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#1
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For those who have been scarred, especially by parents, do you ever wonder why they did it? I know I'll never get an answer. I've traced as much of my family history as I can and I know abuse and MI has been going on for generations. I just can't wrap my mind around hurting children, especially your own.
Talked to my T about this along time ago and he thought I'd have to come to terms with not being able to get an answer...I guess I have to accept that...just wondering if others have had the same thought and how they came to terms with it |
![]() lynn P.
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#2
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I'm realizing that I will never get that answer and that it wouldn't really help to have an explanation anyway. The hurt was real, that'sall that matters for me now. Hope you get through this. I'm sure you will. HUGS>
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#3
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I want to answer this due to the fact that I have known abuse,and have asked my self this question throughout my life.Obviously no ones answer can be definitive on the subject,since the variety of people and facets of who they are is as individual to each person,event,and circumstance as a fingerprint.But I received abuse from a very wide array of people as a child,since I was literally living on my own since either late age 12...early age 13.
Prior to that,living with my mum....meant,since she was so busy living her own life and seeking her own desires...I fell to the wayside and into the hands of whomever she found to shoulder the responsibility or more exactly ...the guise of responsibility. In those circumstances...and among this wide variety of people,there were different reasons for behaviors...just from my viewpoint....that looking back...I gather to be the truth. With my mom and my uncle...I'd say partly...the generation,(they were born in the 40's...I was born in 67).Between their era and the circumstance in life...ie. the depression,the women and children being seen...not heard...the way they were treated as kids...(knocked out of chair at the dinner table if they spoke out of turn)...they in some ways adapted to be 'better' yet carried some learned behaviors over as well.I am very 'split' in my feelings about each and everything I see,experience,and feel.I can think of 12 abusers off the top of my head ...all pre age 14. Some were strangers and the exposure was due to being on my own so young.Others were people I was subject to strictly due to the fact they were given authority over me.The strangers ...I just cant know.Who knows what creates some of the monsters I met.The family members/caretakers...I saw their lives as cyclic abuse being projected out onto another...environment,personality features,ignorance...and alot of absolutely selfish fulfillment.I was raised mostly in a "stepfamily" situation.I know my step dad was abused mentally/physically...so I see the beatings as learned behavior.But the s a and the wife beating,and the life threatening,idk how that came into play.I think he liked power.He exerted power to a degree that not only were we robots but the neighborhood as well knew not to look at him wrong.He seemed to have an unwritten power over the police department as well.As far as hurting your own children,I fully get where you are coming from.I never spanked,I used '3 minute timeouts...writing 'standards ...like repetitive writing of a sentence applicable to the act...in some ways I functioned from the extreme opposite end ...as in gullible...lenient ect. I think my youth caused it and was clueless to step back and "know" it. I guess the bottom line...just from me as an individual...is that abuse can stem from so many factors...ignorance,malice,desire for power,subconscious repeat of learned behavior,anger,victimization,.....and .....(I mean this)in some cases.....pure unadulterated evil.I have seen it.....it really exists.well...since I feel a little triggered...I want to quit now...and I know I wrote waaay too much but...I am very hyperactive lol...and thats what I thought of. |
![]() lynn P., MoAnamCara
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#4
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Quote:
I can understand, accept even, but I'll never truly get it. I count myself lucky beyond all measure that I focused my traumas inwards, and didn't perpetuate the cycle. It is the great gift of my debilitating depression. Hugs. |
![]() lynn P.
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#5
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Wolfsong - wow is all i can say - a lot of good points.
for me - i have no idea why. i wonder now if this person knows what they did to me and how it has affected me. only recently have i dared to tell someone, my t. i wonder at times if this person (who is a family member and im in contact with) ever thinks about it. i wonder what they were thinking, how could they even think it was an innocent thing even though at the time maybe they justified it that way. lots of questions, no answers im afraid. but something good to examine i believe as i move forward hopefully. take care. Last edited by MoAnamCara; Feb 06, 2011 at 10:51 AM. Reason: typo |
#6
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My mother was raising a special needs child unknowingly with no support. When she would try to tell people I was different they blew her off. According to her she did the best she could until 1. I made it clear I didn't want her in my life (true but I was in 5th grade... duh, you still don't just hand them the house key and walk out) 2. she was so burnt out she had nothing left for either one of us... So... that was the reason for the neglect.
My uncle was physically abusive and gave honest answers as to why... What he did to me was like what his sisters (including my mother) did to him. Part of it just felt normal, part was revenge and part was resentment for having to care for me when he could be out playing with his friends. As for the majority of the SA he was a known pedophile when my mother met him. She knew it and moved in anyway. That still leaves tons of abuse without reasons but when I have been able to get answers those are what I got. I think they were honest... left the BS answers out.
__________________
There’s been many a crooked path that has landed me here Tired, broken and wearing rags Wild eyed with fear -Blackmoores Night |
![]() MoAnamCara
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#7
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MoAnamCara,It is possible that they realize....it is possible that they are completely oblivious.I myself am some one who is deeply self examining.Because I possess a very base,yet profoundly deep need to explore within and without..(ie. try to gain perspective) in regard to each and every thing I do wrong or that which has been done to me.BECAUSE I hate hate hate the fact I have ever hurt anyone.and...I never ever saw it coming (as far as the things which damaged me.)I surmise that my life experience created this 'over-the-top' facet of behavior.I desperately 'need' to examine me so that I don't become them.But it has created a self abasing facet to me which blurs the line of useful/healthy.
Because of my experiences...I look at my actions,and I can point out each and every wrong I have done.It is in the forefront of my mind nearly constantly.I obsess,I look at it microscopically,berate myself,pick it apart.For,to understand is to 'know better' ....thereby not becoming them.None of it is on a conscious level.It is upon reflection that I can see.And my lord does the wolf freakin' reflect haha. Perhaps this person in your life is holding guilt within for the things they have done.Perhaps it eats away at them.Or perhaps,they are oblivious that to this day you carry the scars.Perhaps they have stuffed the event away...are angry with them self.....perhaps the guilt has shifted to a bitterness which they are unaware of,yet it is projected outward as anger...though as layers are stripped down ...it is merely guilt. Here's what I think....there's a degree to which it is natural to want to know ...how an abuser came to the point where they have perpetuated an abuse.I think victims minds 'go there' ...mine certainly does...haha.But,I think....if we focus on the self...and ponder where ...within...these events have touched us...what behaviors ......these events may have created...ie,anger...insecurity...triggers...promiscuity...snippy behavior toward others...fears...rageful outbursts...over reaction....(on and on and on)....identify them....trace back to our experiences and how they evolved to this point....reflect,and put things in perspective...ie:I shut down when it comes to sex...or I act out sexually...for an example...(then consider what experiences created this mechanism...such as thoughts of "well,I am afraid to have a voice...I was unvalidated with regard to my feelings about sex" Or "I perceived the body was a dirty thing because I was treated as if I were dirty and discardable." Or..."I may be promiscuous because ,as a child,I desperately needed love,and the only "love " I perceived was bad love ...(molestation of one sort or another)...thereby creating a behavior of seeking love via sexually acting out.I mention the subject of sex in this as it is a universal thing which many relate to and an abuse of huge perpetuation...making it common.But ...one can pick apart...invalidation...criticism...anger...substance abuse...withdrawal...violence...ect...what ever the pressing issue. Point being...it is far far far more worthy a thought to look inside ...identify behaviors and thoughts which need alteration..find the source and set about to rectifying them.Because at the end of the day...really who TF even knows why we were the subject of another persons defecit.It is their defecit. |
![]() MoAnamCara
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#8
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wolfsong -
again, a lot of interesting things. i believe i reflect a lot in the same way you do, i also believe its not a healthy thing for me to do. i worry a lot, about the past, the present and the future when i reflect. most of this is negative behaviors/thoughts which need to be rewired - i am aware of this. i think the after effects are something i am only now thinking on. i wonder how much the events have shaped me. do i want someone/something to blame for my inadequacies? thats a big question for me. can i just accept? hmm... i dont know. But maybe if and once i examine it all it will help me to understand myself better and not feel so abnormal. i think you and i could sit and ponder and discuss for days! take care. |
#9
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(((((Omers))))) Her being burnt out was an excuse to slide off the chair of responsibility ,as was my mothers.I think a weak excuse too.With all my history...raising my first child at 18 on welfare with food stamps...my son was attached to my hip...if u saw me,you saw him.I reveled in his facial expressions...his delight of life,his needs being met,challenging him with games,puzzles,showing him every wonder and beauty life had to offer him.A parent doesn't have a right to be "burnt out"...If you lay down with someone and conceive a child...your freedom is no longer priority.A child cannot assume the position of a parent for themselves.My son was as you say 'different' he was adhd...and it was severe.I hope no one minimizes adhd because the consequences of it and the lengths I went to to alter his diet,incorporate activities and behavior modification as a very young parent was extravagant...and done alone.I ate peanut butter sandwiches only for years so the food stamps would feed and nourish him...I finally got a job making enough to pay rent and food and the balance was spent on having him in a private school/daycare.Grrrr.....that's all I can address with your suffering because I want to rage for what occurred to you and the trivial reasons you were given.If you'd been MY daughter in 5th grade,wild horses couldn't drag me away...and just fyi....I think you are awesome for what you have done with your life,and for your son....YOU ROCK!
Last edited by sabby; Feb 06, 2011 at 05:53 PM. Reason: administrative edit |
![]() Omers
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#10
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MoAnamCara.....worry and reflect are separate,one from the other.Worry is a useless and debilitating action since no amount of worry will ever alter the course of events.Reflection,on the other hand,can reveal insight...and change the course of behavior and the direction we steer into.(Granted the statement above is being typed by a warrior worrier hahahaha.I too worry on a grandiose scale).Undoubtably the events which have impacted you have shaped you in every imaginable manner.Considering the effects are a positive step toward self observation and alteration of behaviors and thought pattens.If you find yourself blaming...realize that is a portion of what naturally occurs in the process of realization and reflection.It's a piece in the process of pondrance.It wont always be this way.I can discuss this for days as well.I love it.Help and be helped.
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![]() MoAnamCara
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#11
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you are correct - worry and reflect are separate. but sometimes they are intertwined by me, not consciously, more by my own trained behavior. i never really thought about previous events having shaped me but the more i think about this and some little bits ive read, it makes perfect sense. i am scared, though, of getting to a point of anger and having these people as outlets of this anger, of blaming them. i dont want to go there. i also need to accept responsibility for my own actions.
oy! i apologize for taking this thread away from its original topic a bit. |
#12
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threads drive themselves hun ...and as far as the rest of your post hahaha read my other posts they will be very relative for you~W~
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![]() MoAnamCara
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#13
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all i can say is peas in a pod!
![]() take care. |
#14
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honestly, I avoid pondering the 'why?' of it all.. sometimes the reasons are obvious (I had a violent brother who simply had no control over his anger or himself and little impulse control), and other time they are not obvious. I don't understand it and know that I probably never could, and I worry sometimes that it would just be even more upsetting to consider 'why' it happened. you know?
__________________
![]() wife. mom. swimmer. writer. trying to live life in spite of depression, dissociation, and PTSD. member of a club that no one wants to join... |
![]() FFABD, MoAnamCara
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#15
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Yes...I do know sweetheart.((((Invisigirl))))
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#16
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invisigirl -
i completely understand you. and while i understand the adult stuff was because the person was a complete %$#!@, i still need to know the how and why of me ending up there and becoming one who allowed themselves to be subjected to that. for the childhood stuff, that is harder to tackle and question, and so yes i understand too not wishing to question it all too much. take care. |
#17
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I by no means want to suggest that the reasons I got while trying to figure out the never ending "why" are valid. There is NO valid reason for abusing another person, especially a child. I know though that many do not have the ability to as their abusers "why?" as I have. So I thought I would share the results of my little ventures into "why-ville".
Being a single mom to a special needs child (By choice, I adopted knowing he was special needs and I was single) I know that it is only an excuse and a poor one at that. Even on my worst days my son gets far more than I got from my parents at his age. I too am very introspective. My friend tease me about "staring at my belly button too long". In the end it doesn't really get us very far. Part of my reasoning against the Freudian schools of therapy. I know this sounds like I am blowing things off and/or super religous but love does conquer all. It takes time but your love for humanity eventually win over the consuming anger. And for those angry moments that are not covered over?... I have a nifty little "trap" made for rifle practice with a 22 caliber gun. Even has a place to hang the picture...eh...uh...I mean target. It works great for BB guns and plastic pellets (far less dangerous to have in the house than a real gun). I have also been known to peruse the goodwill stores for dishes that look like my mothers dishes when I was growing up. Cement garage floor+dishes=release! te he he... I do advise using the appropriate safety equipment for the above mentioned activities... safety glasses at the very least.
__________________
There’s been many a crooked path that has landed me here Tired, broken and wearing rags Wild eyed with fear -Blackmoores Night |
![]() MoAnamCara
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#18
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Omers -
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![]() Omers
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#19
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i have no idea why i was put through what i was for so many years, i do however know my so called mother chose to let him stay once she found out what he was doing because she is weak, selfish and scared of being alone in her old age! I do not go for the cyclic theory, if that was the reason for all the abuse in the world then we all would be abusing children after all the theory is that abused adults abuse children! I for one can see that being abused in every form has made me determined to protect children not abuse them! hey i would not want anyone to go through what i did and i guess everyone here feels the same!
I am happy not knowing the why, i just put it down to the fact he is a sick individual with a twisted mind and i am just waiting for his death so i can finally be rid of him for good! |
#20
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I have never been able to ask anyone except my mum.....and although I understood her points...still....my abuse was near to if not way beyond that of the infamous sybil.And I have to ask myself...what is the significant difference?Why didnt I abuse my kids?Why did I go to the complete other side?I have no clue.That's right Omers there are atrocious excuses out there for everything.Indeeeeed darling ...love conquers!And ya know what?I am not in the least ashamed to say ......I am weeping typing this.You are amazing!I would looove to shoot pict...oops....targets with you!
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#21
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I guess the reason I posted the question originally is
1. I have a deep-seated fear of becoming like "them" and 2. Because I have multiple abusers, some family, some not, - I worry that I project some type of message labeling me a victim. Thanks so much for all the great responses! |
#22
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CSC, the best explanation that I have heard is that the abused people who chose abuse too only see these 2 choices in life. You are either abused or you abuse. They don't want to be the victim anymore so they become the perpetrators. Those who have been abused and chose not to abuse see that there are other choices. I'm pretty sure that SA perpetrators were also SA. I used to work in child protection and every SA abuser who admitted guilt and talked more about it was abused too. What a terrible choice for them to make. They are cowards.
This does happen. You have learned behaviors which can still have effects today. This is what healing is about, though, to uncover these and make changes.
__________________
Don't let your problems or the world make you feel small. Stretch your arms out over your head. Take a deep breathe. Tell yourself that you are big. You are big, not small. You always have space, you are not trapped........ I'm an ISFJ |
#23
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Now I'm getting this thread way off track but it is making me think of so many other things...I know eye contact, or a lack of, is a "signal". I've talked to my T about this. I remember when I first learned to avoid people's eyes...in 7th grade my teacher said, "Child, I have never told anyone of the pain I see in your eyes" That's the first time I learned that the pain that I thought was secret could be visible. I stopped letting people see my eyes after that. I still avoid eye contact. My T wanted me to work on this, but I think he is probably the most uncomfortable for me to test this on - he knows more than anyone and letting him see my eyes would leave me feeling total exposed.
The other is my total and complete aversion to touch - I cringe when people get to close and even a pat on the back or a touch on the arm is physically painful and leaves me shaken. Are there others? |
#24
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I would think that these 2 things would improve after working through your past some.
__________________
Don't let your problems or the world make you feel small. Stretch your arms out over your head. Take a deep breathe. Tell yourself that you are big. You are big, not small. You always have space, you are not trapped........ I'm an ISFJ |
#25
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((((cant stop crying))))
((((everyone)))) ![]() ![]() |
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