[Neirin]

I have never talked about this outside the internet and even when I'm just writing about it it is still difficult and I find it really hard to phrase it in a way that makes sense. I'm sorry if it turns out to not make sense.

I have been dealing with various issues over the last couple of years and have been in therapy for depression, anxiety and disordered eating. I have very low self-esteem, social issues, experience episodes of what I suspect might be dissociation, and possibly gender dysphoria. I was better for some time but right now I'm not doing well at all.

I always used to say that I don't know where my problems come from. Maybe it had to do with my parents' divorce, my personality type, maybe some chemical imbalance in my brain, genetic disposition... something like that.

When I was in therapy we rarely talked about the past. We talked about the present and how I could deal with it better. I claimed that nothing bad happened in the past, so we never looked into it.

I know that something happened to me. But I can't tell anyone because I blame myself for it and because I don't actually think that what happened could possibly have been so traumatic that it caused my life to spiral down like this.

I tried talking about this before online and I remember that it caused an argument between various people who were part of the conversation. Some of them said that because at that time I didn't say no and because I wan't forced to do anything, it cannot possibly have traumatised me in any way and I was looking in the wrong direction for the cause of my problems. Others said that what happened to me was abuse.

The facts are that I wasn't a child anymore, that I wasn't forced to do anything, that I wasn't hurt in any way. I could've simply said no if I really didn't want it.

I don't know who to talk to. I don't even know how to talk about it.

[kaliope]

i think that the fact that you have difficulty talking about it and you say you blame your self indicates that you feel something was "wrong" about it so despite the circumstances, it may still have been abuse. Many women can leave abusive relationships, but choose to stay, it doesnt make them any less abused. please talk about what happened. it is horrible how much abuse impacts your life. it is like you were describing my therapy. things went very well for a few years but i seemed to get worse and worse cause i wasnt dealing with the trauma i didnt know i had.

[H3rmit]

Yes, it can sure be abuse if you don't say no. There's an interesting book called "The gift of fear." One of the things it explains is that people who like to abuse select their victims and test their compliance. In other words - they find out who's going to find it hard to say no. You can see how this fits with your question. And that's only one example of how it can be abuse.

I hope you get some gentler treatment. Around here, I would think you likely will as many people have experienced abuse and discuss it here.

You know, even if someone puts up with some simple abuse such as yelling, and then says they deserve it and totally accepts it (behaviour I have seen) doesn't mean what happened isn't abuse. It just means both of the people are kind of messed up about it and don't see it clearly for what it is, both the abuser and the victim. I think that kind of thing happens a lot.

[ThisWayOut]

The only time saying "no" comes into play in determining anything is the legal definition of rape (at least within the us). Abuse has no "consent" clause... and as stated, abusers will either induce compliance through fear or other tactics.
I struggled (and sometimes still do) with the concept of some of what I went through as "not my fault". I grew up in an environment that lead me to believe it is easier and safer and "right" to simply go along with whatever the other person wanted, regardless of what I wanted or didn't want. I didn't say no beyond one the first time. It took me a long time to believe that it didn't make it right or ok for the other person to do what they did.
I hope you can find a safe way to process that stuff. I might also suggest trying to talk to a therapist about it. A lot of what makes a traumatic experience traumatic is our reaction to it. One of the things they teach when working with trauma clients is that everyone takes things differently. What brings about a huge reaction in one person may not even register for another, and that's OK.

[Neirin]

I was 13/14 at that time. Too young to give consent, if you believe the law. I still could have done anything to get out of the situation instead of letting it happen again and again over months. I don't know what stopped me from doing it but I guess it was either being ashamed and afraid no one would believe me or because secretly I wanted it. According to my body I wanted it and still do. When I think about it when I'm awake I'm mostly disgusted by what happened. But images of what happened often creep into my mind when I'm half-asleep and then I get aroused and do disgusting things. I'm so ****ing disgusted by myself all the time and I can't get this out of my head. I don't understand why my mind and my body tell me things that are so contradictory.

[hannabee]

Let me start with the human brain is not fully developed until age 26 or so. This is fairly new information that I, as a parent, wish I would have know much sooner. I don't think a 13 or 14 year old has a good grasp on sexual ramifications and that is why we as a society have the laws in place to try and protect them. At 13 or 14 we are most certainly running on mostly hormones, something that is hard to control.

You don't say who your abuser was. I am assuming it was perhaps an older family member? A cousin, maybe? Maybe an older boy? who was a friend? Either way, you were not developed enough to make a truly consensual agreement and you should not feel guilty because your body was more developed than your brain. I think arousal at what happened is rather a "knee jerk" reaction. In other words, your body can't really help it.

At this point, I think you need to talk about this with a counselor so you can come to terms with what happened and let it go. You can have a wonderful life ahead of you if you will stop beating yourself up over this. Big hug for you.

[Neirin]

It was my father's girlfriend. So not only did I let her do this but also betrayed my father. It feels like I have some kind of sexual connection with my dad because me this, even if this doesn't make sense. Our relationship is not exactly good, so to speak.

I don't know if I can talk to anyone. I'm already struggling with writing it online, actually saying it out loud seems impossible. I'm not even sure if I care enough at this point. My life is already messed up and I doubt that it will ever be any different.

[sherbet]

I'm not sure how old you are now, Neirin, but it sounds like you're thinking back a number of years.

Have you hung out with any 13-14 year-olds recently? I think sometimes when we think back, we think of ourselves as slightly younger versions of the same person we are now. Even a very mature 13-14 year-old is NOT a miniature version of an adult and is incapable of thinking as an adult. You cannot realize this at that age, but adults should know better because they've been there. I feel like if you watched some children that age you'd realize that they are, well, children. In fact, I think you'd be struck by how young and immature they seem.

I'm very sorry you feel so guilty about this. Know that an adult old enough to be your parent or dating your parent cannot get consent from a 13-year-old. Many children that age are old enough to be very curious about sex and to want it…that's normal. Having a positive reaction to a sexual experience at that age is normal too…we're biologically wired that way. That doesn't mean that a 13-year-old is mature enough to give consent to an adult though.

[Neirin]

I'm 19 now.
If today a 13 year old would tell me that this was happening to them, I would do anything to get them out of that situation. In my own case I still feel completely different. There is a part of me that knows that what happened wasn't normal and that it is not me who should be blamed for it. I can't accept that, though. There is still this other part of me that tells me that I wanted it to happen and I still get off on it.

I tried approaching this topic somewhere else, in a more thoretical manner, not saying which part I played in the situation. Someone commented with "The boy probably liked it a lot ". The comment got deleted but not after I had seen it.
I don't know how I can make myself believe that I didn't want it. No one actually believes that.

[sherbet]

I'm sorry about the insensitive comment. But wanting/liking it at 13 does not equate with consent…although I'm sure it makes this whole thing feel incredibly confusing.

Quite frankly, if I were 13 and a similar opportunity presented itself, I'm not sure I would have said no. I suspect many people would have done the same in your situation. Whether you "liked it" isn't really the point--we're wired to "like it." You might have known better but it is entirely unfair to put a 13-year-old in the position of having to say "no" to an adult…precisely because a child that age is likely not to say "no." Children that age are notoriously hormonal, curious about sex, and anxious to try it. Adults know this and that's exactly why they need to stay away from 13-year-olds.

Be kinder to yourself and please do try to bring this up in therapy.

[hannabee]

I was thinking you were a female, but that doesn't change my original thoughts. Your age is what makes it abuse. This woman knew it was wrong. Maybe she wanted to get even with your Dad for something??
Maybe you were angry with your Dad for something? Divorce, mistreating your Mom? Whatever was going on at the time, I really think you should try and let it go. I think a lot of people have regrets for things they did as teenagers, you're not alone in wishing things had gone differently but, you have a really long life ahead of you and you really need to choose happiness over guilt. You did nothing wrong, you were a VICTIM, I don't care if you think you were enjoying it. That is what victims do...they rationalize.

Yes ... It's abuse ... Even if you don't say no ...

Please discuss this with your therapist. If you find it difficult to bring it up, then print out what's been written here and show it to them.

I had a difficult time discussing it at first and would write and mail a letter to my therapist and then we'd process it our next appointment.

It is not your fault! ... You are not to blame! ... And this woman is horrid to have broken your trust and violated you this way!

Sincerely,
Pfrog!

[Neirin]

There seem to be two contradictory parts of myself, one who tries to convince me that what happened to me was wrong and that it wasn't my fault, and another that keeps telling me that I wanted it and that it was my own responsibility.
I keep telling myself lies because they feel true to me. While the truth feels like a lie. I keep saying "I had a sexual relationship with my dad's girlfriend" and it feels true. The actual truth is that she preyed on me, used me, made me do things I didn't want to do and manipulated me into thinking I wanted them. I know that this is what really happened but I don't believe it. It doesn't make sense to me.

It happened when I was 13/14. I was going through a difficult phase anyway, so maybe that made me more susceptible. I had a fairly normal childhood up until my parents broke up when I was 11. It got difficult afterwards because not only got I caught in the crossfire of accusations and had to deal with my mother's depression but I also felt abandoned because everyone was busy dealing with their own problems. My parents are great people, actually. My mother was always very loving but kind of chaotic while my father was more distant but supportive. My father was always trying to give me stability but this also meant that he worked a lot, which means that I never really built a relationship with him as a child. We spent so little time with each other that he always remained a stranger to me. In my mother's case the problem was that no matter how much love she showed me, she didn't quite realise that it is not optimal to dump all your personal problems on your prepubescent child. I never wanted to bother my parents with my insignificant problems, which was one thing, while the other thing was that I spent a lot of time alone back then. I was living with my mother who worked the whole day and often went out at night for dates. I didn't have many friends back then, so I didn't have much social interaction in the daytime either. I was practically alone all the time. This is far from being the worst situation someone can be in, I realise that, but I think if I had been less alone, had have had some kind of support, someone to talk to, things might have went differently.

This was the easy part.

I spent every second weekend and parts of the holidays with my father. His then girlfriend moved in at some point but also before that she was around a lot. She was nice. I don't know what else to say about her because that was basically it. She was nice, she treated me well, spent time with me, bought me things, cared about me. She helped me a lot back then because when I got into arguments with my father she was always able to calm the situation because she understood me in a way that my father didn't and he listened to her. She was very affectionate with me right from the start, always hugged me and stuff... which I didn't think about back then. There was a point when I felt that something was not quite right, I guess. She did these things which can be interpreted either way. She hugged me a bit too long, put her hand on my leg, started making weird conversations where she asked me really private things. It made me feel uncomfortable but more in the "my parents want to explain sex to me" way.

I don't know how to talk about the rest.

I woke up to her masturbating next to me. This happened more than once. I don't know if it happened the first time but at some point she started using my hand. I don't know if she ever knew that I was awake. We never talked about it and moved on like everything was normal and for a long time I wasn't even sure if it really happened.

She "accidentally" walked into me half dressed. She "forgot" to lock the bathroom door. She hugged me and pressed herself against me and commented on it when I had an erection. I remember sitting on my bed while she was jerking me off, asking me again and again if I liked it until I said yes. She came into my bed when my father had left for work and touched me.

She never forced me or hurt me or threatened me. She simply did what she did and I let her.

The weird thing is that I don't know what I felt. If I liked it, if I wanted it, what I was thinking or feeling while this was happening.

I don't think that anyone ever suspected anything even though I started to act weird. Back then I didn't realise why I was suddenly lashing out at people or why I got upset so easily. I started having breathing difficulties and then had to explain to my mother why I was sitting on the balcony in the middle of the night, pressing wet towels against my face (it made me feel like I could breathe easier). She took me to a doctor and I was diagnosed with mild asthma and given an inhaler. I actually think that these were my first anxiety attacks. I refused to visit my dad any longer, made up reasons why I didn't want to go. I developed some kind of social phobia which alienated me even more from everyone around me. People at school thought I was weird. I started lying a lot and made up stories about friends and how I spent my time because I didn't want my parents to know how lonely I was. I self-harmed for the first time when I was 14 or 15. I realised that it felt great to not eat and gradually slipped into an eating disorder. I actually felt good for some time while I was starving myself and puking until I nearly passed out. I spent seven weeks at a psychiatric day care unit for children and teenagers when I was 16 which was really ****ing helpful ("Imagine yourself as a piece of furniture! ... Oh, you imagined yourself as a tv stand. This probably means that you have low self-esteem!"). I was diagnosed with severe depression, anxiety and an unspecified eating disorder. I was prescribed antidepressants and managed my life quite well for some time. I stopped taking my medication last year and slipped back into a constant state of not caring.

I didn't think about what happened for a long time. I hadn't forgotten but I simply didn't think about it most of the time. I never developed a normal relationship with sex. I don't want to have sex, I don't want to think about sex, I don't want to be perceived as a person capable of sexual desires and actions. When I'm awake this usually works out. But my body betrays me as soon as my brain shuts down. I often wake up, aroused, with these thoughts and images in my mind. I feel completely disgusted with myself afterwards when I realise what I did.

Maybe what happened back then doesn't even have anything to do with why I'm so messed up. Maybe it does. I don't know if I even care.

I don't even feel bad. I feel nothing most of the time.

[sherbet]

This would leave anyone confused. This was completely inappropriate on HER part, not yours. It's really sad you feel like you did something wrong and that this ended up driving a wedge between you and your father. Do bring this up with your therapist! You deserve a chance at a happy adult life.

[angelicgoldfish05]

I don't know what to say except that I read everything you wrote and I'm sorry this happened to you. You are not at fault. In any way shape or form. It is not your fault. As an adult, she held more power than you. She initiated. She used you when she thought you were asleep! I can't imagine how this must have made you feel and I understand why you say that you feel nothing and you don't even know if you care. I hope you can seek some help from someone who specializes in trauma. Someone who specializes in sexual abuse would be even better. There are a couple of books out, I don't know if you are a reader. If you are I'll look them up and get you the names. Most of all, please know that you did not deserve this, and that it was not your fault. It was abuse and she took advantage of you. I hope she is not continuing to do this with others. You are not alone in this. Help is there and there are many who care about you and can safely help you heal.

[mimsies]

Originally Posted by Neirin

I'm 19 now.
If today a 13 year old would tell me that this was happening to them, I would do anything to get them out of that situation. In my own case I still feel completely different. There is a part of me that knows that what happened wasn't normal and that it is not me who should be blamed for it. I can't accept that, though. There is still this other part of me that tells me that I wanted it to happen and I still get off on it.

I tried approaching this topic somewhere else, in a more thoretical manner, not saying which part I played in the situation. Someone commented with "The boy probably liked it a lot ". The comment got deleted but not after I had seen it.
I don't know how I can make myself believe that I didn't want it. No one actually believes that.

I can absolutely believe you didn't want it. I can believe it if you did want it. I can also believe that you both did and didn't want it to happen. ANY of those or any variation thereof would be perfectly normal. And just to be clear, you were DEFINITELY still a child at the time. I can say that as the mother of a VERY mature, precocious, and intelligent 15 yr old boy. He often seems much older than he is, but he is definitely still a child.

No matter whether you wanted it or not, the adult had NO business or right to put you in that situation. Adults are supposed to protect kids, not exploit them. It WAS abuse, and it made you feel bad, and you STILL feel bad about it. You're body couldn't help reacting to sexual stimulation- that isn't your fault. If you liked it, that is because it is normal for a kid to like the attention, AND the stimulation.

I totally understand feeling ashamed and guilty. The situation I was in at practically 12 (less than a month shy) was CLEARLY rape, assault, and abuse- even if it had happened to an adult, it was clearly not an OK thing to do to a person. The thing is... I still blame myself, feel guilty, feel ashamed. People who have been abused commonly blame themselves, and feel... contaminated, damaged, unworthy... those feelings, no matter how strong, don't dictate the truth. Even if you blame yourself, it was the woman who was to blame, not you- even if every fiber and hormone in your being wanted it at the time, was screaming "yes!" it was still HER fault, and it was abuse. The way you feel now, is only proof that what she did was wrong- if it had been OK to do that to a kid, the kid wouldn't feel so lousy about it later on, when he is older.

[calgal98]

Originally Posted by Neirin

I was 13/14 at that time. Too young to give consent, if you believe the law. I still could have done anything to get out of the situation instead of letting it happen again and again over months. I don't know what stopped me from doing it but I guess it was either being ashamed and afraid no one would believe me or because secretly I wanted it. According to my body I wanted it and still do. When I think about it when I'm awake I'm mostly disgusted by what happened. But images of what happened often creep into my mind when I'm half-asleep and then I get aroused and do disgusting things. I'm so ****ing disgusted by myself all the time and I can't get this out of my head. I don't understand why my mind and my body tell me things that are so contradictory.

I struggled with this for a LONG time. I was molested by my older brothers, individually, as a young girl, 9-11 years old. I didn't say no and was consumed with guilt and fear. I believed I was at fault and that my parents would blame me and consider me more flawed than I already thought they believed of me. I thought God couldn't love or forgive me and that I wasn't worthy of forgiveness. It was a lot for a kid to deal with. I coped poorly and began a journey of self hate and anger. I'm over 60 now and just beginning to talk about it and how it has affected my life for so long. It was a relief to talk to someone (Therapist) finally about it. Learning to love myself after a LIFETIME of self hate and depression, including suicidal thoughts and disfunction. Talking about it helps.

[hannabee]

I implore you to get some outside help with this. Whether a trained professional can convince you that you did nothing wrong remains to be seen. But, you need to start somewhere. Don't let this ruin your life and cause you to make poor decisions. You have so much ahead of you and you deserve a wonderful life, like everyone does. Please PLEASE get some help.

[H3rmit]

Originally Posted by Neirin

I'm 19 now.
If today a 13 year old would tell me that this was happening to them, I would do anything to get them out of that situation. In my own case I still feel completely different. There is a part of me that knows that what happened wasn't normal and that it is not me who should be blamed for it. I can't accept that, though.

There is still this other part of me that tells me that I wanted it to happen and I still get off on it.

You are still quite young. By the time you're 30 I wouldn't be surprised if you have a much deeper understanding and acceptance of it.

Also, even if a part of you did want it, clearly it was not the major part. Note, I said "if" and hypothetical. I only mention it because you mention it as a possibility in your mind. Clearly it is not your dominant response. It sounds like you are a little unclear if there was any part of you that wanted or accepted it happening in some way. I can imagine feeling some flattery, depending on the persons involved. And all those feelings are okay. And feelings are hard to entangle. But you're not bad or at fault for having them.

[H3rmit]

PS I'm thanking people because I'm grateful people are here trying to share and help this young man. Good luck, Neirin. It's good you opened up instead of letting this rot and fester inside you and continue to hurt you.