[Grey Matter]

I am a genderqueer person. I have been genderqueer my whole life, but only recently "came out" as such. I recently posted a thread that I will not get into, but opened my eyes to the reality that many people do not know what these gender identities are, or how to approach these people with respect.

I will start off with terminology.

Sex; Based on your reproductive system and reproductive abilities and hormones. DOES NOT EQUATE GENDER.

Gender; Mental, emotional, psychological. Gender is not physical, but rather a part of our brains. Some of us are born and our genders match our sex. Some of us are not. It is extremely important to note and understand that gender and sex are NOT the same thing! I am a senior biology student; and this is something we learn VERY early on in our education.

Now, to more terms used in the LGBTQIA* community.

Cisgender; Meaning your SEX matches your given GENDER.
ex; you were identified as a girl at birth by your sex, and it matches your gender.
ex.2.; You are comfortable that your sex matches your gender.

It is VERY important for people who are cis to know that IT IS IN NO WAY a derogatory statement or word. It is a word that exists both in the science, medical, and social fields of both study and community. It gives us a chance to understand who we are and how we are by how we identify and how we are comfortable. If someone calls you "cis" they are not, by any means, insulting you. They are simply stating, that as a cis-gender person, you have privilege over us who are not.

Gender Binary; The social construction of gender in most societies in the world where gender is a dichotomy between male and female.

What does this mean exactly? If you're of the male sex and male gender, you fit into the gender binary. The gender binary is an over-simplification of gender. One that puts pressure on men to be "strong" to be "heros" to not show any sort of emotion. One that puts pressure on women to be "motherly" to be "pure" to be "submissive". It is harmful in many ways; but that is a conversation for another time.

Now. What does non-binary gender mean? I will use a definition from the Gender Wiki (and post all sources at the bottom of the post)

Non-Binary; "Non-Binary Genders are gender identities that don't fit within the accepted binary of male and female. People can feel they are both, neither, or some mixture thereof. It might be easier to view gender as a 1-dimensional spectrum with male on one end, female on the other, and androgyne in the middle- but the reality is that gender is more complex, and 3-dimensional models with axes for male, female, and how strongly you feel attached to that gender identity have been suggested."

Since I am GQ (genderqueer) I am NON-BINARY. This stands true for genderqueer, genderfluid, and agender people. As well as intersex.

Now, to deconstructing what these mean so we can all have a better sense of understanding and therefore can understand those we share this world with on a much better level.

And this is where things are going to become a little more complicated. So give yourself time to read the material, click links, and ask CONSTRUCTIVE and RESPECTFUL questions. I am not made to educate everyone, so this is something I am doing with my free time to help others. If there is a lack of respect, you will get no answers from me.

Genderqueer is a catch-all term for gender identities other than man and woman, thus outside of the gender binary and heteronormativity. People who identify as genderqueer may think of themselves as one or more of the following:
- both man and woman
- neither man nor woman (genderless, agender)
- moving between genders (gender fluid)
- third gendered or other-gendered; includes those who do not place a name to their gender
- having an overlap of, or blurred lines between, gender identity and sexual orientation

Now, as you can see, gender is a much more complicated spectrum then it once has appeared. In your life, you will meet people who identify as at least ONE of these gender identities. Which makes this information even more important to know. To make this a bit easier, I will break down what each non-binary gender means.

Genderqueer; Anyone who identifies outside of the binary genders and cis-genders. I am genderqueer. I am not male, I am not female. And I am COMFORTABLE this way. I dress androgynous, my voice is androgynous, and on certain days I can feel more "male" I can feel more "female" or I can feel neither. What I coin as feeling like "me".

This is the GQ (spectrum) flag:

Genderless/agender; Someone who does not identify as one of the binary genders, nor none of the non-binary genders. In simple terms, they do not have (nor want) a gender identity. Some genderlerss/agender people will dress (like me) in an androgynous way. Some do not. And that is perfectly okay.

"Some agender people feel that they have no gender identity, while others feel that agender is itself a gender identity. This is similar to and overlaps with the experience of being gender neutral or having a neutral gender identity.
As some agender people have no gender identity, it is important to not talk about nonbinary or transgender people's experiences solely in terms of gender identity."


Genderfluid; "an identity under the nonbinary, genderqueer and transgender umbrellas. Fluid gender individuals move between two or more different gender identities or expressions at different times or in different situations."

Now, this one may seem more complicated. I like to break it down in terms of comparing it to sexuality (please do not think I am at all comparing or undermining genderfluid people with this example).
A gay person is attracted to the same sex and gender as themselves.
A bisexual person is attracted to both male and female (binary) people.
A pansexual person is attracted to all gender expressions and identities.

Genderfluidity can be viewed as "pangender". As these individuals do not identify as one, but many, gender identities or none at all. They move between all (or some) genders happily and comfortable with doing so.

Third Gender or Other Gender; "Third Gender aka Othergender is an identity under the nonbinary, genderqueer and transgender umbrellas. Third gender individuals have a gender identity and/or gender expression that is not defined with reference to the gender binary (makes no reference to female/male or feminine/masculine).
The term 'third gender' is not generally intended to imply that there are literally three genders but instead alludes to a 'third way' outside of a rigid binary choice."

Intersex; "Intersex people are those for whom some aspect of their sex is inconsistent with traditionally defined concepts of male and female sex, either among their primary or secondary sexual characteristics, hormones, or chromosomes.
Intersex people have historically been subject to so-called "normalizing" or "corrective" surgeries where their genitals were considered irregular by doctors, often at a very young age and without their consent."

Now that the terms have been shared; it is important to know that gender is NOT a choice. I did NOT choose my gender identity. Rather, I denied it my whole life. Until I have a breakdown and accept this is who I am. No one who is non-binary has CHOSEN their gender. Just like a gay person does not choose to be gay. We are no exception.

I think when it comes to speaking about minorities, as a minority myself, that it is important to state what NOT to ask a trans*/non-binary person as well as list the privileges that cis-gender people have over us so those privileges can be accepted, therefore widening your range of understanding of trans*/non-binary people and their feelings.

WHAT NOT TO SAY OR ASK A TRANS*/NON-BINARY PERSON
- "So, are you a boy or a girl? I mean you can't be both or neither."
- "Do you have a penis or a vagina?"
- "What is your REAL name?"
- "There is no such thing as (genderqueer, genderfluid, agender, intersex, trans*) people. You're doing this for attention."
- "How do you have sex?"
- "Does this mean you're gay?"
- "You're making this up."
- "You're asking to be harassed and questioned because you're identity is so confusing to others! Maybe if you were just normal, we wouldn't have to ask you these questions."

ALL of these questions are EXTREMELY triggering. I can not speak for others, but I have been sexually assaulted multiple times by people trying to figure out if I am a "boy" or "girl". And they all got away with it. Being asked these questions are an EXTREME invasion of privacy.

Ask yourself (if you are cis) would you ask ANY of these questions to another openly cis person? Would you tell them they deserve harassment for how they look or act? No! Of course not! And for that reason, it is never, ever okay to ask these questions. Curiosity is normal. But if your non-binary/trans* friend does not want to answer these questions or educate you; do not be offended. We get asked to do this a lot (for instance, I got asked to make this thread or form an explanation). We use the spoon theory here. The spoon theory is big within the chronic illness community. We, with that communities blessing, have adapted the same terms. Tonight, I really didn't have the spoons to explain all of this. But I am anyway. Keep this in mind when you ask a trans*/non-binary friend/person any of these questions. Sometimes, we're just not up for it. And that's okay.

CIS PRIVILEGES
- As a cis person, you do not need to fear losing your job due to your gender identity. (in more than 12 states in the US it is legal to fire an employee based on their gender identity.)
- As a cis person, you do not need to fear being evicted from your home without warning due to your gender identity. (in the US, in many states, it is completely legal to evict non-binary/trans* people without warning or notice.)
- As a cis person, you do not need to feel gender dysphoria. Especially if you experience menstrual cycles. (some, not ALL, but a good amount of non-binary/trans* people face GD. It leaves us feeling uneasy, as if we are not real, as if we are just sick.)
- As a cis person, you do not need to face confusing doctors appointments involving your health. (the fear of filling out "male" or "female" when you're neither)
- As a cis person, you do not need to fear being abused or kicked out of your home due to your gender identity.
- As a cis person, you do not need to fear being attacked or murdered based on your gender identity (trans*/non-binary people are 70% more likely to be attacked and murdered)

This is all the information I can give right now. I DO NOT WANT THIS THREAD TURNING INTO A DEBATE. I want to start an open, respectful, and SAFE conversation. I want people to feel free to ask me questions here; but know and understand that some days, I am not going to be up to it.

Here are sources used (in case you want to do further reading)
Violence Against Transgender People and People of Color is Disproportionately High, LGBTQH Murder Rate Peaks | GLAAD
http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Intersex
http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Third_gender
http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Fluid_Gender
http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Agender

EDIT: I am tired, in pain, and a bit scatter brained right now. I forgot to add preferred pronouns.

PREFERRED PRONOUNS
Preferred pronouns should ALWAYS be respected. I use the singular "they, them, they're" pronouns. These are my PREFERRED pronouns. If someone calls me a he or a she, it is extremely triggering and can cause dysphoria. And many other non-binary/trans* folk can say the same.
Some examples are
- The singular "they, them, they're" (**these are grammatically CORRECT. There is no debate here, many scholars have come to similar conclusions that these pronouns make more than enough sense to be used. And even if you do not agree, USE THEM ANYWAY.)
- "zhim" (also "mer") for "he or she"
- "shi"/"hir"
- hu, hus, hum, humself (for s/he, his/hers, him/her, himself/herself)

More info and an extremely helpful chart to help you understand how to use these pronouns can be found here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-...ented_pronouns

[LiteraryLark]

Thank you for this, there have been many members who come through here and have no answers, and this is just as helpful for those who are just curious.

Last session with my T she had me make circles on what I think I am on the gender and sexuality scale. I do not feel that I am 100% girl mentally, I honestly feel that I should have been a bisexual male as I prefer gay males and straight girls, and I enjoy dressing in male clothing from time to time and taking on male roles off and on. I know I am a girl and I can't change that, but there is a strong masculine side to me. So I am not sure what that makes me, if that makes me anything at all.

[Grey Matter]

It can mean you are gender fluid, or just enjoy experimenting with gender! If you feel more comfortable without any labels and just have it being you, that's perfectly fine. The gender binary puts a very strict idea of what male and female is and what is not. And it does complicate things. I found it helpful to read and ask questions when I was first coming to terms with my identity. And even if you're not any of the things listed above, asking questions may even help you understand yourself more.

[hamster-bamster]

I wonder why some languages have gendered nouns and others do not. And, of those that do, some have the Neutral grammar gender (German) and others only have male/female genders (French).

I have always wondered why and wanted to know if people who are native speakers of languages with gendered nouns differ in their mentality, if at all, from the native speakers of languages without gendered nouns (English). Whether the concept of gender as a social construct is impacted by the language. Also, just to denote that not all languages have a need for a new pronoun - the word for "his" and "her" is already the same in some languages. It seems that a lot of importance is placed on the use of language, so I wonder what has been studied already.

[Webgoji]

Wow, I've got several trans-gendered friends (I may be using the wrong term here) and a slew of homosexual friends and I've never seen such in-depth terminology and explanation. I need to do some studying up methinks ...

Thanks for the post!

[Grey Matter]

I'm glad the post was helpful! If I find anything that I've missed, I will post it here (and if any other trans*/non-binary members would like to add anything, feel free).

You're using the right terminology! Trans, transgender, transgendered are OKAY. Transexual is not an okay term for cis people to use. So you're fine! If anyone wants more links to readings I can provide them.

[Grey Matter]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I wonder why some languages have gendered nouns and others do not. And, of those that do, some have the Neutral grammar gender (German) and others only have male/female genders (French).

I have always wondered why and wanted to know if people who are native speakers of languages with gendered nouns differ in their mentality, if at all, from the native speakers of languages without gendered nouns (English). Whether the concept of gender as a social construct is impacted by the language. Also, just to denote that not all languages have a need for a new pronoun - the word for "his" and "her" is already the same in some languages. It seems that a lot of importance is placed on the use of language, so I wonder what has been studied already.

This is an interesting point. I am really not in the place to comment because my only language is English; but I hope someone can give us some more insight into this.

[LiteraryLark]

Originally Posted by Teen Idle

Transexual is not an okay term for cis people to use. So you're fine! If anyone wants more links to readings I can provide them.

Unless you're Tim Curry

So, what really confuses me is, what is a "third gender", or to have no gender? What does that mean/an example of this?

[Grey Matter]

Originally Posted by DrSkipper

Unless you're Tim Curry

So, what really confuses me is, what is a "third gender", or to have no gender? What does that mean/an example of this?

Third gender can be a bit confusing. I found it hard when I began learning about the spectrum. Third gender does not indicate that there is a third binary-gender, but that people identify out of the both the rigid binary genders, and the gender identites that exist under the trans*/genderqueer umbrella.

If I were someone who was third gender; I would not be male or female. I would not identify as masculine or feminine but instead, use these terms to explain how I am.

I do need to do more research on this one; give me 20 minutes or so and I'll find some links!

[Grey Matter]

I found a blog of a third-gender person, I am just waiting for their permission to post the link. Hopefully that clears up some confusion.

[ocdwifeofsociopath]

I'm understanding the terminology and stuff, but not the idea. I don't know if that makes sense. I thought it was pretty clear cut..Male, Female, Male that feels they are female, female that feels they are male. I thought anything else fell into sexual attraction categories like Straight, Bi, Gay, Lesbian, and A-sexual. When did this start being known, and are there statistics on percentages of people who are each thing? This next question is NOT meant to insult or be rude. Are these different things similar to mental disorders? And just to clarify, pangender is the same thing as bi? I understand there are things you should not ask, this is completely out of ignorance and wanting to understand. My last question, and I hope non of this offends anybody, is why those with gender issues dress not as their sex?

[Grey Matter]

Okay, I think it is important to clear this up right away. Those who are not of binary gender are NOT experiencing mental illnesses. I happen to be non-binary and mentally ill. My best friend, who is non-binary, is completely healthy in every sense. The thought "this is a disorder" is one that stems from correctional therapies that took place years ago and are still taking place in some areas of the world.

Gender does not dictate sexual attraction. I hope I am not coming off as rude, just sharing some info to clear things up.

"Gender issues" is not a positive term. I am completely comfortable in my gender identity. There is no issue with me. Dressing is an irrelevancy. Some trans*women dress like men, some dress like women, some dress like both! Never base someones gender on the way they dress.

[ocdwifeofsociopath]

I said those with gender issues for those who are confused and are really having issues with it. Not those who are comfortable with it. Out of a scientific curiosity, if it's not a mental thing...what is it? Or do we not know? If this is too much, just say so and I'll drop it.

[Inedible]

Originally Posted by Teen Idle

ALL of these questions are EXTREMELY triggering. I can not speak for others, but I have been sexually assaulted multiple times by people trying to figure out if I am a "boy" or "girl". And they all got away with it. Being asked these questions are an EXTREME invasion of privacy.

Do you mean that they eventually reached into your clothing to attempt to determine for themselves which set of organs you possess? And that is why it is triggering when someone starts in this direction by asking you?

Anyway, what it amounts to is this. I am in a casual social setting with someone I don't know. Most of the time we aren't going to talk even. In my mind my first impression is based on the approximate age, sex, and race of this person physically. Then I will add on additional information based on the way they are dressed, jewelry, tattoos, and accessories. All of this normally happens instantly. Most of the time everything fits into place immediately. There are no unanswered questions, so it does not occur to me to ask. All this just gets filed away. A person's sex is one of the most basic characteristics and if there are lingering questions, then it doesn't just get dropped. It is necessary to make a conscious decision about how to interact with this person. The easiest thing to do is to just ask, and when the answer is given, to go with it. For most people, either a person's sex is male or female and if that fails, the person is reduced to being an object. An "It". And I'm not saying that's right. Most people don't think it is right to look at a person as an "It" so they just want to know, is this person's sex male or female, so they can figure out how to interact and put it behind them. It isn't personal.

For the most part, it is considered politically correct to interact with people the same way, regardless of sex. The exceptions are bathrooms, locker rooms, and bedrooms. The ideal is to see differences and overlook them. It sounds like you are going in the opposite direction with this. You want us to be more aware of these differences and to put a greater emphasis on these differences. Or am I mistaken?

[Grey Matter]

Yes, that is what I mean. Or they attempted to.

No, as I stated in the thread clearly that this was for info/asking/answering questions. Therefore my answers are going to be coming from a non-binary person. No one stated (and if it seemed as though I did, apologies) that we want emphasis on these differences. I am not special because I am non-binary. I am just non-binary.

What I want to emphasize and bring to mind are the way we approach gender stereotypes. As you said, you automatically assume based on clothes, race, sex, etc. What I am bringing emphasis to is the fact that a person can look what has been deemed "girly" or "masculine" and be the other, or neither. I am not saying everyone should start going out of their ways, I am saying it is an interesting thing to think about. When we think of our behaviors as humans and how we approach topics, we learn how to better understand ourselves and the others around us.

[Grey Matter]

Originally Posted by ocdwifeofsociopath

I said those with gender issues for those who are confused and are really having issues with it. Not those who are comfortable with it. Out of a scientific curiosity, if it's not a mental thing...what is it? Or do we not know? If this is too much, just say so and I'll drop it.

No, it's fine.

It is a psychological thing. Gender is not related to sex. Sex is physical, gender is mental. If they are having issues identifying, they can get help from therapists who specialize in the field of gender psychology. It's a lot to take in, and some people do find it easier to get help that way.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Inedible

For the most part, it is considered politically correct to interact with people the same way, regardless of sex. The exceptions are bathrooms

The simplest thing would be to simply drop the idea of sexed public restrooms. In my preschool, we had a communal restroom - boys and girls. Boys would pee into the same toilet, and girls would sit on their potties. It felt isolating - I envied the boys because they were clearly enjoying the ritual of peeing together! I tried peeing standing into the toilet at home to see if I could... failed MISERABLY... and with that, accepted my femininity without holding grudges .

But seriously - it would not be a big deal to me to go to the bathroom that is open to both women and men. How many times did I find myself waiting in a LOOOOOOONG line to the ladies' room at a theater - in most theaters, there aren't more stalls for women, even though it is obvious that women take longer to use the bathrooms - think of menstrual needs, primping, and dealing with elaborate clothing (I personally do not primp, wear elaborate clothing, or have menstrual needs (since Mirena IUD removed my periods), but other women surely can take their sweet time). So I would wait in that LOOOOOOOONG line while secretly wishing to use the men's restroom that has NO line at all. But no!

So either businesses should have more stalls in women's restrooms, or we should just give up this hangup about sexed restrooms. After all, there are stalls with doors - if men don't want to pee into urinals if women are present, they can use stalls and close the door for privacy.

Speaking of privacy - I went to school in the Soviet Union and while we had sexed public restrooms, we did not have doors - people used the stalls without doors (there were tall dividers that separate stalls from one another, but no doors). And, did not die from it, to the best of my knowledge. I do not know anybody who'd die from it - seriously, and I knew lots of people my age.

Getting rid of sexed public restrooms would be much simpler, transaction-cost-wise, than the current California trend towards providing both sexed public restrooms for the use of multiple people at once AND a private, one-person restroom to accommodate people who are transitioning and are not comfortable in either Ladies' or Gents' rooms.

Far simpler!

But somehow this radical simplification is not being discussed enough.

[Grey Matter]

Agreed with all of the above!

I managed to get my university to offer gender neutral bathrooms. And it was a RIDICULOUS process. IT'S A BATHROOM FOR GOODNESS SAKE.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Teen Idle

And it was a RIDICULOUS process. IT'S A BATHROOM FOR GOODNESS SAKE.

exactly - it is a bathroom, what is that big of deal?

these gender divisions are arbitrary - Hasidic Jews have sexed religiously services (women separated from men) and Reform and Conservative Jews have co-ed - both kind of people seem to survive it, which proves that both arrangements are feasible. Muslims have sexed services too, but Christians do not. Clearly, both arrangements are feasible.

There are co-ed schools and girls' / boys' schools - likewise, it proves that both sexed and non-sexed (co-ed) arrangements are feasible.

I think houses of rich people in Ancient Greece were separated into HIS and HER areas, but most modern houses do not have this kind of a separation - lucky people have enough room for a HIS closet and a HER closet, and the less rich couples just somehow divide a closet betwixt themselves. And still survive!

There are REAL reasons for sexed arrangements in sports, though - you cannot have women basketball players compete with men, for the most part. But bathroom use???

[ocdwifeofsociopath]

I agree apart from open urinals haha. I don't know why, but I think it's crude to see a man just whip it out and pee. I like the idea of still getting privacy so there aren't any odd stares...doors on stalls are not a bad thing.