"You've failed yourself as a female because..."

I am an aunt and I love it! If you become an aunt, DownandLonely, I don't think that's of any less value to the world than being a mother. Thank you so much for contributing your truths to our thread!

Ps. when I was typing this I accidentally typed your name as DownandLovely!

Thanks, SilverTrees... it looks like we were typing at the same time!

I agree that my friend's comments probably had more to do with his own issues. He's actually a really good friend, and a great dad. I think that his "dad-ness" actually was really helpful when I worked for him, and made him a better manager. He was (usually) very emotionally intelligent, though could be a little blunt sometimes. Good guy though, we're still friendly.

I think that the decision to have or not have children has so many different inputs, it doesn't make sense to me to simplify it down to "selfishness". Sometimes, it's selfish to have kids - some people have kids because they want miniature versions of themselves, or little people who they believe will unconditionally love them and never leave. It's not really my business though, I've got enough to deal with worrying about what I'm doing in my little corner of the universe.

The Oscar Wilde quote is really beautiful! So many good thoughts wrapped up in that one! I like the idea that selfishness boils down to trying to impose your own decisions on other people, that makes sense to me.

This, "A red rose is not selfish because it wants to be a red rose. " - really struck me. I don't know what/who I am yet. And, I feel so old to be trying to figure out where I fit in to the world, but that's the essence of it - I don't know if I'm a rose, or a gardenia, or a wild honeysuckle bush making everyone sneeze. And, I don't know how people figure it out!

Thank you for this. I am glad you like the quote. I'm a big fan of Wilde.

You know I'm not sure which type of flower I am either! I think I know parts of who I am but I have a LOT of questions. Sometimes I feel sad or lost about that. Other times, I tell myself to enjoy the exploration through this crazy trip we call Life. I honestly don't know how to figure it out either. Best I can do is self-reflection and to keep trying new things. I believe I will be a work-in-progress until my last day on earth and I actually find that idea beautiful...that I'm never "finished" or "complete"....always more to explore. I have a feeling that deep thinkers often feel confused or unsure of themselves because they look at things on so many levels (some of the great geniuses of the world lived with frequent anguish). I personally got the anguish without the genius...what's that about?? It could be that everyone feels unsure of which flower they are from time to time but they don't necessarily say so?

It's not really my business though, I've got enough to deal with worrying about what I'm doing in my little corner of the universe.

Thank you for that! I agree! I am sorry if it sounded as though I was judging other people's choices. I really just wanted to point out the double standard in society because currently the tide flows against unmarried/childless women. But yes, my focus should be on myself and my corner of the Universe. That is my power and my scope. Thanks so much for sharing. You have much more wisdom than you give yourself credit for.

Great quotes, thank you.

SilverTrees -thanks!

I think some people never really have to question how they fit in the world. I think, for some people, it's just... intuitive and obvious? Or, it's happening subconsciously and they never need to think about it. Or, they make a decision and are able to stick with it.

I really, really want to do *something*. I have that *feeling* - but I don't know what *something* is, and honestly, I think it gets cloudy with the mental health stuff. It's only recently that I've realized how long I've been struggling with depression, and how much it affects everything in my life - and honestly - I still don't know how to deal with that. My life has become very small, but trying to do anything is completely overwhelming. I mean, I'm getting seriously overwhelmed by things like having to replace the dishwasher. I've been trying to replace a 15 year old car since late last year, and just get so twisted up in knots about everything (reliability, what do I want to drive for the next 10 years, costs, where will I get it maintained). It's kind of crazy.

It's just frustrating to feel like you could/should be doing something in the world, but to also be very aware of the clock ticking, and how - especially as a female (I think) - we seem to have less value in the world as you get older. This whole "body going crazy as you approach menopause" thing doesn't help either (seriously, why?!?!?!)

And, I can't find good answers. Even with therapy, there's just not a real clear path that I can see.

But, I DO love the idea of exploration (and I think it's an awesome attitude to have - please don't think I'm arguing or saying you're wrong!) - AND I also feel a lot of envy, I guess, towards people who have picked a path, stuck with it, and have become experts in their field. I've pretty much failed at that, even though that's something that I want very much! (And again, as the years go by, it feels like there's less opportunity to do that!)

I still love the flower metaphor though.

re: Deep thinkers, don't sell yourself short! You're asking really good questions that I think a lot of people don't consider at all, and have a really interesting and insightful perspective.

No worries, you didn't sound like at all!

And, about the double-standard, I'd be curious to hear from guys if they ever do get pressure about stuff like this. I don't know why, and I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem implausible that there are guys out there getting pressured (at least from their moms!) to hurry up, get married, and start family.

But you're right, it can be really awful for women in particular, and it seems crazy to me that so much of our value as humans seems to be tied to our willingness/ability to produce more people!

Thanks!

I could have written everything that you wrote in your first post guillouche. I was very poor when in my twenties and didn't want to share what little money that I had with a child - I just needed to live my life separate from my biological famiy situation. Even that is a handful sometimes, and I think that just by being a survivor of daily childhood violence sometimes I give a lot - but yes it is difficult to talk about.

I'm so sorry that your friend wasn't open-minded enough to listen to you on that subject!!! That's a bummer and I'd like to (gently) wring his neck!

I've recently "fought" with a younger friend who asked for an explanation of my life and she is so "entitled" that I honestly told her that I wouldn't know where to start, what exactly was her question!

Finding out how to communicate my truth in a way that feels comfortable for me is a huge work in progress. Many other people are so enmeshed in the perception of the world how they see it. I mostly don't want to change them, but rather it's a journey for me to choose to communicate or not to communicate with people who ask me questions.

Saidso

I have quite a few friends, unmarried and childless. Each of them has their own story. Knowing their stories, I really think it would be naive and frankly ignorant to attach such questions in their direction.