[cheezlouise]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and not really sure if this is the place for this post, but I wanted some advice since this has been weighing on my mind for a while...

OK...several memories about my childhood have been coming back to me over the past few years. And I'm wondering if my mind is making a bigger deal out of it then it should be. I'm just confused.

Let me first state that my dad wasn't involved in my life until I was about six years old. He and my mother had a very complicated/tumultuous relationship which become more tumultuous after he came into my life. She frequently had rants/general conversations about him that probably should have been reserved for a best friend but instead were told to me, including TMI stuff about him always wanting to do **** and being a bit of a sexual pervert. Keep in mind I was 6-9 at the time although I'm pretty sure stuff like this shouldn't be told to a child at ANY age. Anyways, I remember her telling me once when I was very young about his ravenous sexual appetite and that he'd told her that I'd probably be alot like him when I grew up (i.e. sexually ravenous - his words in reference to me, not hers). Like I said, I was about 7 at the time I was told this. I've also remembered several occasions (3 distinctly) where we'd either been watching a movie that involved nudity/sex or listening to sexually explicitly music on a cd or the radio and him asking me "You like that alot, huh?" - I'd just flush and say nothing. I also remember how very soon after he started seeing me he began giving me a series of sex talks - I swear I got one every 3 visits or so for most of my childhood, always with an emphasis about how much I would come to love it. Anyways, I think some of this stuff is part of the reason I felt so bad and dirty for masturbation when I got older and why I'm still not completely comfortable with my sexuality now (still feel kind of "dirty" or like a pervert when thinking about sex or performing sexual acts). I remember being very, very uncomfortable being alone with men who weren't my relatives from elementary school through high school (though the fear wasn't quite as bad as I got older) and being very uncomfortable with the idea of sex even through the beginning of college. Is this normal for someone who hasn't been sexually abused?

My question is: am I just being stupid and making a big deal over nothing/splitting hairs? Is this type of talk a bit weird but not really a big deal? Was this kind of talk inappropriate or is talk like this a kind of sexual abuse? I'm so confused

[Sannah]

I think that this crosses the line. It was very inappropriate. Your parents crossed a boundary with this. Boundaries are very important and so is not giving a child information that is not age appropriate.

[Can't Stop Crying]

I am so sorry this happened to you. No child deserves to be put in this situation. Do you have a therapist you can talk to about this? You did not deserve this and it is not your fault. There is nothing wrong with you. You feel normal feelings that anyone would feel in an abnormal situation. The good news is that, with help/support, you can overcome these feelings. Keep posting and welcome to PC

[Evening]

*trigger warning*

You're not making a big deal over nothing no. My mother (who was an alcoholic) was VERY open about sex, and even now it disgusts me. When one of her boyfriends moved in they'd have sex and if the door was open it was open, she never bothered to shut it. And seeing as our rooms and beds were directly across from each other, I got my fair share of an eyeful.

I remember one time when she was drunk we were talking and a guy (who was LOT younger than her) walked past (he was a neighbours son) and she said to me in this sleazy disgusting voice 'mmmmsssshh I want to ***** him SO bad'. And then she was talking about our new shower head that you could change the pressure of and she said you could change it to 'soft', 'medium' and 'who needs a man!'. SO I had to have images in my head every time she took a shower.

She was also very honest about sex, the first time she told me about it was when I was 5. I remember she had picked me up from school and asked me if I knew what it was, then when I said 'when people kiss and hug' she said there was more too it than that and told me the basics of it, which at 5, and when I didn't ask to know, was rather disturbing. A little while later the same incident occurred, she wanted me to say it and was telling me to explain the P and V part to her to show I understood, but I refused, and she explained it to me again I guess to make sure I REALLY knew'.

When I was 3 she was drunk and having sex with a guy while I sat on the stairs and watched, she knew I was there and did nothing.

Well there are a few examples. I am really starting to feel uncomfortable with what I'm saying so I'll leave the examples at that. I'm sure you get the picture.
Through my life a lot of people have brought up either to me or my mother that I have acted as though I have been sexually abused, my therapist of 10 years even said to me rather sternly 'are you SURE you have NEVER been sexually abused by anyone?'. This confused me for a long time, I wondered if maybe I had been and I didn't remember. But I realise now, it was my mothers doings that have caused me to react the way I do.

Nobody has to lay a finger on you to abuse you. Someone told me once, it may have been on here, that what my mother did was sexual abuse by exposure. Perhaps what you have experienced is the same. It is very disturbing to have to go through these conversations and/or witnessing sexual acts (TV, computer or the person themself) with a parent. I can understand how uncomfortable you must feel about the situation. I don't really like to talk about it much myself.

You can't lessen these things just because nobody touched you. Abuse is abuse. Words and destroy you as a person, and sometimes the hardest part of non-physical abuse is when it is lessened by others because you don't have a physical scar to show. Yes what your father did was wrong, no you are not over-reacting.

[Can't Stop Crying]

well said evening

[cheezlouise]

@Sannah - Thank you very much for your input. I guess when it comes down to it, the point is being put in these situations made me very uncomfortable, and if I had a kid and someone said these things to my kid I wouldn't want my kid around them.

@Can't Stop Crying - Thank you for your kind welcome. I do have a therapist (recently began seeing one in conjunction with my bipolar treatment) and since it has been weighing on my mind a bit lately I plan to bring it up with him.

@Evening - I'm very sorry you had to go through that as a child. No child should be subject to that *hugs*. I think I, like you, functioned as my mother's confidante, basically assuming a role that was meant for a grown best friend, not a kid.

And yes, I am coming to terms with the fact that it's not something I should be ashamed of or feel bad about since I did nothing to elicit this behavior and I was the child and he was the adult. I think sometimes I tend to doubt the validity of my experiences - I've confronted my mother about some of the stuff he's said (that she overheard - not everything) and she confirms what happened but when I ask why it was allowed she just shrugs - so I guess that made me think that perhaps to everybody else it was no big deal so it shouldn't bother me. I feel that there was alot of minimizing/denying things about things I KNOW happened in my childhood that've kind of played into me questionin my own emotions and experiences - for instance, I remember times where I'd said something sassy to my mother and was hit in the throat (probably part of the reason I don't like people even pretend-choking me or putting their hands on my neck), being whooped with 2-3 belts using the buckle side of the belts, her combing my hair and me making her angry and having her pull my hair and ram my head into the closet door - she'd apologize later but tell me I shouldn't have made her angry. But that's another story. It's probably part of the reason I became a self-injurer around 12 or so - I guess I used it as a means to "prove" to myself that the pain or distress I was feeling was real and kind of to validate that my experiences (not necessarily pertaining to this) were real, if that makes sense?

I think I've sometimes felt that because the abuse/behaviors don't happen any longer now that I'm grown that I shouldn't feel angry about what happened in the past. But now I'm beginning to understand that what happened FELT wrong to me then and feels wrong to me now and that's what mattered. Sorry for the essay LOL.

I'm just trying to make sense of why my father felt it was appropriate to say such things to me. I have a half-sister through my dad's side (who, mind you, I've only known for a few years - it's complicated) and she truly strikes me as a very well-adjusted kid, I can tell. So it makes me wonder if he talked to me in a way that he didn't talk to her? I remember my mother not liking that my father would always bring "sexy" movies over for me and him to watch together and her stating that he probably wasn't allowed to show movies like that to my half-sister, that her mother wouldn't tolerate it (interestingly, even though my mother disagreed with it she didn't stop it). I just don't understand how my mother could know these things were being said (and told me things that I didn't need to know) and allowed it...

[madisgram]

his behavior was totally inappropriate. it confuses a child to be put thru these conversations, etc. i'm so very sorry this happened to you. if you think it would be beneficial i'd see a therapist re these events. it leaves scars on a person. you did not deserve that. hugs to you my friend.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by cheezlouise

I'm just trying to make sense of why my father felt it was appropriate to say such things to me. I have a half-sister through my dad's side (who, mind you, I've only known for a few years - it's complicated) and she truly strikes me as a very well-adjusted kid, I can tell. So it makes me wonder if he talked to me in a way that he didn't talk to her? I remember my mother not liking that my father would always bring "sexy" movies over for me and him to watch together and her stating that he probably wasn't allowed to show movies like that to my half-sister, that her mother wouldn't tolerate it (interestingly, even though my mother disagreed with it she didn't stop it). I just don't understand how my mother could know these things were being said (and told me things that I didn't need to know) and allowed it...

I don't think there is any "sense" to it. It sounds like your mother wanted your father's attention and was not able to be strong enough to not allow his sexualization of you. Your parents do not sound like they were very self-aware so the chances they would work to understand how best to raise a child for that child's healthy development weren't good?

http://drdeborahserani.blogspot.com/...oncerning.html

[eskielover]

I'm just trying to make sense of why my father felt it was appropriate to say such things to me. I have a half-sister through my dad's side (who, mind you, I've only known for a few years - it's complicated) and she truly strikes me as a very well-adjusted kid, I can tell. So it makes me wonder if he talked to me in a way that he didn't talk to her? I remember my mother not liking that my father would always bring "sexy" movies over for me and him to watch together and her stating that he probably wasn't allowed to show movies like that to my half-sister, that her mother wouldn't tolerate it (interestingly, even though my mother disagreed with it she didn't stop it). I just don't understand how my mother could know these things were being said (and told me things that I didn't need to know) and allowed it...

Many times the woman doesn't confront the situation because that would mean that she would have to take a stand against her husband in order to stand up for you......some women aren't in a financial place where they feel safe doing this or they just aren't strong enough to be able to stand up against a man even when they know what they are doing is wrong.

It is sad that the sexual values in society are so poor & so sick that they would even think (as in your fathers case) that what he was doing might be the right way to teach you about the subject. As our sexual acts have become freerer & freerer in society, the abuse has gotten greater & greater also (not that it didn't have it's bad situations before it's gotten this bad).

My opinion is that when we leave having sex in marriage behind closed doors (when there are children involved) & as an expression of the love that it's intended for.....there wouldn't be these kinds of problems within families or in society in general.

I was never sexually abused & my parents always kept their emotions for each other in private.....but even with that, my interest in sex was just NOT there. Sometimes we don't know if the "not there" is because of previous abuse, but it can also just be a part of us also & when combined with abuse, just causes it to possibly become more of a problem in the long run

Sorting through your thoughts helps....not letting society pressure your thinking into feeling that you aren't normal because you don't have the sex drive that society seems to be pushing these days.....talking through it in therapy especially after what you went through as a child can help.....I find it'd always wonderful to have someone you can talk through things with.....things you don't want to dump on friends or even want friends to know about. It takes time to work through things that have happened in our past & to be able to place those things into the appropriate perspective within our lives so that we can find a more peaceful existence really helps

Very sorry that you went through this as a child....it's something that NO CHILD should have experienced....but just remember, it is possible to get through those things that have happened to us & place them where we need to so that we can get on with our lives in a better way than we could when we leave those things in a place that constantly bothers us & effects us in very negative ways.

[cheezlouise]

@madisgram Thank you for your reply. I am currently seeing a therapist and I do plan to discuss it with him soon.

@Perna I dunno, perhaps my parents were both a bit desensitized towards sex or something? And it's true that my mother wasn't aware of the full extent of the situation - she knew the sex conversations were happening but didn't know exactly what was said - I remember complaining to her that my dad always wanted to talk to me about sex and how I didn't want to talk about it anymore since I felt I knew enough, but she just shrugged and said he felt it was his responsibility to make sure I was educated. She knew that he'd primarily bring graphic movies for us to watch together (never the kid movies that we had at our house that I wanted us to watch) but I never told her about the comments he'd make to me while watching the movies. My mother told me when I was older that my father never really knew how to be a dad and that maybe everyone assumed I was more mature for my age (I was a precocious child) than I really was...

@eskielover Thank you very much for your reply and support. I feel that I'm kind of taking the first steps to working through this and coming to terms with these issues by first recognizing that what happened was not OK and secondly accepting that there was nothing wrong with me that caused him to behave towards me the way he did, but rather something very wrong with him. I do hope to put these issues behind me in the future.

[BrokenNBeautiful]

ty for sharing this.

My aunt did that to me, too.

I was always ashamed of my sexuality and did not know why until I was far into adulthood and realized that she had committed in**st on me.

Billi

[Sannah]

Cheez, you are doing good work with all of this.