the dangers of nonoxynol-9

hamster-bamster · May 30, 2013 at 09:01 PM

I thought that it has long been outlawed, but I stumbled upon VCF contraceptive film looking for prescription drugs on walmart's pharmacy website.

It has not been outlawed.

Not only do spermicides prevent pregnancy solely in otherwise infertile women (in my experience), they increase the transmission rate of HIV - lovely.

From National Public Radio:

What Spermicide Users Should Know, But Often Don't : Shots - Health News : NPR

Anyway, I have never seen it mentioned on here so probably everyone is in the know already, but I thought I'd post.

Seriously I thought it was recalled more than a decade ago.

LiteraryLark · May 30, 2013 at 09:12 PM

Why would spermicide be believed to prevent HIV? And why would anyone by a product that can affect PREGNANCY or STD's and not read the damn directions? Seriously?

You should ALWAYS read the directions of any sexual products, no matter how "experienced" you are.

hamster-bamster · May 30, 2013 at 09:16 PM

The point is that it INCREASES the chances of HIV transmission. Nor does it prevent pregnancy, in my experience, unless, again, you are infertile to begin with or your male partner is infertile to begin with, but if somebody is infertile to begin with, it is both a waste of money to buy spermicide and a risk factor for HIV transmission.

If something INCREASES the chances of HIV transmission, it should not be on supermarket shelves - this is not a caveat emptor situation.

LiteraryLark · May 30, 2013 at 09:21 PM

Well if you had HIV you wouldn't be using spermicide in the first place.

edit: The point of spermicide is to stop the sperm from moving and reaching the egg. If you have HIV, you wouldn't want any sperm at all to enter the vagina so you would be wearing a condom, and you don't use spermicide and condoms together. Also, the article and planned parenthood said that spermicide can cause skin irritation if used multiple times a day, so if you are someone who has sex frequently, you'd need to use another form of birth control. Again, that's why you research before choosing a product and read the directions to make sure it's the right one for you.

hamster-bamster · May 30, 2013 at 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSkipper

you don't use spermicide and condoms together

if you use spermicide alone and are otherwise healthy, you end up pregnant, so there is no point in using spermicide alone

LiteraryLark · May 30, 2013 at 10:33 PM

You are not supposed to use spermicide alone. You are supposed to use it with a female condom. If women always use spermicide as directed, 15 out of 100 will become pregnant each year.

I'm not going to argue it any further, as everything I've learned I've learned from the article above and the planned parenthood article. Why argue about it if you're not stating any facts. The point I'm trying to make is to read the directions.

Spermicide Effectiveness - Spermicides

hamster-bamster · May 30, 2013 at 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSkipper

If women always use spermicide as directed, 15 out of 100 will become pregnant each year.

To me, that means you would end up pregnant. I do not use protection that is less than 99% effective. 15 out to 100 is a HUGE RISK.

So there is no point - it is like playing Russian roulette.

LiteraryLark · May 30, 2013 at 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

To me, that means you would end up pregnant. I do not use protection that is less than 99% effective. 15 out to 100 is a HUGE RISK.

So there is no point - it is like playing Russian roulette.

Um, the only thing that is 100% effective from getting pregnant is 1) abstinence and 2) sterilization. And sterilization isn't 100% effective from STD's, in fact not at all, so you would have to use some other form of protection on top of that. What do you use?

LiteraryLark · May 30, 2013 at 10:53 PM

I don't understand why are you bringing this up if you have no intentions of using it but only want to condemn it for it's lack of effectiveness?

hamster-bamster · May 30, 2013 at 10:58 PM

Mirena IUD + condoms - remember how to calculate the probability of two independent events co-occurring?..

LiteraryLark · May 30, 2013 at 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Mirena IUD + condoms - remember how to calculate the probability of two independent events co-occurring?..

There's still a chance, even if a fraction. It's probably the most effective but not 100% effective.

hamster-bamster · May 30, 2013 at 11:01 PM

Actually, the manufacturer's website claims that Mirena alone

is highly effective at preventing pregnancy, over 99%, and I am willing to believe it because I used it alone for many years when married without any incidents, but now that I have non-monogamous relationships, I also use condoms, which means that the effectiveness of what I use surpasses that of sterilization via tubal ligation (the old method) and has added benefits because Mirena removes menstruation and cramps and adds a bit of cancer prevention protection.

hamster-bamster · May 30, 2013 at 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSkipper

There's still a chance, even if a fraction. It's probably the most effective but not 100% effective.

the only 100% effective is the new method of female sterilization that is called essure, but Mirena+Condoms is basically the same in practical terms. Essure is completely failure-free - no reported failures in the whole history of use.

essure also far surpasses the old female sterilization via tubal ligation because it is non-invasive, outpatient, etc. etc. - basically the best possible solution if you are really sure you do not want to get pregnant. But - also completely irreversible, while tubal ligation can sometimes be reversed.

nicoleb2 · May 30, 2013 at 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Actually, the manufacturer's website claims that Mirena alone

is highly effective at preventing pregnancy, over 99%, and I am willing to believe it because I used it alone for many years when married without any incidents, but now that I have non-monogamous relationships, I also use condoms, which means that the effectiveness of what I use surpasses that of sterilization via tubal ligation (the old method) and has added benefits because Mirena removes menstruation and cramps and adds a bit of cancer prevention protection.

Look up mirena iud pregnancy and you will find many many stories of women for whom the mirena has failed. Mirena was awesome for me though, and I would definitely recommend it

hamster-bamster · May 30, 2013 at 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicoleb2

Look up mirena iud pregnancy and you will find many many stories of women for whom the mirena has failed. Mirena was awesome for me though, and I would definitely recommend it

Well, I agree that I should not have quoted the manufacturer's website since it is biased, but internet stories are not reliable either - that is for sure. Planned Parenthood which is both reliable and unbiased reports that

Less than 1 out of 100 women will get pregnant each year if they use the ParaGard or the Mirena IUD.

hamster-bamster · May 30, 2013 at 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicoleb2

Look up mirena iud pregnancy and you will find many many stories of women for whom the mirena has failed.

Most women for whom Mirena has not failed do not post internet stories but rather enjoy the convenience of worry-free sex

in their free time.

In other words, there exists a huge reporting bias when you read internet stories about anything under the sun, Mirena not excepted.

I am glad it worked so well for you.

hamster-bamster · May 31, 2013 at 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSkipper

There's still a chance, even if a fraction. It's probably the most effective but not 100% effective.

Technically speaking, everything but essure allows for a chance/fraction. technically speaking.

However, if you calculate the chance would be negligible.

Do the math and:

1) webMD: How Effective Are Male Condoms at Birth Control?

Condoms are about 85% effective for birth control. With careful use, they are even more effective.

So 0.15 probability of failure with not quite careful use.

2) Mirena - more than 99% effective per Planned Parenthood. So let us say 0.01 probability of failure.

3) the failure of condoms and the failure of IUD are independent events

4) the probability of a co-occurence is thus (because of (3) above) a product of the probabilities of individual failures

5) 0.15*0.01=0.0015. That is an underestimate because I overestimated the failure rate of both methods.

If this is not equal to 100% effectiveness for you, in practical terms, you should never drive a car.

LiteraryLark · May 31, 2013 at 12:17 PM

Common birth control is 99% effective too when used properly and women still end up pregnant.

hamster-bamster · May 31, 2013 at 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSkipper

Common birth control is 99% effective too when used properly and women still end up pregnant.

what is "common birth control"?

LiteraryLark · May 31, 2013 at 10:50 PM

I'm not arguing with you any further, considering you insist on being right.

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LiteraryLark Crowned "The Good Witch" Member Since Jun 2009 Location: Wonderland Posts: 11,535 (SuperPoster!) 14 1,318 hugs given	May 30, 2013 at 09:12 PM #2 Why would spermicide be believed to prevent HIV? And why would anyone by a product that can affect PREGNANCY or STD's and not read the damn directions? Seriously? You should ALWAYS read the directions of any sexual products, no matter how "experienced" you are.
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LiteraryLark Crowned "The Good Witch" Member Since Jun 2009 Location: Wonderland Posts: 11,535 (SuperPoster!) 14 1,318 hugs given	May 30, 2013 at 10:53 PM #9 I don't understand why are you bringing this up if you have no intentions of using it but only want to condemn it for it's lack of effectiveness?
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hamster-bamster Account Suspended Member Since Sep 2011 Location: Northern California Posts: 14,805 (SuperPoster!) 12 3,729 hugs given	May 30, 2013 at 10:58 PM #10 Mirena IUD + condoms - remember how to calculate the probability of two independent events co-occurring?..
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LiteraryLark Crowned "The Good Witch" Member Since Jun 2009 Location: Wonderland Posts: 11,535 (SuperPoster!) 14 1,318 hugs given	May 31, 2013 at 12:17 PM #18 Common birth control is 99% effective too when used properly and women still end up pregnant.
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LiteraryLark Crowned "The Good Witch" Member Since Jun 2009 Location: Wonderland Posts: 11,535 (SuperPoster!) 14 1,318 hugs given	May 31, 2013 at 10:50 PM #20 I'm not arguing with you any further, considering you insist on being right.
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