Date Rape

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the abuse thread or here. Since it involves sex...I chosen here. Hope you all will share your insight.

Here is a question for the 40-50 year olds. Others feel free to respond too, just tell me what decade your perspective is from, because...maybe I'm wrong but things seem different now. I would especially like to here some male perspectives.

In the 70-80's was date rape just a common thing that young men did without a second thought?
Here is a memory I had today of a wild HS-drinking party I had. As I thought more about it...I think what happened would be considered today as date rape.

I was 15 years old... 1980's, parents were out for the evening and I had a party. My brother probably either 19-20 joined the party...'cause as he used to say..."you have some hot friends". Well at one point during the evening some girl...I knew her, but she wasn't really a friend, got really drunk and was puking in my house. I having no tolerance for idiots (I know I was a *****) wanted her out of the house after she puked red (Slow Gin) on my bedroom carpet. Of course my BROTHER said he would take care of her and walked her out to his van. The party continued then broke up.
As I sat and chatted with a few remaining friend...in staggers this girl who had spent the last few hours...in the van. Hair a wreck, clothes wrinkled and half off looking... Pretty worn out if you know what I mean.

The sad thing is... I didn't even blink an eye. I just remember member thinking "idiot!" and then looking at my brother and telling him, "you better use that van of yours to take her the hell home."

Nothing was ever said about that night other than everyone commenting in school about how great the party was. I remember seeing that girl in class that week...I don't think she even had a clue what happened.
IDK...was this just how things were back then?
Was this not considered rape in those days? Kind of seems like rape to me today.

Do guys see this as rape or just an opportunity?

I'm not sure if it would even be in the date rape category...since my brother didn't even know her until that night.

I know this still happens today. Maybe I am just seeing this through adult eyes now and am feeling a guilty. I mean... let some girl be abused simply because she puked on my carpet.

I would appreciate your comments.

first up - not your responsibility at all - i would ask anyone who puked on my floor to leave also. you cannot control what happens to them afterwards.

secondly - i'm not sure if you can assume it was rape. certainly if your brother forced himself on her, or coerced her, or something, but you don't know if she wasn't the one who initiated it, or gave consent etc.

i think there are too many unknowns in this story for you to assume it was rape.

but if we assume she said no, or struggled, or whatever that made it clear she wasn't giving consent (or wasnt able to give it) - then yes it would be date rape by today's standards. it doesn't matter that they only met that night, it'd still be classified as date rape.

as for whether these things were common back then... i was born in '84, so i have no clue .

Del, thanks... IDK, the girl was not coherent enough to consent. In our local paper a month ago a 20 year old guy was just sentenced to jail, for basically doing the same thing. The girl 16, I think, was partying with her friends, got really drunk and separated from them,somehow came in contact with this guy, woke up the next morning and realized he had had sex with her, and reported him.

I agree mostly with deli, except that, if she was drunk or drugged, even if she initiated it, it's still rape. If she was that out of it, legally (now) he has to turn her down or he can be arrested for rape. That said, I don't know what the laws were regarding that back then, and even now, some laws may be different in some areas.

YOU have nothing to feel guilty about, because as deli said, you had every right to evict her from your house, and you hold no responsibility as to what happened afterward. As for when you saw her again, date rape wasn't as commonly known back then, at least in the way we think of it, and even so, you don't know what happened.

Date rape was common back then...probably always has been, since dating's been around...and there were stories, dramas, documentaries and news reports about it back then. Guys were often taught that a girl has to say no to protect her reputation, while the guy was supposed to persist, because "no means yes." They didn't seem to think, What if she says no and really means no? But while things have changed, and "No means no," date rape still happens a lot.

Being that this girl was under age and drunk I have to say that your brother saw this as an opportunity to get lucky.... and he did.

Yeah, ... And looking back on it now,I helped toss her in the lions den.

No you didnt, you had no idea what your brother was going to do (that is if he even did anything) you also had no control over what the girl was drinking....

you said it was hours later she came back in? maybe he took her out to the van and she passed out. maybe she slept part of the drunk off and your brother did nothing to her at all. maybe I am one to try to see the good in others. either way nothing was your fault.

It certainly wasn't normal or accepted, as far as I recall (I am in my early 40s). However, date rape seems a more widely comprehended concept than when I was a teen...maybe kids better understand the dangers of partying too drunk/doped up, but I'm not sure.

Personally, I have never seen sex with someone who is drunk/stoned into oblivion as an opportunity. (Not unless it was preceded with the statement "Let's get drunk and have sex!!" )

If your brother said he was going to "take care" of her and then took advantage, I think that was a pretty lousy thing to do, even if the girl was being an idiot. What happened, and whether rape actually occurred, may only be known between him and the girl...or maybe even only to him. But it doesn't sound unreasonable that you trusted him.

I don't think you need to beat yourself up over this, but it's healthy to question it. Have you ever talked to your brother about it?

Well, my brother was definately a sleeze bag back then. However he was not violent...so he would not likely of forced himself on her, but he would have surely taken full advantage of her drunkeness. After all that is why he showed up at his little sister's party. I would like to claim ignorance; but I can't. Honestly, in my little world back then...if you were stupid enough to put yourself in that situation...
As an adult and parent, I see things differently now.

sorry you had to go through that. I was drug raped when I was in my 30's. IT is something hard to deal with.
You have my sympathies....