[LMo]

((( Taluhlah ))) ((( Mandyfins ))) ((( all hurting and misunderstood friends here )))

[nothemama8]

IMHO any question needing a males point of view should be in the relationships forum, mellors worked very hard for his dream of a mens forum, do WE feel that insecure that WE need to post there?

[__zh]

as with other forums when they were new there were similar questions of who could post where and if there were restrictions.

as we see it? if a forum is not private by membership or viewing then why shouldn't ANYONE be able to post there?

we're not trying to stir, rile or provoke anything other than [insert any OTHER forum here] in place of [Women-Focused Support] or [Men-Focused Support] and see if the same questions fly.

seems a no brainer to us....then again med. addled brain might just be that "no brain" in the no brainer!

mandyfins......rock on with the athlete's foot fungus and a yeast infection.......do i have a choice? i'll take the athlete's foot any old day....

another example would be that i am considering surgery to have the saline implant removed from my left side.....i am not going to go talk to men about it. i can talk to them about the physical pain that is helping determine my decision, but i can' t talk to them about the emotional consequences of having "my" breast removed. but i could talk to you about it.

i've challenged stereotypes my entire life and gotten by with it most of the time. i've also taken one step forward and two steps back at times.

i've done many, many things that were considered to be only for men and i'll be that way til i die. and i am here to tell you that you are perceived differently when you cross that line. i could write a book on it. because we ARE different.

i still say keep it in relationships......xoxoxo pat

[Raynaadi]

Sounds like the general consenus is.....to keep the two forums separate, and discuss co-ed topics in relationships. So why don't we put a wraps on it so we stay peaceful here?

That's my motion, call for a vote?

sounds good to me........relationships

[PlanningtoLive]

relationships.......keep it separate.

wow. i guess i'm surprised is all. i understand about need for twinship... but i guess i never really thought that another person would need to have (what is considered to be) similar enough life circumstances (as opposed to ability to empathise with experience) in order to meet ones twinship need.

surprised as all...

and i wonder how much it helps...
and how much it harms...

how much the 'insider' and 'outsider' mentality helps those on the inside at the expense of those on the outside... and how much the people on the inside justify their excluding others by assuming the outsiders are out to get them anyway.

(can anyone think of examples of this in history)

i see it over and over and over
but maybe i'm primed to look...

[biiv]

alex I see what you mean all over too. and I think I am primed to look too. them and us. outsider and insider. human and non human. and i completely agree with you that this is objectively a very very catastrophic conception.
but then..
theres the difference between being objective and being emotional
and we need to find a balance somehow.
because you cant have one without the other.
so as far as i can see there are a lot of people (myself included) who have a sense of a more powerful emotional connection when they are talking to someone that they know has experienced the same experiences as them. every time i get that feeling i try to analyse it and see if i can extrapolate from that what the immediate negative effects may be and sometimes i really cant see the harm.
for example with the LGBT (etc) thing i understand that you dont have the same emotional experience when you talk to someone who has had the same exact experience but i genuinely feel safer talking to people that i know have gone through the same sexuality struggles as me and the same prejudgments, exclusions, moral difficulties, guilt etc etc than i do talking about those experiences with people who can say that they have felt the same feelings in different circumstances but since feelings are so difficult to pin down neither of us can be sure they actually are the same or if we are just using similar language to describe different sensations. when the factual experiences are the same the danger of that is halved at least.
soooooo. what was the point of this message... lol. um it was that while you cant understand that and i think actually thats a great thing to have reached a state where gender/orientation etc genuinely doesnt matter, not everyone has reached that state yet (no matter how hard some of us try!) so in the mean time there are many people who draw comfort from sharing similar factual experiences.
i hope this makes sense!
btw i would love to reply to your other messages in the psychotherapy forum but i am way too messed up right now to do that. which doesnt mean im not reading raptly!
so thank you and i hope i havent insulted because i am really just replying to your theory and not to you personally.
personally i think you rock.
tc
biiv

[biiv]

ps if i might just add. for me at least, theres a wealth of factual experience i have as a lesbian that i cant explain on an emotional level because i suck at emotions but that i would nonetheless find solace in talking to someone who shared those factual experiences.
and i gather the same goes for people who are bi-racial.

[__zh]

we agree but are confused as to why THESE forums are up for disucssion as we aren't bipolar but can post there to learn or support, we aren't ADHD but can post there to support, etc.

we tolerate posts in a forum where ppl post who think they're being supportive only to create further triggers for us. is that their problem? is it mine? is it a problem of the community?

we see no reason to bar anyone from posting in any forum as the growth of PC over the years has shown the ability of the community to adjust as necessary to changes. this is yet another change in the scheme of PC life.

onward.....

[Zen888]

How about this.....

If you are lesbian, bisexual, transgender, biracial....let ppl know in this thread (or by another means) and PM each other.

[jlove973]

hey zen. i guess the difference is that...

i've posted in the schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders forum because i thought i could say something helpful / supportive even though i've never been dx'd with schizophrenia or a psychotic disorder.

i've posted in the eating disorders forum on similar grounds.

i get the impression that the male and female forums are different, however.

different in the sense that if you have female chromosomes / sexual organs / gender identity (not sure whether one or two or three are needed) then you aren't welcome to respond to posts on the male forum. so it seems to me that these two forums are restricted in a way that the other forums are not. i mean sure people are discussing that maybe guys should be allowed on the girls board. but one thread only or whatever. seems to entail that they are not welcome to respond to the other threads.

i guess that is what i'm having difficulty with.

[Rhapsody]

I guess it is just TRUE that times a woman wants another woman's POV and some times a man just wants another males POV..... and with out the interference from the other sex.

And... IMO that is OK and there is no rejection being placed on any one here, just a fact of LIFE to how people (male & female) are some times, and that too is OK with ME.

Just like when we were kids: MOMMY will only do when you are little and sick.... and while you do indeed LoVe DADDY with all your heart - it is still MOMMY that you need (want) when you need care from being sick.
... and to those that need DADDY over MOMMY when you are sick... that is OK too.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[1Dar]

why do we realy have to have seperate forums anyway? I think it is silly. If a man or woman wishes to comment on a post in one forum or the other...then they should, but perhaps state they are the opposite gender. Well I guess that is my humble opinio and i really didn't read every tread, but enough to realize that people are segregating for no good reason.

DAR

[Rhapsody]

IMO - I do not think these two THREADS were meant to desegregate any one, but rather to create a place that women come to and talk or receive advice / help from other women..... and the same for the Men's Forum.

I honestly DO NOT see the BIG FUSS over such a kind and considerate thing done for us.... and I personally feel that these two FORUMS will solve the problem of us having to add a P.S. that states..... Please Only Woman Reply (or) Please Only Men Reply.

Basically - if I was to post in the WOMEN FORUM then it would mean that I am seeking help, care and understanding from another female, and if I was to post in any other thread then I am seeking help from ALL that wish to reply.

Does this help in the understanding to why some of us think these two threads are a good ideal and that we are not trying to push any one aside...

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[Rhapsody]

P.S.

and lets be honest...... some times a poster will state - Please Only (Males or Females) Reply and what do they get, but one or two replies from the opposite sex of whom they were seeking advice / help from.

.... that in and of its self can be quite aggravating, and now these two FORUM's will solve that PROBLEM.

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

- - - PeAcE OUT - - -

[(JD)]

I just hope you all don't get your hopes to high on this... remember it is a site with many disordered ppl. There will always be those who cannot differentiate forums and threads that they post coherently within and those they don't.

And there will be threads of inquiry, in all ways, that as usual will draw a wide variety of responses, whether exclusive of the target audience or not.

I just wish, like in a busy chat, each of us could ignore the posts that really don't apply to our own agenda on the thread (and hopefully that coincides with the subject line).

TC!

[biiv]

i just wanted to say i was just speaking about an LGBT or bi racial forum in the same terms as all the other forums and not as a forum where only bi racial or LGBT persons could post.