[Albatross2008]

This article lists "forgetting" as an emotional abuse tactic.

I am so sick to pieces of saying the same thing over and over again. There are three adult family members living here, besides my husband and me. We're the homeowners. When I make a request about how I want something done, it isn't done that way. Or it might be, for a few days, and then it's right back to not doing it. Excuse, "I forgot." I speak up, I'm made to feel like I'm being petty, even though I have carefully explained my reasons for wanting it that way. The latest example, I want the broom (which is kept in the space between the refrigerator and the wall) bristles up. If it's bristles down, our cat will chew on the straw. Even if you think you've put it far enough back in there that he won't be able to, he'll reach in there with his front paw and slide it out, so he can chew on the straw. I don't know how many times I've said this, and yet this evening I found the broom put in there bristles down, AGAIN. This is only one of many examples. If I get angry to any degree at all, the accusation will be that I am making too big a deal over JUST a broom. It isn't about JUST the broom. It's about me not being listened to in my own house.

What good does assertiveness training do if you use your skills, communicate clearly and plainly, and it just gets ignored? Do other people have to repeat themselves constantly, or is it only me? How many times should I keep having the same conversation with adults? I understand repeating yourself with children, because you're teaching them, but with adults I think I should only have to say something once.

At what point does "but I keep forgetting" become "I don't regard you enough to make an effort to remember"?

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by Arbie

This article lists "forgetting" as an emotional abuse tactic.

(Good article btw)

I am so sick to pieces of saying the same thing over and over again. There are three adult family members living here, besides my husband and me. We're the homeowners. When I make a request about how I want something done, it isn't done that way. Or it might be, for a few days, and then it's right back to not doing it. Excuse, "I forgot." I speak up, I'm made to feel like I'm being petty, even though I have carefully explained my reasons for wanting it that way.

How many times have you explained yourself and your reasons? If the explaination didn't work after like the second or third time, you are wasting your breath. I know for me, consequences or pain help me to change. I dont mean that not listening to a homeowner about their wishes is something that requires pain but it bothers you enough that you want it to change.

The latest example, I want the broom (which is kept in the space between the refrigerator and the wall) bristles up. If it's bristles down, our cat will chew on the straw. Even if you think you've put it far enough back in there that he won't be able to, he'll reach in there with his front paw and slide it out, so he can chew on the straw. I don't know how many times I've said this, and yet this evening I found the broom put in there bristles down, AGAIN.

What happens when you notice that the broom is down and bring it to someone's attention? Do they yell or ignore? Apologize and actively listen? Its less about the broom and more about not being heard. Have you tried having a family meeting when something negative has not happened or is not occurring to explicitly explain how much not being heard upsets you? How its not just about the broom? Does this happen with other things as well? Sometimes you have to catch people outside of conflict in order for them to really hear. The other thing is acceptance. Is it more important for you to get angry about the broom or is it more important to just fix it so that cat is safe? My gut tells me that its the not listening to you other times that is the heart of the issue. The surface problem is the broom. Acceptance does not mean approval. I would say you should think about and write down examples of other more important areas where people are not listening to you. And then think about what it is you do for these people that not doing would have an impact. Forget the broom and just right it when you see it. Are any of these adults parents or children? Do you do any chores for them like laundry or other things they could do for themselves? Are you financially helping them out? You should sit down with them after writing down some stuff about what bothers you and lay out consequences. They could be as small as not preparing food they can eat or doing small things to help them out to requiring rent, and help with the bills. Again, the broom is the smaller issue in the grand scheme. Of course be prepared for them to minimize your issue and ask why in the world you would tie their actions that they say are small to something as big as financial help. The answer is: they are the ones choosing to not adhere to these rules so it is their problem if they do not like the consequences.

What good does assertiveness training do if you use your skills, communicate clearly and plainly, and it just gets ignored? Do other people have to repeat themselves constantly, or is it only me? How many times should I keep having the same conversation with adults? I understand repeating yourself with children, because you're teaching them, but with adults I think I should only have to say something once.

At what point does "but I keep forgetting" become "I don't regard you enough to make an effort to remember"?

Assertiveness only works if it is backed up by action. If you assertively explain the issue and how you want it fixed and it is not backed up by a consequence with follow-through, they will never change. Why change if you say what bothers you and they ignore it and all you do is say it over and over again? Its really a shame that people can have such little regard for someone elses wishes like this. I taught my kids how to do their own wash at like age 12. I got sick of them not bringing their stuff down and keeping it neat so not my problem. I have said over and over again it is their responsibility to switch their wash, mind the dryer and restart if necessary and get it out of the machines when its done. I have moved wet clothes out of the washer to use it and taken dry clothes and put them into a basket unfolded in order to use it. I always give the warning..." I have to do wash in an hour. Please stay on top of yours so I know when you are done". When an hour has gone by I ask them to check it. After that they are on their own and I go about my business. That is just one example I could think of.

My point is if its peace you want you have to set limits, expectations and consequences for everything even if its small in order to have peace. Being 'right' mightn seem necessary but its more about having peace.

[Albatross2008]

What happens when I mention something? Usually a chorus of "I didn't do it. That's not mine."

Everybody is on different diets and different schedules here, including my husband and me, so we all do our own cooking and cleaning up afterward. We also all do our own laundry. So there is no "I won't cook or do laundry if you don't follow the rules."

Recently we had a family meeting, during which we all agreed to clean the sink after washing the dishes, and not leave chunks of food in the drain. Two days after the meeting, guess what I found in the drain. Not a little, but a lot. After we had *just* discussed it. I pretty much blew my stack over that one, and I did finally come right out and say that everybody could either follow the rules or get out. I'll grant you I did NOT say it as nicely as I said it here, and there was profanity involved. I ended up apologizing for blowing up. But you know, when I say it nicely, everybody just ignores it. Since that incident, everybody's been really good about not leaving food in the drain. I guess blowing up is what it took to finally get through? But that makes me feel like *I'm* the abusive one.

My daughter told me i need to remind people, and say it nicely every time without getting mad. But I didn't think "Whose coat is that on the couch? Whose half-empty glass of milk is that in the living room?" was a discussion that needed to be had with adults, let alone repeatedly.

Originally Posted by Arbie

This article lists "forgetting" as an emotional abuse tactic.

At what point does "but I keep forgetting" become "I don't regard you enough to make an effort to remember"?

Your frustration is understandable.

You can post the house rules in writing. And if they continue to break them, you can give them a written warning stating that they will be asked to vacate for non-compliance.

[Albatross2008]

When I was in my first marriage, a letter appeared in a newspaper advice column. A woman was writing about her husband who kept recycling the same two jokes at every party they went to. One was, "I'd like to die in bed, being shot by a jealous husband." The other was, if she was seen talking to anybody who happened to be male, to walk up to him and say, "Are you trying to steal my wife, you horse thief?" She didn't like either of these, because one puts her husband in bed with another woman, and the other calls her a horse. If I remember correctly, she did try to speak up, but he brushed her off because after all, it's only a joke.

The advice was to tell him once, when he's in a good mood and there's no conflict or distractions going on, that those jokes hurt her and to please retire them. If he does it again after that, he is abusing her deliberately.

My ex-husband disagreed. "What if he forgets?" Of course he'd say that, because he wanted an excuse to keep on doing what I told him many times was hurting me. Make jokes at my expense, aim put-downs at me, call me by some demeaning nickname, etc. If he excused this man, he could just go on ignoring my feelings too. "Yeah, well, I forgot. So what? I'm human. I'm not perfect." Which, some thirty years later, is the same justification our daughter and other family members are using.

About the letter, I say if her feelings are important enough to him, he'll make an effort to remember. Just the fact that what she asks of him is so inconsequential that he can just blow it off, that is in itself a sign of abuse. Of course, I was living the same situation at the time. And appear to still be.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Arbie

This article lists "forgetting" as an emotional abuse tactic.

I am so sick to pieces of saying the same thing over and over again. There are three adult family members living here, besides my husband and me. We're the homeowners. When I make a request about how I want something done, it isn't done that way. Or it might be, for a few days, and then it's right back to not doing it. Excuse, "I forgot." I speak up, I'm made to feel like I'm being petty, even though I have carefully explained my reasons for wanting it that way. The latest example, I want the broom (which is kept in the space between the refrigerator and the wall) bristles up. If it's bristles down, our cat will chew on the straw. Even if you think you've put it far enough back in there that he won't be able to, he'll reach in there with his front paw and slide it out, so he can chew on the straw. I don't know how many times I've said this, and yet this evening I found the broom put in there bristles down, AGAIN. This is only one of many examples. If I get angry to any degree at all, the accusation will be that I am making too big a deal over JUST a broom. It isn't about JUST the broom. It's about me not being listened to in my own house.

What good does assertiveness training do if you use your skills, communicate clearly and plainly, and it just gets ignored? Do other people have to repeat themselves constantly, or is it only me? How many times should I keep having the same conversation with adults? I understand repeating yourself with children, because you're teaching them, but with adults I think I should only have to say something once.

At what point does "but I keep forgetting" become "I don't regard you enough to make an effort to remember"?

my cats and dogs and the guinea pigs do the same thing. we solved the problem by putting a plastic container in there fitting the size from front of fridge to back to the wall and the wideth of space between the fridge and wall and about 2 ft high. worse thing that happened was the first time the pets reached in there they could not pull the broom because their paws could not get between the container/ wall and fridge. their only option was pulling the container downwards from the top. they all learned very quickly a broom falling towards them is not what they wanted to happen, the container tips, broom stick falls towards then they scurry out of the way. Cured the straw chewing and I didnt have to get irritated with my family for putting the broom away wrong. there was no longer a wrong way to put it away. cant miss a container that fills the whole space, and pets stay way.

on the other hand if this is a situation where you need the broom a certain way for your own OCD ways (not saying you have OCD I do ) the solution is easy. i do the sweeping up now not my family when it matters to me how things get put away.

just a couple ideas that helped me that may help you.

[mimsies]

How old are the other adults? Are they your kids? Just curious.

My 19 y.o. son forgets to do what I have asked him to and forgets when he did something counter to what has been asked and is often legitimately surprised that he forgot. I have never felt his forgetfulness was a comment on his regard or lack thereof for me. With him, I am pretty sure it is forgetfulness and poor executive functioning due to learning disabilities, anxiety, and PTSD.

I am pretty clear my son is not just abusing me by being forgetful. Although not unheard of, usually teens and young adult kids don't abuse their parents. I am very patient with and kind to him, so we rarely have conflicts. He tries really hard to be thoughtful conscientious and is very responsive to positive feedback.

I find with most people angry rejoinders are rarely effective at behavior modification, but patient reminders are. When someone starts yelling angrily, people -all people- either get defensive and resentful, get scared and avoidant, or tune out the person yelling. It is what people do, especially young people. Remember just because someone is legally an adult, doesn't actually mean they are mature. Most people's brains don't reach adult maturity until at least 25, many not til 30.

Large brief reminder notes/signs in problematic areas can be helpful.

I also find that picking battles is necessary. If there are more than 3-4 details being worked on, people WILL start disregarding all of them. What are the really important things? Cleaning the drain, broom storage position, and 2 more things tops. After those become habit, move on to the next 3-4 things.

[TishaBuv]

I have been chronically tormented by someone who keeps ‘forgetting’. I did everything possible to make myself unmistakably clear in our communication. Yes, eventually it comes down to this is an abuse technique. I exposed it through pure logic. It is impossible to keep forgetting after we have had this issue so many times! And then...this person still invalidates me by refusing to acknowledge this truth. Eventually, I only have myself and just have to stand firm in the face of this, alone. I told him, “The jig is up. I’m on to you.” And then this charade stops. It stops because I stop setting myself up to expect anything from this person, who obviously doesn’t want to give it.

[Albatross2008]

Thanks for all of the good advice. I am implementing it.

To answer Mimsies, my husband and I have living with us my 33-year-old daughter, her 35-year-old boyfriend, and my 23-year-old nephew.

Nephew, I'm most likely to excuse. He was never taught to do chores or be organized, because my sister is not capable of it herself. She was severely injured from being hit by a car as a child. It left her with narcolepsy and the inability to lift more than 5 pounds. Much of the time, she's in at least some stage of sleep. She just couldn't do the work, or show him how to do it. Therefore, it didn't get done, and he got used to it not being done. That's neither his fault nor his mother's. He's staying with us now, and we're helping him learn what he didn't have a chance to learn before.

Daughter is unable to work more than part-time, if that. She's just recently out of a hospitalization. She has bipolar disorder and is on disability. She is very helpful with the chores most of the time. All three of them pay us a small amount of rent.

Daughter's boyfriend just moved here from Boston. They had been dating years ago, went their separate ways, and eventually (I'm glad!) reunited. He recently started a job at the same place my husband works, and now they're saving up to get their own house.

It turned out, on the broom thing--my husband was the culprit! He claims to be the only one in the house that has never been told that the cat eats the bristles if they're pointed down. Well, now he's been told. And he's a really BIG one on "I forgot." He's a creature of habit, in his mid-50's, and very resistant to changing how he does things.

[mimsies]

Originally Posted by Arbie

Thanks for all of the good advice. I am implementing it.

To answer Mimsies, my husband and I have living with us my 33-year-old daughter, her 35-year-old boyfriend, and my 23-year-old nephew.

Nephew, I'm most likely to excuse. He was never taught to do chores or be organized, because my sister is not capable of it herself. She was severely injured from being hit by a car as a child. It left her with narcolepsy and the inability to lift more than 5 pounds. Much of the time, she's in at least some stage of sleep. She just couldn't do the work, or show him how to do it. Therefore, it didn't get done, and he got used to it not being done. That's neither his fault nor his mother's. He's staying with us now, and we're helping him learn what he didn't have a chance to learn before.

Daughter is unable to work more than part-time, if that. She's just recently out of a hospitalization. She has bipolar disorder and is on disability. She is very helpful with the chores most of the time. All three of them pay us a small amount of rent.

Daughter's boyfriend just moved here from Boston. They had been dating years ago, went their separate ways, and eventually (I'm glad!) reunited. He recently started a job at the same place my husband works, and now they're saving up to get their own house.

It turned out, on the broom thing--my husband was the culprit! He claims to be the only one in the house that has never been told that the cat eats the bristles if they're pointed down. Well, now he's been told. And he's a really BIG one on "I forgot." He's a creature of habit, in his mid-50's, and very resistant to changing how he does things.

Thank you so much for the information. That really helps in understanding the situation.

Your frustration is certainly understandable. It sounds like they all have their issues. I honestly think they probably aren't doing it as a way to try to harass you. But that doesn't make it NOT frustrating, especially from the adults in their 30's.

It is very tiresome to be constantly cleaning up after people who it seems like they should be able to do it themselves.

Maybe you need a dollar jar, and every time someone forgets and you have to deal with it, the culprit has to put a dollar in. When there is enough money, you get to go get a massage or go to the movies, or go with a friend to your favorite lunch or dinner place. Then, even if it doesn't help them to remember to do what they are supposed to, at least you get a treat out of it.

[TishaBuv]

My post was a bit intense, as my struggle is just that. Yours is only a little minor frustration with household chores. It sounds like these others all have their understandable issues and are not maliciously ‘forgetting’.

Just focus on training them with little rewards like suggested above.

I tried the little rewards in my struggle in the beginning, I’m sure.