[Patrick85]

I have a degree in psychology (not saying I am any more qualified to make this judgement, but I did study sexuality in college). I just thought of this while sitting in bed checking my email just now. I think men and women experience body image issues differently. I think men are more practical about it and women are more emotional about it. And I am not saying one is better than the other, in fact I think if both sides tried to see it from the other's perspective then we might have better discussions about this. But I want to start with the Kmart commercial from Christmas.

Kmart had a commercial with a bunch of guys and they were HO HO HOing with their speedos on and stuff. You might remember the commercial. While I agree that it was stupid (simply because it was just not funny and dumb), I think getting offended over it is a bit much. But, if women were up there sexing it up on the screen, I can easily see how that is offensive because women look at their own bodies a bit differently than men. As a man, when I see a half naked guy on the TV screen, I don't develop a bad self image at all. I am not saying this is good or bad, I am just saying this is how it exists. But switch sexes, and a woman might have bodily image issues if she sees women sexualized all the time. And that is perfectly legitimate. It is so understandable how a woman would have those issues if the media sexualizes women all the time. But being a man, I do not have body image issues because the body builder was on TV with his shirt off. Mine come from a different place.

I am just saying that men (for the most part) seem not to have as many body image issues or if we do have those issues, we are not trying to look like the guy on TV, however, we just want to look buff ourselves. Men seem to see it as a logic problem. "That guy is on TV, he looks buff, I want to look buff, I need to go to the gym." And women tend to see it more as an emotional thing (which is ok and I think if men did that too then we would have more progress in society).

And this is coming from a guy who is 360 pounds, lost 20 pounds in the gym last year, and is going for another 20 pounds by June. I have serious body image issues so much so that my self esteem is shot. But my body image issues came from within. I did not compare myself to my friends, I did not compare myself to what society wanted. I just got down on myself and I decided that there need to be steps taken to fix it.

I might be wrong and if I am then I deserve to be called on it, but that being said, I think it is a mistake to view body image issues the same for men and women. Sex, in general, is a different experience for men and for women, so it is not hard to see how body image is different as well.

And to be honest, a big motivator in changing my weight is to help with depression, but also because it makes sex a lot better... and that sounds... well just tops to me. That sounds like the cat's meow to me!

This brings up another post that I am going to write so look for that one.

[Webgoji]

Actually Patrick85 ... hey wait ... I banned you!

JK

Anyway, I do agree. Body image issues are different for the sexes. I don't look at say, Hugh Jackman, and then feel bad about myself. My "body issues" actually come from a lack of physical attention and people telling me I'm ugly, fat, etc. So it's not entirely internal either. It's just my reaction to being told. The overwhelming evidence says I'm a troll.

I would offer that many body issues though are a coping mechanism. Take my wife for example; she's absolutely stunning. Guys come out of the woodwork when she enters the room. So her external world would support that she's very attractive. BUT, she had a rough childhood so she refuses to see herself as pretty as she is (and I find many women are this way). She beats herself down because if someone were to say something negative, she can hide behind the "I already know that" mentally. She's afraid of admitting she's beautiful because it would mean she was vulnerable to be critiqued. But by choosing to think she's not as lovely as she is, she's already prepared for an attack that will never come.

Wow, I hope that makes sense. New meds might have me rambling ...

[tufan]

I think men are fortunate because generally men don't feel devalued as a human being if they have quirky physical traits or unconventional looks. Most of the time, this falls under "unique and interesting" for men viewed by female eyes. Maybe even for some gay men. In general, hetero men seem so, so, so entirely fixated on women looking like lies that they see on magazines and the net. Most women are not make-up gurus. Most women do not have 'Hollywood' looks. Most women do the best they can with what they have, but it rarely seems enough and we get that message from every angle in society. Heck, a woman can be thin and in good shape but her petite features will damn her in men's eyes. Someone's god forgive her for the 'sins' of not having a giant bust for men to ogle at or a XXL fanny (when this would clearly be out of proportion), or a beautiful woman that happens to be larger. Oh noes! I don't even know if the average man appreciates real women anymore in all the shapes we come in. As a woman, let me tell you that being tacitly and explicitly told that your beauty is everything takes its toll and most men will never understand. We want to be people too. Plain old Homo Sapiens...not just 'things' to look at and _________.

[Webgoji]

Originally Posted by tufan

I don't even know if the average man appreciates real women anymore in all the shapes we come in. As a woman, let me tell you that being tacitly and explicitly told that your beauty is everything takes its toll and most men will never understand.

We're not all to blame. Just check out Redbook or Elle or Cosmo, those things are as damaging (or worse) than the plastic figures in Playboy. Most men realize that the images in mens magazines and on TV are fake. As a matter of fact, there are plenty of us that prefer real woman as opposed to the fake images on we're fed.

[hamster-bamster]

I grew up with classical art and really talented and good looking European actors and actresses. I am 165 cm tall, the height of Venus in Le Louvre, and, before the supermodel heights became coveted, my height was considered ideal for a woman - not too short, not too tall. I am not buff, but neither is the woman in Le Dejeuner on the grass, and who is sexier - the nude on the grass or the buff but stupid looking Brooke Shields? You get the point. All that stuff about women who become intimidated by Hollywood actresses is totally cryptic to me, because, in my opinion, only a small handful of current Hollywood actresses are sexy. Let me count - Scarlett Johansson, whose last name I probably misspelled, Natalie Portman, Salma Hayek has good features but is constantly overdoing drama. Gwyneth Paltrow is really glamorous and confident, although I would not call her sexy. Megan Fox has proportionate enough facial features, but looks horrible because she does not know how to smile, how to look enigmatic and how to look approachable and how to vacillate between the two. Courtney Cox has a dead mask in place of a face. All of this is extremely depressing per se (that the esthetic taste over the past 50 years in America has deteriorated from drop dead gorgeous Monroe to passingly pretty Kardashian) and even more depressing is that apparently women want to look like Brooke Shields - I just found a 2007 issue of the Fitness magazine, which I no longer subscribe to, with Brooke Shields on the cover, smiling in such a way that I would have suggested her for a Tide detergent commercial. The cover read - "how does Brooke Shields stay sexy without a trainer". I could not believe it, because she just does not seem sexy to me with or without a trainer, because her face is so stupid one wants to cry. So basically women's magazines sell the idea that if women eat and exercise a certain way, they will be sexy. Did Monroe and Sophia Loren exercise much in the days of their youth?

[hamster-bamster]

PS to do justice to Paltrow, I think she is on a par with Audrey Hepburn in terms of chic. I just don't personally find her that sexy, but chic she is.

[hamster-bamster]

And Aniston - also not particularly sexy, but always fresh, with exquisitely shaped limbs, and a unique style that does not get boring.

[shezbut]

Hello Patrick85,

I recently came to a similar conclusion myself. Due to several factors (particularly in current Western society), men and women do look at themselves in different ways.

I am tempted to say that men are a lot easier to please, but I'm sure that's a broad over-generalization. As a woman, however, it sure feels that way to me! The ratio of commercials aimed towards women pressuring them to perfect this & that, look young again, etc. compared to those aimed towards men to do the same are ridiculous! {I wonder if there are current stats on that..} Instead, men's commercials are aimed towards graying hair, Viagra, and sex: alcohol ads, and Carl's Jr. (aka: Hardee's). Even those commercials aimed towards men put more pressure on women to be that "hot woman".

It drives me crazy! While most guys that I've ever been with have said wonderful things about my beauty, I just can't believe it. All that I can see are my imperfections, yet my bf reassures me that I'm gorgeous. I do know that men will often say whatever they have to in order to get lucky though too....which is certainly another factor to add into the large equation!

Well, women have been told that they should look a certain way by the media for generations....Marketing is brilliant at preying on how vulnerable we feel because of it.

Men haven't had to deal with that so they tend to have fewer self-esteem issues.

Men are able to look at themselves a little more objectively, I think.

[Secretum]

Sexualized images of women don't only harm by making an "average" woman feel uncomfortable in her body. Sexualized images of women send the message to society that women are human sex toys invented to fulfill men's pleasure, that women's thoughts, emotions, dreams, and humanity are secondary to their sex appeal. This is wrong.

[hamster-bamster]

Shezbut,

perfection is usually not attractive. Individuality, grace, beauty are attractive, but perfection is not. Think of real river pearls, each a little different from the rest, each glistening with a mysterious glow. That is beauty. Now think of Barbara Bush's signature pearls. All identical, all perfect, all stupid looking and soulless, without individuality, quirkiness, or enigma. Who cares for perfection then?

[Webgoji]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Shezbut,

perfection is usually not attractive. Individuality, grace, beauty are attractive, but perfection is not. Think of real river pearls, each a little different from the rest, each glistening with a mysterious glow. That is beauty. Now think of Barbara Bush's signature pearls. All identical, all perfect, all stupid looking and soulless, without individuality, quirkiness, or enigma. Who cares for perfection then?

I also seem to remember seeing some study on the news where they gave people images of peoples faces and people actually found the "non-perfect" ones more attractive. If someone's face was dead on perfect (each eye in line, mouth exactly right, etc) then they reported the image actually gave off a "creepy vibe". I wish I could find that study ... and my keys ...