Sexual pleasure from abuse (warning: somewhat explicit)

Used the trigger icon just in case...

So last session my T asked me to try and remember if I experienced any pleasure from the abuse. While still in session I said no, not that I recall, no way, never, etc. etc. He said ok, but try and remember if there was (part of my homework for the week). So I've been trying. Hating it, but trying and remembering. As much as I hate to admit it, yes there was some. Just a few flashes, but definitely there. I remember him coming from behind me and wrapping one arm around me and touching me down there with the other and yes, I remember some pleasure. f*c*ity f**k.

So anyway, this morning I googled "sexual pleasure from abuse" and came accross this website: net-burst.net/hope/abuse_pleasure.htm

In reading this s**t, I came across this:



Now, I am not into abusing others, nor am I promiscuous. In fact, I'm the opposite. I hate sex. I hate anything to do with sex (well, sometimes I don't, I mean, I am pregnant, after all), but it's the exception, not the rule. The whole point of me starting therapy was because of my lack of sexual desire. My hubby couldn't take it anymore, and I couldn't take being this way to him anymore (frigid).

Anyway, the quote above is me to a tee. It's somewhat comforting to know that I am sort-of normal. All of my sexual fantasies and turn-ons revolve around sick and twisted s**t. After all these years I did think I was a bit of a freak for being this way, but as soon as the thought of being sick entered my mind I just pushed it away and ignored it. I would use these deviant fantasies to masturbate (and used hardcore porn-the light stuff never did it for me), do the deed, and then I'd feel extremely sick about myself and my deviant fantasies that I never, ever shared with anyone. My hubby doesn't know, nor would I ever tell him. Then I'd try and forget about it until the urge struck again next time. In the meantime sex was (and still is) a struggle and a duty. My T is trying to help me gwt over this with babysteps. Yes, sometimes sex felt good, but I never had an orgasm with a partner and mostly just waited for it to be over with while trying to pretend I was enjoying it. It was only ever after drinking (usually) and once in a while that I'd get kind of nasty with a partner and feel true pleasure (which still made me feel dirty and nasty and sick and twisted and gross). Even just remembering this and writing it down makes me feel sick.

And now this is where I find myself in married life: all of my sexual pleasure only comes from feelings of being powerless (though I HATE being tied up/playing bondage games), being dominated (surprise surprise), being abused, being forced-upon without will or consent. And i's all only in my mind (like I said, I'll never tell my hubby about this). I don't get any sexual pleasure from feelings of love, warmth, caring, affection, etc, in REAL life from my husband. It's like the two feelings (sexual pleasure and love) are separate and can't cross in my mind. There is no bridge between sexual pleasure and love. I like feelings of love and affection, I crave them. But they don't correlate to sexual anything in me. No urges, desire, drive, responses. Nothing. Power, dominance, a bit of hurt maybe, abuse and force on the other hand, provide all the stimulus I need. I am one sick puppy. But apparently normal. There is comfort in that.

Now, how the hell do I bridge the gap between the two dichotomies? I really don't want to admit to this s**t in therapy. I feel like it's just too embarrassing. At the same time I want to learn how to have sexual feelings from love and affection. I want to put away the shame and embarrassment and have real relations with my husband. I also don't want to traumatize my therapist...he's new and just starting out as a therapist...I don't know if he's dealt with this stuff before (he does have a supervisor though, and I'm sure she's dealt with everything). I also have this compulsive feeling he'd be laughing at me...which I know doesn't make sense, and I do trust him but there's just this pervasive feeling that this is just too much for anyone to handle...including him. Deep down I KNOW he wouldn't laugh at me and probably just be really sympathetic; that it's just me projecting my own feelings of shame on him, because I am the one that laughs at everything in session, whenever stuff gets too hard. It's my defense. instead of crying I laugh when in actuality, crying would probably do me a lot more good.

This is a bit of a revealtion for me; an insight. I always knew I had these weird sexual fantasies but I never related it to what happened to me. And I always tried o ignore what it meant to me to have them and derive pleasure form them. In truth, I never related much of how I am today to what happened to me back then. I guess that was just part of trying to ignore it and hoping it would go away. All these "clues" that I've had all my life are all related back to the abuse that I tried so hard to stamp out of memory. Abuse that I always told myself "wasn't that bad." I did actually tell my T this last session, that it "wasn't that bad" and he wrote it down and said that most victims try to minimize the abuse which helps minimize the pain, shame, embarassment, etc. He said it doesn't work. Obviously not, if here I am in therapy 15 years after the fact.

I have 7 1/2 more months to get my s**t together before the baby comes (unless I miscarry). I really hope I can do it.

Thanks for listening everyone. And sorry, I swear a lot. I don't know why..it makes it seem more real, I guess. Also, I love my T and he is so real. He refers to my abuse sometimes as the s**t, or the "s**t that happened to me". Last time we were talking about something and he said, "well, you had all these feelings of lonliness and at the same time you had all this other s**t happening to you at home". That stuck with me. It just makes it more real, more down-to-earth. It's demystified and not intellectualized when talked about that way. In my experience anyway. Maybe he's just reading me and knows that this is a better way to connect with me, but in any case, it works.

Please know that you are not sick or weird in any way what so ever.... what you are is a person trying to deal with the sexual abuse you suffered from in the past... and yes, sadly the coping often comes out in strange sexual behavior or fantasies - most of the people that have been sexually abused understands what you are going through.

I understand as I was once were you are now - and the best advice I can give is for you to open up completely in therapy so your T can truly help you... I found that it was easier for me to talk about certain sexual abuse and fantasies if I wrote them down on paper for my T to read then when she knew the sickness I tried to keep secret the path was open for us to talk about what other people had done to me and my mind.

((( HUGS )))

OMG. You have no idea how much that makes me feel better knowing someone else was where i am and got through it!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!!!

And actually, it's funny that you mentioned it because I was thinking myself that maybe writing it down would be easier because I really don't know if I can actually get the words out yet I know how much he needs to know so that I can through this s**t. Thank you so much again-I think I will do that...if I may ask, what did you do then? Give the writing to your t at the beginning of the session or at the end? Part of me thinks the end would be good cause then I wouldn't have to be there when he reads it but then i would DREAD the next session cause i would know that he read it. but then giving it to him at the beginning of the session would hurt because I'd have to sit there in misery and embarassment while he reads it but then at least it would be over with and I wouldn't have to wait a week to see his response.

What to do???? I'm so nervous about this. And he can really help me? And he won't be disgusted or traumatized? I'm so afraid he'll think I'm disgusting. Although in my mind I'm pretty sure he won't but still...

Thanks again so much!!!!!!!!!

I personally gave it to my T at the beginning of the session as I wanted to start on the things I had written down.... but if it would be easier for you to give it to your T at the end of the session with the agreement that you will pick up with what you had written down at your next session then that is ok.... the important thing here is that the secrets are out, then they can no longer control you as they once did.

And NO your T will not be disgusted or traumatized... your T has been trained in this field and understand how the wounded mind works.

((( HUGS ))) - ((( HUGS )))

I'm sure your therapist won't judge you negatively. I've heard of people who were sexually traumatized, yet fantasizing about the same kind of abuse they suffered. Your therapist probably is quite familiar with it.

You think so? I have to admit I worry because I really like my t and don't want to change but he has already mentioned that i might need someone more specialized in trauma/sexual abuse issues (he is new to counseling and is finishing up his master's). I fear that if i tell him about this stuff, he may just make up his mind that it's beyond his scope and refer me to someone else. Am i being unreasonable by wanting to stay with him? We talked about it briefly last session and I told him that I wanted to stay with him unless he thought it was necessary that i see someone else. He said okay, as long as I know there are other options, and also that he can sit in with myself and another therapist if need be (I go to a family counseling place where there are multiple therapists). Thanks for the replies!

Perhaps you could see him and someone who specializes in trauma/sexual abuse, but see each one alternately, or limit one more than the other, according to what you can afford?

I find the only person who is negatively judgmental in my session is me!

I remind myself to define the relationship:

• me/client/patient/receives services I pay for

• she/pdoc/therapist/provides services I pay for

Experience has taught me that I do better after telling those deep secrets...freedom from bondage of self!!

Foomph, I'm glad you spoke up. I understand and know the website you mentioned. I wish you the best with everything, especially your pregnancy.

Foomph,
I'm struggling with this issue too. Especially the feeling "dirty and nasty and sick and twisted and gross" if some part of me does actually become aroused. Several months ago I attempted to express this to my T, hoping that as Rap mentioned I could get some help dealing with it. It was a very awkward thing to attempt to present. I think my T actually got what I was saying, didn't judge it, but unfortunately wasn't very helpful. At this point I haven't ventured back to this issue and I am reluctant to raise it again.

It is very sad that this specific issue is not discussed more often and brought out. My wife was abused by several members of her family. Unfortunately, some of the time with one specific abuser, she experienced pleasure and even wanted it. For this reason she lived with so much guilt that it caused her to become chemically dependent, affecting her mental health and a severe sexual addict while at the same time unable to be intimate with me, her spouse of 20 years. All these years of therapy, time spent in facilities and countless stacks of books, the subject was never brought up and her sexual addiction undiagnosed (kept hidden in the closet).

It was not until last summer while we were on a long road trip talking that I tentatively, and with great anxiety asked her about it based on mannerisms and actions over the years that brought it to mind (at the time I had done no research on it and it never entered my mind). It took about two hours of discussing it and me reassuring her that it was not something she should be remorseful over that she finally confided in me.

The hardest part, no matter how much evidence and support I & her therapist have backing us up, she still is so hard on herself about it. It breaks my heart and saddens me to think that if 23 years ago when we meet, if it had been addressed then, how much of our life would we not have missed.

Anyone who is feeling any guilt over this issue, I wish there was some word or action I could do to convince you that you are "ok" and to just let the chains go. I know that its easy to say but to actually release is so much more. Just know that you are not alone and many of us out here who have not gone through anything still support you.

((((((((Foomph))))))))))))))

I understand. And actually, I thank you for bringing it up because it makes me feel more "normal" too...

I say go for it and tell your T about it. No matter how hard it is, it's worse to keep it bottled up inside and not to deal with it. Just take as much time as you need, and no you don't need to have it all dealt with by the time the baby comes - you can still have therapy afterwards, it'll just be a bit more complicated. Write it down, bring it to session. It's awkward waiting for a T to read things, but it's less anxiety than giving it at the end of session and dreading the next session when you'd be talking about it!

I laugh things off too. I'm also incredibly sarcastic. I really hate crying, but it would be a lot more useful to not hide behind masks to deal with stuff.

You won't "break" T or traumatize him or have him think you're gross/weird/whatever... If he's not used to it yet, he'll eventually learn that people come with a lot of different issues and problems and he's got to try to help. If he can't he may refer you elsewhere, but you CAN see two Ts at once... I've done it. It's a lot more complicated sometimes, but useful if your T doesn't have abuse training.

Thank you So much. It's so true. I have SO much guilt over this s**t and I blame myself over and over and I have to sop if I want to get better. T is working with me on it.

Christina, I never did end up bringing it up with T (well not in much detail anyway). I worked on the letter for him for a week and had it in my bag for 2, and never got up the guts to give it to him. Aside from that though, he has helped me make some progress! I heart him.

I don't feel quite so sick and twisted about this now as i did when I originally posted this.

Thanks for the replies!

That's too bad, Chaotic. My T knows it all. Actually, HE'S the on that brought it up and suggested I check my unconcious for this type of thing.

I think I'm really, really fortunate that I have my T. Since he's not quite finished his master's yet he's so fresh from school, keen and our session are videotaped and he reviews them between sessions. he really gets me and I'm impressed (I have to admit I was skeptical when i found out he was still a student).

In any case, you could maybe bring it up again having done some research on the subject, and ask her opinions on things without relating it directly to you....then ,maybe the convo would come to you and your experiences.

I never actually discussed *too much* regarding pleasure in abuse, but have touched on it. Also-he has told so many things about what happens to your psyche and stuff when that does happen and how it affects your development which has been tremendously helpful.

Thankyou so much for this post and link. I think it may explain a lot of why I hate myself so much.

I actually do this as well...

You're not sick or twisted.
Or alone.
x