Why are men threatened by sexually empowered women?

Thing is that economical and social improvement is not the only solution because we're not just talking about America here or about people still alive. Patriarchy and male entitlement(and racist, white supremacy) are things that have existed for thousands of years and especially once certain religions, Christianity being a great example, became powerful enough to exert political and legislative power while also being the one deciding what is good and bad, who is better, who is an outcast, etc.

The disenfranchisement of the lower middle class and of skilled workers, of people in rural communities and of those without higher education is not a new thing, it existed always and only rarely were they more empowered, in certain unique circumstances or periods of particular prosperity.

Aggressive capitalism and right wing ideologies(by this I don't mean extremist right wing, just "regular" right wing ideologies that favor the upper middle class and the rich, the "intellectuals" over the skilled workers, that don't favor a social state that tries to help and even things with things like social healthcare systems the likes you find in ALL of western Europe - aka the best healthcare systems, not perfect but the best there is -, that promotes a sort of selfishness on the part of those more fortunate, etc) are generally harmful to everyone who isn't already well off or an intellectual elite. That is not a gender thing, it affects both men and women just as much only women are not socialized and conditioned to have an aggressive(mentally or physically) reaction to it the way men are. For women, who have already been suffering from oppression and who have always been treated as lesser human beings in on way or another, it's just another step down into the "mud" let's say. For men though...they fall off a pedestal.

Thing is we are not talking here about the US in particular, I'm not even American so although I know way too much about American politics, this is not a US centric debate.

And I do completely agree with what you said in this post and another reply, men just have to recognize their privilege, check their privilege and try to relinquish it. No one wants to do that but equality is actually good for both men and women.

Men could benefit tremendously from true equality because that eliminates toxic masculinity and gives more freedom to men to feel their feelings, admit their needs of being supported and comforted and it also would take some pressure away because by not being thought of as inherently superior and more able, it would be truly ok(not just legally or whatever but with no social stigma and conditioning to affect self esteem and self worth) to not be the one earning more money, being the "strong" one (which just means denying yourself the need for comfort and help).

Yes, men would have to pitch in equally with house chores and the nasty bits of having a child and would not be able to randomly objectify and sexualize women at every step or feel innately superior over this one category, but that isn't right away and that privilege and comfort comes with the oppression and dehumanization of women. Having these privileges is not a privilege at all actually.

There's a lot of freedom is being allowed to be imperfect, because no is perfect, no one is inherently stronger or weaker and feelings or the need to be helped, having bad days, being sad, feeling loss, needing love, crying...those things are good to have freely because we all have them and when men are sort of pushed into repressing them or just not dealing with them, that ends up keeping a lot of men from experiencing full intimacy, connection, happiness, intimate and fulfilling friendships, a helping hand, etc.

As someone who is clearly a 'staunch" feminist, I want full equality and that doesn't only mean not being objectified, having equal rights legally and also in the actual world where just because it's law doesn't mean it happens, not being socially pressured to wear make up and look a certain way to an extent men aren't pressured to do it, not having my worth stand first and foremost in how I look, truly having equal opportunities in life.

No, I want all those things but I also want the responsibilities. For ex, I don't want men to pay for me just because I'm the woman, I want to split the bill or, in a relationship for ex, I want to pay sometimes and then he can pay some other time too ofc like it happens with friends too. I don't want a man to be "my rock" ,I want us to be a team with equal rights and responsibilities, who support each other in equal measure to the best of our abilities. I don't want a "tough" or "stoic" man, I want sensitive men and yes that means I am ready to be there for them as well emotionally. A lot of women want that, to provide in equal measure, to be allowed to, but that does come with society as a whole rejecting gender norms and stereotyping that it has inherited in various forms from past generations.

It's like when you say religion is inherently pretty bad and violent. That's not to say everyone who believes in God is bad or violent at all or that everything about religion is that way, but as a whole it tends to be.

I don't expect men to apologize to me just as I don't think, for ex, every German needs to apologize for nazism. Men have to do what Germans did post war basically, admit that they were part of a society that gave the world nazism and ended up killing a lot of people, even if many individuals weren't guilty of anything, take a broad responsibility for it as a group and work towards eliminating the parts of their culture and mentality that made Hitler and genocide possible. Accountability is the first step.

"Why are some men so threatened by female empowerment/feminism?"

If you can reverse the statement about women being threatened by men, you'll understand

What? I'm confused.

If you can reverse the statement about women being threatened by men, you'll understand

Starsky....you give me hope for the future.

Was rereading thread from the start and it made me think of this...

https://de-film.com/v-patrick-batema...hP6nOB1dc.html

I'm super confused. And a little weirded out.

Glad I give you hope though.

Really? I'm surprised.

To clarify, good post. It was logical, based in reality and personal experience, considered other viewpoints. That has become less common in discourse today, hence my comment about being hopeful. ... or maybe I just liked it because I agreed with it.

Separately...

....the reason I thought of that movie and scene is because it reminds me of the generalizations, fake concern and speaking in sound bites that has become the standard in debate/discussion today.

Nothing to be "weirded out by."

Really? I'm surprised.

To clarify, good post. It was logical, based in reality and personal experience, considered other viewpoints. That has become less common in discourse today, hence my comment about being hopeful. ... or maybe I just liked it because I agreed with it.

Separately...

....the reason I thought of that movie and scene is because it reminds me of the generalizations, fake concern and speaking in sound bites that has become the standard in debate/discussion today.

Nothing to be "weirded out by."

I often noticed that as of late, men feel like they are playing second banana, so to speak, to women and female sexuality. This can also be construed as feminism. However, I often wonder why men feel so completely threatened when the playing field is equalized more, and they are no longer the ones calling all the shots.

What we are seeing now, especially with the "me too" movement, is women becoming in charge of their lives, and more importantly, their own bodies. All too often, and not to say it's with every man in the world because all men all different, but every too often you see older, dominant men thinking that all women are there to please them, and if they (for example) wear clothing that is considered 'revealing' they are asking for sexually suggestive favors.

However, I am discussing why men feel so completely threatened, so I shall refocus myself. Why is it that some men look upon this movement, or even the word "feminist/feminism" with such disdain and repugnance?

I'm not real fluent in how to do a trigger warning, but the icon is up there for my second paragraph in which I describe some childhood sexual abuse without a whole lot of detail.


Let me start by saying that women are stupid. Now, I don't for a moment believe that, but therein lies the power of a generalized statement. Certainly some people are stupid, and that includes some men and some women. When you begin a thread with, I have noticed that 'men feel'...and follow up the thought with 'men feel so completely threatened'.. you are talking about me - and you are wrong. You've unjustly accused me of behavior I find reprehensible and seem to imply that any rejection of your premise is simply ignorance and/or denial.

Well I took it as not implying literally all men from the start (as a male myself - albeit rather fluid). It does actually say at the end of the first post "Why are some men so threatened by female empowerment/feminism?" and I saw the actual title and opening statements as more of a topic starter than blanket statement, with the ending question the fuller summary of an actual position.

I guess I didn't feel threatened by it ...

...because I agree that some men are threatened by feminism, personally I see it as an opportunity but not all men do want to, or know how to, give up their privilege or just don't value women. It's great that some do and I agree that should be acknowledged too, I don't see anyone not doing that though.

All men and women are "touched" by sexism(towards women) to some extent, the world is at the core and at the surface filled with sexist messages, just that some are so subtle and ingrained in the fabric of society that they are almost not noticeable, unquestioned.

In the same way all white people are touched by racism. The idea is to analyze everything, the meaning and origin of everything we're conditioned to believe about one another and about ourselves from the perspective of gender, sexuality or ethnicity and better ourselves, cure ourselves of these harmful perceptions, catching and correcting ourselves when we have a knee jerk reaction to judge someone in any way based on something like their gender or color.

No one is blaming all men and of course there's a lot of men who are absolutely feminist and reject toxic masculinity and so on. The idea is that we are all sadly starting off by being socialized and conditioned to have some sexist perceptions, because those are the messages we're bombarded by from a young age when we absorb without being able to choose.

It's not pointing fingers, it's drawing attention to what is inside of us all. After all, some of the most sexist people in the world are women. We all receive the same messages about who is strong and who is weak, as a general example.

Besides, the first step to changing something is to identify all the problems, accept they're there and need changing and then do something about it.

I think one very interesting and telling perspective is that of trans people who transition and "pass". There are such subtle differences sometimes in how people treat you based on assumed gender, that you can only be made fully aware when you experience both. I've read more than a few accounts from transwomen who knew people are sexist but still had a shock and there's transmen who talked about how much safer they felt just because they're perceived as men, nothing more, how much more respected they felt everywhere or that they felt under less scrutiny at work, treated more fairly, etc and often this feeling came from super small things.

This thread is confusing. How are all men completely threatened? And what has #metoo got to do with it? Isn't metoo about 0.01% very powerful men abusing their fame, power, and money to intimidate woman into doing things they don't want to do, all the way up to sex without consent? \

I don't know what sex is. Never been anywhere close to that. But for romance, I felt that woman always had 100% of the power. And I wasn't threatened by that.

This thread is confusing. How are all men completely threatened? And what has #metoo got to do with it? Isn't metoo about 0.01% very powerful men abusing their fame, power, and money to intimidate woman into doing things they don't want to do, all the way up to sex without consent? \

I don't know what sex is. Never been anywhere close to that. But for romance, I felt that woman always had 100% of the power. And I wasn't threatened by that.