[lynn09]

Every spring my sleep cycle suddenly flips and I become totally nocturnal - it has been this way my entire life. No matter what I do, I cannot go to sleep until 8, 9, 10 o'clock in the morning, wake up about 2 or 3pm, and am up all night. Growing up, school, and then in adulthood working, was agonizing. Since I no longer work, it isn't a huge problem, but it takes all summer for me to gradually work my way around to a more usual timeframe. My sleep has never been "normal" - I've always woken up every couple of hours, but this springtime flip thing really puzzles me.

Does anyone else experience something like this? lynn09

[carrie_ann]

i'm the opposite, that happens to me in the autumn ... then come spring i barely sleep at all. it doesn't really matter now i don't work and study from home but when i worked, i always done night shift coz i seem to be naturally nocturnal anyways. but it is frustrating when friends want lunch or something and i miss it for falling asleep at 8,9,10 am.

[lynn09]

Thanks, carrie_ann! Glad to know someone else experiences a similar "flip." Has anyone ever given you a clue as to why this would happen?

Now that I think about it, I've always been a "night-owl" even as a baby, according to my mother. Perhaps nocturnal is our norm and our bodies can only take being forced into an unnatural cycle for so long before they insist on realigning with that norm again. Hmmmm...will have to do some research.

Take care! lynn09

[-jimi-]

I have sort of come to terms with that I have DSPS. For me it is the same around the year. I don't sleep well at all when I "should" sleep, and if I was forced to sleep like that, I would get very sick and die. We need sleep.

Unfortunately, sleep disorders like these are not seen as hard or disabling, but how much harder can it be that always been on the verge of a collapse having to work or go to school? I only work rarely so not a huge problem. Or... it's still a problem.. it's actually quite hard battling it all the time. Trying to balance the disorder and a sense of day and night. I think if I left my pattern totally to itself I would keep waking up at midnight. Not much fun.

Circadian rhythm disorders actually usually get worse with time. They usually start in childhood, although often rather mild and get worse as you become an adult.

I remember being 12 and my parents thinking I needed 9 hours of sleep and thought I needed to sleep at 9:30. It filled me with such horror they had to set my bedtime to 10:15....

[lynn09]

Thanks, jimrat. My internist and rheumatologist told me in the early-1980s that I have a sleep disorder, and had had it since childhood, but it was never evaluated beyond that - never given a name. I just took a look at Circadian Rhythm Disorder-Delayed Phase Sleep Disorder or Type, and it describes me pretty accurately. Usually, 2-3 nights a week (more if I'm really stressed) I have insomnia and can't sleep at all until the afternoon of the following day. I have always slept best in the morning and early afternoon, and I function best mentally and physically in the wee hours - most definitely an extreme nightowl. I also had terrible night terrors throughout my childhood.

I had a birth defect in my lower spine that caused some neurological damage - wasn't discovered and treated until I was 20 - and I also have had widespread degenerative arthritis in all my joints since my teens. So, I have Chronic Pain from those, plus fibromyalgia, restless-leg symptoms, CFS, etc. I have also been diagnosed with Adult ADHD/ADD, Major Depressive Disorder, PTSD from physical and psychological abuse both as a child and as an adult, and immune-system problems (severe chemical and environmental allergies and hypersensitivities), plus asthma - all of which contribute to a host of sleep disorders according to my research.

I remember the rheumatologist that treated me for about 11 years saying that they didn't know if the sleep disorder caused a lot of my other problems or if the combination of all those other conditions caused the sleep disorder - that chicken-or-egg-first thing. Guess it really doesn't matter - they all exacerbate each other. Like I said, it's not such an issue now that I can no longer work - but it still interferes with "normal" functioning and flow. Explains a lot about the difficulties I have had for so many decades!

I don't tolerate medications, other than antihistamines, at all well because of the immune-system problems, but it's good to have some idea of what's going on, and I can use some of the suggested techniques for dealing with it.

Appreciate the input, jimrat! lynn09

[-jimi-]

Everything can feed into another. When people for example get depressed, their sleep pattern tend to change. Some people think it's just the depressed one not staying active and disciplined, when in fact it is something happening in that person's brain.

I have Asperger's and ADD, and both have a higher incident of circadian rhythm disorders than "normal" people.

I'm a night owl, but I also have to watch myself so I don't fall asleep later and later at night. I wish at least the cycle could be still...

[lynn09]

Yeah - this old body seems to be pretty set in its ways - it doesn't matter what I do, I sleep when it lets me sleep. Period. When I was working, I used to get so frustrated - went to bed at the same time every night, but it didn't matter - 2-3 nights a week, no sleep at all - and by 3PM the next afternoon, I was pretty much useless. I finally learned not to get upset about not sleeping, though, because that would only pump adrenalin into my system and make things worse. I just made sure that my body at least relaxed and rested a certain number of hours each night even if sleep never came.

Probably the most significant adverse interplay has been between the sleep problem and the depression/anxiety - they really, really feed into each other! And depression's mental fog combined with sleep deprivation is a toxic mix = zombie - a hyper zombie, at that! Ah-haha!

Anyway, I feel for ya, guy! I guess at least it's comforting to know that there are others who can relate. lynn09

Lynn09, could your sleep be disrupted by the summer version of seasonal affective disorder?

Besides the obvious conditions, circadian rhythm is regulated by hormones and light.

Sleep has been a life long issue. In my teens, I developed non 24 hour circadian rhythm disorder. My 'body clock' is set to a 26 hour day rather than the standard 24. Every day or two my sleep times are pushed back about 2 hours, even if I go to bed at the same time as the previous night. In about 3 or 4 weeks I make my way around the clock.

This is chronic and difficult to treat. My sleep patterns dictate my life. It is not that bad right now, since I am attending university. My staggered class schedule makes it bearable. A job with set hours would be very difficult.

The changing seasons don't affect it at all.

[lynn09]

Hi, Didgee Eeyou! I have wondered about some sort of reverse seasonal affective disorder myself - I've always felt best during the cold, gray, fall and winter months, and have more depressive episodes when it's sunny and hot - probably ties somewhat into my allergies and other immune-system malfunctions, as well.

I've had an escalating problem with photosensitivity for decades, but especially since the last time I got sun-poisoning in the early-1990s at the Grand Prix in Detroit. My dermatologist in Michigan officially diagnosed me allergic to sunlight (UV-A & B) in 1997, along with synthetic fabrics and dyes - but the photosensitivity has continued to escalate to include all light since my last Stevens-Johnson Syndrome reaction to medication in 1999. So, who knows how much this severe photosensitivity contributes to the existing sleep disorder? Plus, my hormones have never been right. I went through menopause early (mid-40s), but am allergic to the replacement hormones - even the phytoestrogens, so no hormones for me! Again, who knows how and how much this contributes to all the nonsense?

I've always felt like my natural day is longer than 24 hours, too, and have always had to work very hard (and not very successfully) to force myself into some modicum of a "normal" sleep cycle in order to work. I would say my natural clock is set to a 28 to 30-hour day. Perhaps because I've been fighting this for so long, I can only manage to force myself into a shorter cycle for a limited period of time before my body just rebels and reasserts its natural cycle despite my efforts - and perhaps it's easier for me to force it during the shorter days of the colder months than during the longer and warmer days of spring and summer - thus, the "flip" to becoming nocturnal in the spring.

Who knows? At this late stage of the game, I guess it really doesn't matter - especially since I no longer have to adhere to a rigid work schedule. So, I'll just try to relax and go with the flow - sleep when I can, and try to be productive when I can't - and try not to lose any sleep over it all - AH-HAHAHA! Thanks for your input, Didgee Eeyou. Wishing you sweet dreams! lynn09