mmm sex

Alex................felt much the same way about it for many years........and never even masturbated due to shame/etc......My girlfriend and I got a lovely little.....one with a dolphin on top (lol) and tried it together. helped take the fear/shame/self-assumptions out of it.

Now..................damn...............love that thing..............love it................can't belive i waited til 30 to get one. Been missing out all those years. It actually boosted my appreciation of myself and body and the big O.......ha, ha, I have more of them. Guess what they say about women in their 30s is right with me.

Oh yea, and it's a quite little bugger too....with lots of "settings".

But yea, a person, a live warm body, is much better any day.....

I just want to add a little note: On the term, "respond," I don't get turned on just from touch; I need mental stimulation. Neither do I get turned on just from seeing or touching a vibrator or other sex toy. I need to fantasize (some people don't). It's more about the mental.

it is interesting to read about peoples views... i'm not sure that people are getting where i'm coming from particularly, but thats okay.

i wonder quite a lot about objectification. kant talks about that a lot. the notion is that there is nothing (morally) wrong with manipulating an object according to ones will solely for ones own ends. while we might similarly be able to manipulate subjects solely for ones own ends, this is thought to be morally wrong, however. why? well, because subjects have their own goals, preferences, and desires. to disregard a subjects own goals, preferences, and desires in order to obtain our own is something that kant regarded as problematic.

(this is what is behind kants dictum that people should be treated as ends in themselves and not solely as means to our ends)

he had some stuff to say about sex... basically... he thought that sexual activity (between two people) was (in the 'best' case) an interaction / activity between two subjects. he thought that it wasn't so good if sexual activity (between two people) was an interaction between one subject and one object. there has been a feminist critique of this mostly because he seemed to think that marriage was the institution that was most likely to result in sexual activity being an activity between two subjects. people have (rightly i think) cast a lot of doubt on how much marriage is likely to facilitate such an encounter. but the notion of an interaction between two subjects is something that i find fairly appealling...

it is hard though.

i guess most people think that objectification is okay so long as it is mutual. i guess there is also something of a continuum between the two polarities of seeing someone as a subject at one end and seeing someone as an object at the other. comprimise and give and take probably lye somewhere along the continuum. there is a difference between engaging in some activity that one doesn't like particularly because ones partner does (i.e, consenting to be objectified a little) and having ones subjectivity completely over-ridden (e.g., rape).

maybe this is hopelessly idealistic...

but i guess i like the idea of sexual activity (between two people) being an activity between two subjects. i don't have a problem with masterbation (indeed you can interact with different aspects of mind while treating them as subjects) and so i don't have a problem with the notion of treating yourself as a subject too. but i do worry a little about bringing objects into the picture... i do worry a little about training ones body to respond to objects. i do worry a little about training ones body to preferentially respond to objects over subjects...

but i guess it is a deeply personal matter and i really do think that it is up to each individual to figure out what is right for them. and i do indeed appreciate that this is my view (not necessarily shared by others) and that my view could change / evolve over time.

IMHO present culture most often presents sexual activity as being an activity between a subject and an object. 'equality' between the sexes is often portrayed as a mutual objectification. i personally think that equality (between people) is more a matter of... transcending objectification altogether (to the best of ones ability). so anyway, i guess that is where i (presently) stand on the issue.

do people feel the same way about blow up dolls and artificial vaginas as they feel about vibrators? if not... why not? and what... is the difference?

though of course i do wonder a bit about my encounters... i figured they were about two subjects having a little fun... but then i got to thinking about when it is that i have a desire for one of those encounters... and it seems to be when i am having a desire for intimacy but when i'm scared of intimacy at the same time. so what is it about these encounters that is okay intimacy wise?

control?

control of what? i think maybe it is about being desired. about intimacy yeah. but no strings... so no concerns about abandonment or whatever. because it is an encounter... and sure there is a bit of trust in the moment to be with them... but it isn't about making plans for the future or anything like that. it isn't about making a committment to be there for them (or vice versa).

so maybe it isn't so much about control. but then... who knows.

I'm not into all that "deepness." I don't prefer objects over persons, and I don't think one's body responds to anything without the brain. People have deep, meaningful relationships with other people, whether they've used objects or include objects or not.

As for artificial vaginas, I have no problem with them. They're the same thing for men as dildos are for women. I don't think much of blow-up dolls; I don't really get how anyone could be turned on by one (their faces are just goofy!), but to each his own. However, there are realistic dolls that are more "dangerous," IMO, in terms of becoming an object of obsession, or as an excuse to not interact with real human beings. And I say, if a person uses any object, whether for sex or not, as a way to avoid human interaction, then that's a problem. I think anything can be abused, and that would qualify as abuse, again, IMO. I also think sex toys can be a part of a healthy sex life.

Do you consider oils and lubricants a problem? I mean, if you masturbate and use a massage oil, and you really enjoy the feeling of that oil, are you worried your body will become "trained" to need that oil? What if, when you're older, you have problems with natural lubrication, and need to use an artificial lubricant, and happen to enjoy the feeling of it? Would that cause you distress?

i guess there is something of a continuum...

so there is sexual activity without any 'aids'
and then there is sexual activity with aids like lube...
and then there is sexual activity with aids like vibrators...
and then there is sexual activity with aids like blow up dolls...
and then there is sexual activity that clearly involves objectification of a person (rape).

i'm not at all meaning to suggest that there is an inevitable progression...

but i do think that this would be one way of laying out a progressing of 'object involved' (rather than 'subject involved' sex')... perhaps...

but then maybe the 'object involvement' cuts across kant's object / subject distinction. seems to me that it would be possible to have objectifying sex in the absence of aids and to have subjectifying sex in the presence of aids...

but perhaps there is some relation???

don't know...

the experiences we have affect the desires we have... if you watch a lot of porn involving massochistic / rape scenes then it might well make it more likely that you have violent, objectifying sexual urges (extreme example, but i'm sure it has application to more moderate forms of objectification too)

like i said... if i was involved with a person then i might give aids a go at times...

but i won't be training my body to them with respect to masterbation.

just my personal 'what is right for me' i guess.

everyone needs to find their own 'what is right for me' i understand that.... i'm just trying to explain my decision.

(i don't think it is wrapped up in prudishness or shame or disgust or anything like that. it is about reflecting on what i want sex to be about. that is what i intended to convey with my explanation).

just my thoughts. i am up for discussion (take what you will). i could come around to different ways of viewing it ;-)

but it is my present take, yeah.

do people feel the same way about blow up dolls and artificial vaginas as they feel about vibrators? if not... why not? and what... is the difference?

i have never given blow up dolls any thought at all.......artificial vaginas, not very much either. to me a man is going to use his hand more than anything else. and he can achieve an orgasm easier with his hand than i can with mine. so if i can achieve an orgasm with a vibrator (bunny) or toy and it's very pleasant and stress free, then that's what i'm going to do.

of course i prefer sex with my SO. but he ain't here all of the time.

i've never watched porn so have no comment on that aspect of it.

all of this talk of "objectification" makes me uncomfortable though. you're going places with that one when most of us have probably never thought of it like in that way.

as you get older, lube is essential. as are hormone creams. life does that.

I think all of us here prefer the "real thing" I know I do but sometimes when the real thing isn't available a quickie with a vibrator is of good use. It also helps in the bedroom with a couple. personally I have used them for many many years and never once have I had one that shocked me. although one time I did have an electric one short out and I threw it across the room and then to the trash lol soon bought a new one lol

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alexandra_k said:
it is interesting to read about peoples views... i'm not sure that people are getting where i'm coming from particularly, but thats okay.

he had some stuff to say about sex... basically... he thought that sexual activity (between two people) was (in the 'best' case) an interaction / activity between two subjects. he thought that it wasn't so good if sexual activity (between two people) was an interaction between one subject and one object.

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I understand where you are coming from and I use to be there myself, but over time and with some education on the subject I have since changed my POV...... and now while I no longer (or rarely) use self pleasure by myself - I am open and willing to participate in it with my husband, for I do understand that ones body can become accustom to pleasure thru or with a sexual device, therefore, not be able to engage in regular sexual activity with a real live human and receive pleasure from it.... I speak of this from personal experience, and not that of just mere words of another.

IMO - (so take it or leave it) - sex is kind of like religion.... YOU have to decide and make that choice on your own and not let what another has to say on the subject influence you.... for a lot of what another says on any given subjects is largely based on their POV and not that of total truth or fact.

I personally changed my POV concerning what is allowed within sex after I read in the BIBLE of all books, which stated: that the marriage bed is undefiled...... meaning what goes on behind closed doors between a man and a woman that is married is between them and completely blessed from above - IF both partners are in total agreement.

So..... Hang in there and lean not to another's wants or desires and learn by what you are comfortable with and like to do sexually..... and please know that no one here is trying to change your mind - we are just trying to help by letting you know how we personal feel and by what we do sexually with adult toys so that you will know that it is normal and not feel as though it is perverted.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

bebop, there are people that actually use devices to give them electric shocks while masturbating or having sex, did you know that? And, NO, I'm not suggesting it's a good idea, LOL! But you made me think of that!

I hear you there -\ Eeeek!!!! - SEX and PAIN not my thing.................

.... but to each their own -

yes I do know that but I don't know of a single vibrator that does that. thank goodness lol. I have heard people use electrical cords or something. not me no way no how! uh uh!

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alexandra_k said:
i miss it :-(

a love affair... thats what i need...

;-)

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I could use a love affair myself. I'm tired of hugging my pillow.

that is why I am glad I am not truck driving anymore. I don't have to hug my armless legless companion. my pillow

I'm sure there are people who use electric cords and whatnot, but there are specifically devices made to provide these shocks safely (as much as they can be safe; they do come with warnings--which I know from reading about them in catalogs, not from ordering them myself, LOL!).

alexandra, in case I didn't come across as such, I am not putting you down for your feelings or beliefs on this topic; I'm just sharing my views, and not saying you're wrong or anything.

> I understand where you are coming from and I use to be there myself, but over time and with some education on the subject I have since changed my POV...

Yeah. I used to think that there wasn't anything wrong with sex toys etc (with respect to what it was and was not okay for ME to do) but with some of this thinking about objectification and the way our bodies acquire physiological responses to new stimuli and the way our bodies experiences affect our desires I have since changed my POV.

(I just mean to say that 'education on the subject' can lead one to either conclusion, perhaps).

> I speak of this from personal experience, and not that of just mere words of another.

I don't see the problem that people have with what they regard to be the 'mere words of another' when those words have been informed by experimental data (often times the collection of many peoples reports of experiences)...

With respect to the notion that 'what goes on behind closed doors between a man and a woman that is married is between them and completely blessed from above - IF both partners are in total agreement'. Do you think that there are certain acts that someone could not give proper agreement to? I guess I'm thinking of cases such as... The guy in germany who put an ad in the paper because he wanted to find somebody he could kill and eat. Somebody gave his consent and so that was done. I don't want to get hung up in that particular case but I guess I'm wondering whether you think that there might be some acts that one is simply unable to give informed consent to do (e.g., if one partner wanted to severely hurt the other would it be possible for the other party to want to be severely hurt and give informed consent for it to be done with gods approval?)

> we are just trying to help by letting you know how we personal feel and by what we do sexually with adult toys so that you will know that it is normal and not feel as though it is perverted.

'Perverted' is a very strong word. It isn't one I would have used. With respect to 'normal' I don't know whether it is statistically normal or not... I've never cared much for 'normality' in that sense, however. It is more about optimal or ideal. The kind of person I want to be... Do I want to encourage my body go 'get off' on objectifications? Not really. I appreciate that people who choose to use toys often don't see what they are doing in that way. I'm just explaining why it is that I've made the personal decision not to use them, however.

Anyway... The point of the thread was kind of about finding a real live man...

I kinda found a candidate... Then realised that maybe I didn't really want one after all. Nothing happened. Doing alright... Hanging in there...

Though I am finding the discussion interesting :-)

I do find it fairly interesting to hear about the things that people find okay for them and not okay for them and some of the reasons why they have come to their views (what diversity there is!)

Like how some people have come to the decision that sex outside marriage is something that is not right for them while others find that okay. Like how some people have come to the decision that sex outside the context of a serious relationship is not okay while others find that okay. Etc etc.

I think it would be terrific if this forum could be used to explore some of these different ideas that people have so people can reflect on their own views. Particularly great if the conversation does indeed stay focused on what people find okay and not okay for them personally rather than their views on the activities of others.

I agree Alexandra. This is an interesting discussion. Here's what's not okay with me. I'm not okay with having sex outside of a serious relationship. I have friends who have fun with casual sex and that's fine for them. I don't think that what they're doing is wrong; it's just not for me. Sex isn't just physical for me; it's very emotional too. So, I need to really trust someone and care deeply about them (and know that they feel the same way about me) and feel a strong emotional connection with them before I can have a physically intimate relationship with them.

well i'm more oversexed than my hubby so i've ordered a pocket rocket to keep me company on those long nights when he works. all good healthy fun and i bet it interferes with next door's tv lmao.

if you put a vibrator against your nose and it tingles its the right one for you - just thought i'd let you in on that secret.

i say each to their own really, dont have to do anything you're uncomfortable with.

jin(blushing slightly) xoxoxoxoxoxoxo

i agree with you, juliana..............and the pocket rocket woman............