my other brother is a 'quiet' extravert. He is very much an extravert, but he's not the life and soul of the party like my other brother is.

I often don't come across as introverted as I am because I'm not often the quiet mouse hiding in the corner of the kitchen at a party. But socialising, no matter how much I've enjoyed it, exhausts me, so I am very much an introvert. I also think that I've become much more introverted as I've gotten older/since everything changed 11 years ago.

*Willow*

Thanks Under*Over for posting about Enneagram. I've come across it before, but it really doesn't resonate with me in the way that my MBTI type does. I just don't relate to the results I get. I can't remember what I got last time I did it, but I did the test you posted and really struggled with some of the statements because neither of them fit, so that will affect the results.

I'm interested though as to what effect therapy would have on your enneagram type? If you worked through your core fears, could you theoretically eliminate them and change number?? I looked at schemas a few years ago, and they have definitely changed over the years due to work I have done on myself.

You said that MBTI type doesn't take into account how healthy you are, but I've been reading about how you can mature by strengthening your inferior functions. I believe that I have definitely been doing that, inadvertently, over the years and so am more 'balanced' now than I was. Although, obviously, there's still work to be done!

*Willow*

Off topic, but it's really good to see you, Atypical!

*Willow*

This is a really good way to put it and I find that so completely relatable lol. Story of my life right there. I have been called a "navel gazer" among other things. I like to think that a person's greatest weakness is also the key to their greatest strength, and this is no different.

It's good to see you also, Willow. Hugs

Me too! Whilst a lot of my experiences have been very negative, they've also given me a greater level of compassion and understanding for others. For example, I think that I was much better at helping to care for my grandfather when he had dementia because I could relate to his fear and confusion about not being sure if he could trust his own mind. And I'm really grateful to have had that opportunity to be there for him, which I wouldn't have been able to do had I been the successful Dr working all of those hours that I would've/could've/should've been had everything not changed 11 years ago.

*Willow*

Its been theorized that inferior functions tend to come out in times of stress. Akak, enXps, whose inferior function is Si- start over-eating/start feeling trapped/start having phantom pains/ect. Same with any other type

A really good book for reading about that is “Was that really me” by Naomi Quenk.

The difference between Mbti and enneagram that I really appreicate is that... there are just a lot of really poor type descriptions out there and there is a real problem with people over typing as ‘intuitive’ because most mbti type descriptions make intuitives out to be the ‘superior’ creative types and make sensors out to be the boring ordinary type- when really, everyone uses all functions- it is just a matter of preference.

Plus, there are all sorts of things that can happen to people to affect how their type presents of course- mbti does allow for that- there are ‘loops’ and like I said- inferior function reactions- that can explain variations in how someone comes off... but enneagram just offers another reason why.

I do appreciate mbti, I just think its something that- is made a ton fuller when attached to enneagram-allows you to really understand those “whys” in a more complete way.

Its like... mbti is the structure/bones of someones type- something that describes how they see the world at core- through their dominant function parented by their aux function- and enneagram just explains- who they decide to be and why with what their mbti already is. Its why you dont see a lot of odd mbti and enneagram combinations- because- if you are already cognitively extroverted... well its less likely that you would naturally fall victim to some of the more introverted fears represented by intoverted enneagram types. Generally its believed that MBTI is innate- but enneagram results from you- you and your mbti types reaction to your early environment.

I just enjoy studying enneagram more personally because I enjoy the ‘whys’ imo- its just a more flexible system than mbti- and therefore theres more of a human element- which my Fi/Ne appreciates.

But yeah no. You couldnt change your enneagram type BUT- there is a theory of integration levels/disintigration levels- where if you get healthy enough you could take on traits of other enneagram types. Like 9s disintigrate to 6- so when Im stressed out I tend to take on 6 ‘anxious/neurotic traits’ and they intigrate to 3- so when Im healthier I tend to take on more of 3s ‘ambitious and self championing’ traits. It doesnt mean you become those types- just that you are healthy/or unhealthy enough that you are dealing with your core fear ‘aka- I am nothing/nobody. I have no voice’ in a way that LOOKs like the way another type might look like going to three ‘I feel like I have no voice but now I feel healthy enough to start giving myself a voice’. (3 being known as the ‘ambitious type’- when 9 is healthy enough to feel like they can have a say- well- they work on it in a very 3 way. It doesnt make them 3s but... just very healthy 9s)

Intigration/disintigration is tough though really. I honestly dont fully understand it myself- always more to learn- (especially since there are things like tri-types and wings). I dont want to be super confusing ot anything but- I do love talking about this stuff.

I find it interesting- a hobby I guess you would call it hah.

I had not taken an Enneagram test! I did the quick, online version and got type 5 w/6 secondary.
I hate that the description sounds flighty to me, even though it claims to be observant. :P
It was fun to read about the types.

Hah 5s really arent flighty- its the most intellectual type. Most often attached to INTJ and INTP (hah like... Id say AT LEAST 80% of both of those types end up typing as 5s) and then ISTP/ISTJ/ENTP.

These types tend to escape outer world concerns (thog this is more 5w4 than 5w6- 5w6 tends to be more responsible/practical than 5w4) through study/intellectualism. These are the types of people who know the most obscure facts/tend to be the ‘experts’ on a variety of topics. They tend to ‘become experts’ because they are afraid of being anything less- are afraid of being called out as incompetnent/slow/stupid so they literally surround themselves with knowledge.

Type is very much attached to introverted thinking types.

This really is the best website imo for enneagram descriptions. I should have linked it from the start. Because Im not super fond of the descriptions that that test gives. Reason I linked it was because it was short and I didnt want anyone to be there for like an hour taking this test... but those descriptions... not a fan.

These are better

https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-5/

Thanks Under*Over. I get what you're saying about it providing another aspect to MBTI, but the short tests never give me a meaningful result that I can relate to. Would a longer test be more accurate? Such as the one on that Enneagram Institute website you linked to? If so, I will try to do it at some point in the next few days.

*Willow*

You are right. A person's weakness is often their greatest strength. I always feared ignorance, so i began to read, and read more and more, and then went to college to get a college degree with the intention to get a Phd and teach philosophy.

My friend's greatest fear is to be alone (he was an only child), so he studied psychology to understand people, and when he found no future in that he then became a stand up comedian, and he revels being on stage, you can see how much he enjoys it in his hungering eyes.

I have countless other examples but the basic ruling principle is that when a person realizes their weakest flaw that brings them sadness, they often make it their life's mission to becoming almost a jungian archtype that conquers that flaw.

A simpler example that can be more recoqnizable is seen within the dating game. Often, one is attracted to a quality that another hasn't acheived yet, but yearns for. So they attach themselves to them hoping to gain that lost part of themself.

Definitely. In Jungian terms, it’s all about the unconscious influence of the inferior cognitive style/function. We are so weak to that influence and seek to master it in order to conquer our weakness. It’s like an Achilles heel.

I think of this a lot around this forum as relating to the whole “transference” concept. We have a natural compulsion towards seeking feedback along the lines of our weakest cognitive style. When we don’t get that, it can breed obsession as we are unaware of what exactly we are even seeking and it is subconscious, so instead we try to solve it with our more natural, conscious style of thought.

As an ENTP I have definitely always been vulnerable to strong Si types, especially XSXJs and also INXPs. Both romantically and just in general, they impact me a lot with little effort.

I have a lot of trouble connecting to my internal experience and try too hard to stay in control of my body with my conscious thoughts. When I see people who are really good at that I’m always astounded by how they can be so calm and balanced and self-present all the time. Always wished I could learn to be like that in order to ground my endless thought trains.

I'm definitely still thinking about this in the background of my day to day life (which is another thing that's 'weird' in that no one I know IRL does this - and it's categorically NOT 'worrying', which is what I often get accused of. Don't get me wrong, I definitely DO worry at times, but I often mull over things, even things like TV programme storylines (!), from multiple angles for days/weeks if it piques my interest too and that's not the same as 'worrying' IMO.)

There ARE a lot of poor type descriptions out there, so I found reading about the actual cognitive functions for my MBTI type helpful in confirming to myself that it is a meaningful description. <- That's the important bit to me - is it meaningful/useful to me?! I don't like boxes, I really rail against them. I think that human beings are too complex to be put in boxes. Maybe that's because I didn't fit neatly into psych boxes and so I was treated really badly because of that, and if they had used a person-centred approach and treated ME rather than trying to squash me into some stupid box, that wouldn't have happened. And there's also a lot of black/white thinking that the type is gospel rather than a personal preference and you can use any type if you really want/need to, so people need to bear that in mind too.

But I guess that I like MBTI because, well, 1) I like 'navel-gazing' about these sorts of things! And, 2) I relate to the INFJ type and that makes me think that, even if I don't know anyone IRL that's similar to me, there must be other people out there that see things the way that I do. Honestly, I feel like such an outsider at times because I have no one who wants to have deeper conversations about things - I'm happy to chat about most anything, but others only seem to want to discuss things superficially for a minute or so and then change the topic, and I'm just left wanting...more. Or I get told off for 'worrying' about something that I'm not worrying about, because they don't think deeply about things like I do.

And I'm tired of being stigmatised by others for my experiences because they don't understand that I cope with them in a different way, so either I'm lying about what I experience, or I'm hugely exaggerating because the way I respond doesn't fit their stereotype of how I'm 'supposed' to behave. And then that makes me feel like I'm so alone because nobody truly understands me or sees the world in a similar way to me. Don't get me wrong, I really like who I am and the way that I see the world...but it does get lonely a lot of the time

I did an Enneagram tri-type test last weekend. It was somewhat more relatable than the single number BUT I'm wondering if that's because you are given 3 numbers which then integrate/disintegrate to 6 other numbers, and there's only 9 numbers! And if you factor in wings too, then you basically have a flavour of almost/every number, which could explain anyone! I'm intending to do some more reading when I have some spare time because I find all of this stuff interesting, but I'm not yet convinced it is meaningful to me right now. That's JMO right now though.

Also I have some questions about the MBTI cognitive functions, if you are happy to try to explain it a bit more to me? Some of the cognitive functions explanations get a bit complicated for me, so I was hoping for concrete examples, if you're able?

- INFJ has Se has it's inferior function. In terms of how that differs to Si, does the introverted function mean that it comes from within you, vs outside of you with extraverted functions?? So a mindfulness example of Si could be meditating on your breath, whilst an example of Se could be when I take photos of things that interest me, right? (Incidentally, I absolutely HATE meditating like that, whereas I find mindfulness in terms of being in the moment experiencing the world around me very calming, so I've been wondering if that's Si vs Se?)

- Is Fe the feelings of others vs Fi your own feelings? Because that would make sense as I'm much better at knowing what others are feeling than being able to label my own feelings, which never made sense before I read about MBTI functions because I thought that if I can understand emotions well enough, it shouldn't matter whether they are mine or other peoples...

- I also really don't understand how intuitions are experienced differently in terms of Ne vs Ni, and I'd also appreciate a concrete example of Ti vs Te (is Te a preference for 'thinking out loud'?)

Anyway, sorry for the massive post! I'm basically thinking out loud again.

*Willow*