[roseblossom]

Have other people noticed the propaganda that the government and right wing media have been producing against the poorest and benefit claimants in the UK? Has this kind of thing been happening on such a scale in the US?

They are blaming the country's economic woes on the welfare bill, but the majority of it is for pensions but they won't tackle that because that's where they get a large percentage of their vote from - so they have been targeting people with ill health or out of work. Whilst this has been happening politicians themselves have been awarded high pay increases, and they have tax breaks and schemes for the better off including help with buying homes.

News stories have focused on people who have claimed fraudulently who no one would defend or else the 'workshy', and because they have highlighted the fact that some people on benefits are marginally better off on them (a minority) because wages have become so low, rather than legislate for private companies to introduce a living wage they have used this an argument to freeze the benefit rate.

Now if you're unemployed, sick or disabled, you face potential scrutiny and prejudice from the general public or private companies that have been exposed to biased media stories.

Over 1000 people on sickness benefits have committed suicide and there have been cases of sick people dying suddenly and prematurely due to the stress of having their benefit cut.

I personally have been on sickness benefit, and have been hoping to increase my voluntary hours to return to paid part-time work - which is what I could manage for health reasons. However, the government form for sickness entitlement invalidates so many symptoms with a biased and crude tick box scheme that if you are able to manage a few hours work, then you can be deemed fit to work full-time.

This all started with an argument that there was a benefits dependency culture and there was some evidence of that amongst some people, but things have swung so far the other way now and this argument and the country's budget deficit have been used to justify cutting support from those genuinely in need whilst those at the top end of society continue to benefit from high wages and tax cuts. Added to this the fact that there are spiralling living costs and it seems as if a new underclass is being created.

There are also more companies now using zero hours contracts where employees can find out at the last minute that they are only going to get 5 hours work, or are sent home after a half day without any pay and without the opportunity to find work elsewhere because they have been kept on tenterhooks in the hope that they would employed. They have no right to sickness or holiday pay.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by roseblossom

Over 1000 people on sickness benefits have committed suicide and there have been cases of sick people dying suddenly and prematurely due to the stress of having their benefit cut.

That's horrible. It works a bit differently in the US as it can be hard to get benefits in the first place but the class differences are everywhere I think, with each class blaming another. . .

[-jimi-]

I have a chat friend whom I see almost daily who is in UK. She is pretty terrified. Not only is she SURE she will lose disability benefits, she is terrified of being a victim of violence if someone renders her unfit to live.

What the heck is happening over there???

[Nammu]

The right wingers over here are much the same but during the last presidential election their candidates were saying things like; let the uninsured die, the poor are poor because it is their fault, gay solders deserve to die etc.. and it bit them in the nuts. The economic crash over here was caused by greedy unregulated corporations and too many middle income folks lost a lot of savings and homes for most folks to listen to that kind of hate filled rhetoric. But it scared me plenty. If one of those fanatics had won there would be the same brush fires going on over here. The problem with brush fires is that they often get out of control and take the whole forest with it. That means a lot of casualties.
So those fanatics have turned their gnashing onto the abortion, health-care & war on women intent to destroy whatever they can in the name of their hate. Frankly the entire world seems to be overrun with these right winged nuts in every country right now. In the 60's the world leaned liberal now its tilting the other direction, perhaps someday if we don't self destruct we can find the balance between the two extremes.
The voting rights is one of the issues that they are spending lots of time and money on and it is outrageous since many studies have proved there is very little to no fraud going on in voting. Not by the voters anyway, but the majority parties often twist things by changing demographies to their favor and trying to make it harder for minorities to vote. They do this in hopes of overrunning the government for their causes. I'm not sure about the duration of service times in UK but here it is 4 years & 6 years so the really bad ones usually get weeded out after a term or two. But it is getting harder and harder to keep the checks in balance as both parties now cater more and more to only the wealthy, & money buys votes though ignorance & lies.

[Joe-Anna]

I don't mean to simplify the discussion, but this is what tends to happen when we vote for a Tory prime minister.
And it makes me sick.

We spend more money on obese patients than the unemployed, yet it is socially acceptable to refer to those on welfare as 'leeches' and 'scum of the earth'. (I'm just quoting what I hear)
The public are brainwashed to hate those on benefits, and things need to be put into perspective.
Don't even mention the word immigrant. Right wing and racism seem to go hand in hand.

On top of that, Scotland has to follow these right wing laws, like the bedroom tax which is clearly discriminatory, even though we have literally one Tory mp.

Apologies for the rant, but I'm genuinely terrified. If things continue like this, I'm moving out of the UK, or voting independence, which would be a shame. I want as little to do with right wing politicians as possible. At least Scotland is still relatively more sympathetic, for now. Particularly towards those in the lower class seeking an education. I'm not trying to score points, I just want a better life.

[roseblossom]

Originally Posted by jimi...

I have a chat friend whom I see almost daily who is in UK. She is pretty terrified. Not only is she SURE she will lose disability benefits, she is terrified of being a victim of violence if someone renders her unfit to live.

What the heck is happening over there???

Basically the public aren't being told the truth because the government isn't being honest about the new assessment tests - and its only if you need to go on a sickness benefit or are disabled that you find out how skewed and sometimes impossible the system now is. The right wing press have been bombarding the public with headlines of people defrauding the benefits system at the same as politicians have decided that work, or more work, is the salvation for people claiming any kind of benefit or who don't have a job and legitimate reasons are being invalidated.

The situation is very worrying for people who have been dependent on the state either partially or totally, and who have no other source of support.

[StrongerMan]

No one condones attacks on needy people, but citizens have a right to be worried about govt. wasting their taxpayer dollars. Not every social program is helpful or warranted. Americans, in particular, have seen too much profligate spending by all their elected leaders. Bad money thrown after bad money and so on in ill fated attempts at enviro protection or social justice. And we have witnessed countries like Spain, Greece etc... that are suffering the ill effects of decades of spendthrift policies. We are all taught to save for a rainy day. Well some govt's never saved during the sunny days. Storms are brewing.

[-jimi-]

Citizens? Only tax payers are citizens?

Always nice to know.....

[winter4me]

I wonder if the UK "caught" this disease from the USA.

[StrongerMan]

Liberals are destroying prosperity wherever they rear their ugly heads. No more sad an example than obama here in the U.S. with his class/racial and socio-economic favoritism. This is the disease that needs a cure.

[-jimi-]

SM, please don't ruin this thread. This is a real worry for the sick and disabled in the UK. My friend speaks of suicide. Something awful is happening that reminds me of nazism, just with other means. This is real and this is happening how. Just because you are not affected doesn't mean it doesn't scare other people.

[winter4me]

It worked pretty well before the HMOs/private sector got involved about 20yrs ago(and, originally, if you know your history, business Requested permission to offer health care as a benefit in order to attract and keep workers)---trying to do it on the "cheap" and privately has proved a failure. If a society wants health, everyone needs to chip in and we all reap the benefits, especially with preventative care. No one will make money off the children, elderly, chronically ill----we will be judged by how we treat the least of us. Right now, it doesn't look good. May you find yourself in need.

[winter4me]

that post was for SM.
I have actually considered suicide in the future in order to spare my adult kids from being stuck caring for me, or my ending up in the current system. and I have been an RN for nearly 40yrs, and Aide before that, work with the elderly now and with kids (summer camp/school sub)---I've never seen it so cruel and nasty. Two thirds of ALL bankruptcies in the USA are related to medical bills. I am 60, have never been medically ill or hospitalized for any reason, take no meds for physical reasons, and I pay out of pocket---cannot afford insurance any longer... I work full time, always have, and am just a few steps from ruin should something go wrong---soon I will have insurance from work that will cover next to nothing.
For a no frills (no lab work, no breast exam, no internal) physical, I was recently billed $200.00. My patients pay hundreds of dollars more a month for meds than they would if they were not in care.... I have some hope that Obama has started something decent (no longer excluding pre-existing conditions, getting the healthier in at a reasonable price, and at least getting a discussion going) It is too bad the UK is going the route we have traveled.

[roseblossom]

Originally Posted by jimi...

SM, please don't ruin this thread. This is a real worry for the sick and disabled in the UK. My friend speaks of suicide. Something awful is happening that reminds me of nazism, just with other means. This is real and this is happening how. Just because you are not affected doesn't mean it doesn't scare other people.

It is awful for a lot of people, but most of the healthy or more affluent population lack awareness of what's really happening because its the minority of people who are unwell or disabled who are being affected and events protesting what's happening don't receive much media coverage - especially not to balance out at the negative stories of fraudulent claims.

Over the past eight or so months I have noticed a hardening in my own friend's and family's attitudes and I have felt more socially isolated, because I have had a mental illness and the expectation now is that I should be working in paid work even though I volunteer and have been gradually increasing my hours.

[roseblossom]

Originally Posted by winter4me

that post was for SM.
I have actually considered suicide in the future in order to spare my adult kids from being stuck caring for me, or my ending up in the current system. and I have been an RN for nearly 40yrs, and Aide before that, work with the elderly now and with kids (summer camp/school sub)---I've never seen it so cruel and nasty. Two thirds of ALL bankruptcies in the USA are related to medical bills. I am 60, have never been medically ill or hospitalized for any reason, take no meds for physical reasons, and I pay out of pocket---cannot afford insurance any longer... I work full time, always have, and am just a few steps from ruin should something go wrong---soon I will have insurance from work that will cover next to nothing.
For a no frills (no lab work, no breast exam, no internal) physical, I was recently billed $200.00. My patients pay hundreds of dollars more a month for meds than they would if they were not in care.... I have some hope that Obama has started something decent (no longer excluding pre-existing conditions, getting the healthier in at a reasonable price, and at least getting a discussion going) It is too bad the UK is going the route we have traveled.

I can totally relate to thoughts of suicide in the future. I hope that you manage to keep your health. I have no security for the future and because of changes here already I can't afford to get my teeth replaced if anything happens to them.

Here the NHS is being privatised by stealth. One example of the way things have been going is that a lot of doctors surgeries had switched to private telephone contracts (so that they can profit from your calls to them) which can be expensive if you need to phone to make appointments a lot and are kept on call-waiting. A lot of people complained and at my own doctor's surgery they finally switched back to a cheaper telephone line but only after a very long period of time.

What's galling is that the doctors already get very high, and sometimes huge salaries funded by the taxpayer as well as what they can earn privately.

The general trend seems to be for the gap between the richer/more powerful widening between the poorer/more vulnerable.

[-jimi-]

I live in northern Europe and we have had a pretty good attitude towards the disabled in the past. It was also pretty easy to be on disability if you really needed to.

It has changed. The new government renders sick people fit for work. They come on on TV and claim the real issue is not that people have long term illness, it is that they had a short term illness and then they got well but they kept wanting to cash in money... They blatantly deny long term illness! I wonder what dimension I woke up in.

They kick people off disability benefits right and left so people have to go to the welfare office but to cash welfare you have to be part of their work program which means you are sent to a company as free labor for them. If you stop working, you do not get paid. You have to show try and fail to work like that for several YEARS before they let you off the hook, or in some cases actually even grant you disability.

And the population has changed their mind about the disabled because the government fed them things like half of the "disabled" are fakers and so on. So if you say you are on disability these days, people will think you are either lazy or a faker.

I can not believe how fast things changed......

Still, the UK is much much worse. The other day, my friend's friend there got beaten up by a gang for "acting" retarded (he has autism).

Good heavens.

My disabled mother was verbally abused just the other day for asking a non-blue badge holder to leave the disabled parking space outside the front of her house. He started ranting about how she was a "lazy disabled b****" and should "get a job" and that he would come back and torch the car and the house etc. just because she asked him to move his car 2 metres up the road!

My mother was left shaken and fears retribution now because she called the police and reported him (had his car number plate) because he used her disability as an excuse it is considered a hate crime, which is exactly what it is. The thing is that you don't even need to be on disability benefits to qualify for a blue badge, so for all he knew my mother could've been working full-time despite her disability!

The Govt and the media demonise those on benefits and yet the truth is most of our welfare bill goes to people who worked all their lives for their pension, and those in work on low wages e.g. Working Families Tax Credit etc. Yet they paint everyone on benefits as lazy scroungers.

I too am on disability benefits for mental illness, but am ashamed and scared to tell anyone for fear of their reactions. I've internalised society's message about benefit claimants being scum and feel terrible about myself for having to claim benefits, yet I'm slightly more scared of being homeless to not claim. And the system is being changed to make it even harder to qualify for these benefits. I'm currently in the middle of a review of my disability benefits and am so anxious I'm considering suicide every day because society considers me a burden. I'm filling out the ESA booklet as they require, but they've made the spaces 1/3 smaller than they were. They're not interested in hearing about your problems, they just need to make it seem like a system is in place. Then you are hauled in front of an assessor who has no mental health training whatsoever and yet apparently can decide whether I can work or not better than my psychiatrist who has known me for 5 years!

I am petrified about my current review, and hate that I am dependent on a system that has me demonised as a useless member of society and a burden; one that many here would rather do without

*Willow*

[-jimi-]

Freaking unbelievable. I'm so mad about all this crap. Everyone is getting more and more brain washed to not keep an eye on things but just focus on a scapegoat, us. Yea sure, we're the reason for things going bad. Yup yup.

Sigh.

[Koko2]

Originally Posted by roseblossom

Have other people noticed the propaganda that the government and right wing media have been producing against the poorest and benefit claimants in the UK? Has this kind of thing been happening on such a scale in the US?
.
.
.

We in the US went through this for 8 years during the last Bush presidency, 2000-2008. This sentiment is still widespread in right-wing media such as Fox news, but not adhered to by the current president. The next Republican president who takes office will no doubt take action to reduce benefits.

[nonightowl]

Originally Posted by Koko2

We in the US went through this for 8 years during the last Bush presidency, 2000-2008. This sentiment is still widespread in right-wing media such as Fox news, but not adhered to by the current president. The next Republican president who takes office will no doubt take action to reduce benefits.

It seems the budgets to help the most vulnerable are always cut: Elderly, disabled, and poor. Don't these "people" who make these decisions realize THEY are going to be old someday? And they could become disabled one day, or....poor?

There's also such a thing as the "working poor". These people work their tails off, but they can't get ahead due to such low wages. Not everybody can be a PhD who speaks 2 languages and has a perfect/stable work history that employers demand these days. (They also expect people to have a car, not take the bus)

I didn't realize other countries demonize the poor/unemployed the way the U.S. does. With many states having a "at will" policy, your job isn't safe. They can let you go at any time, good riddance to you. Yeah, you could be living check to check, but that's not their problem.

I HATE these people who say stuff like "Get a job" or "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps". People who say stuff like that should be thrown out onto the street with just their clothes on their backs. THEN, let's see them "get a job." Yeah, I mean that from the bottom of my heart. They need to get off their high horse. Only losing everything would humble them. Or maybe not...

So.....you think you can just "get a job." What does "a" mean? Any job? A low paying one, then? First of all, you need to have a "ermanent address"to apply for a job. A cardboard box/tent/car doesn't count....And you better not stink either. If you're homeless, there's not many places you can take a shower. Got to look nice and polished, have that perfect work history, a car (for transportation, not living in it).

Employers discriminate against the unemployed. You need a job to get a job, you need an income to get a loan. Employers treat people as so disposable, not giving them a second thought when they lay off a bunch of people. They are left scrambling to find work, and the longer they are out of work, the less likely they will get hired.

In the meantime, landlords raise rent. Health insurance companies raise their premiums, food companies raise prices, etc. Nothing goes down, just up. But most people's salaries don't. Then, we have these rich CEO's who make millions in a year, something most people won't see in their lifetime.

I'm not going to say more cause it'll get my blood pressure up. But I've got strong feelings about this, and I had to get this out of my system. All I can do is use these emoticons to express my sentiments:

[Koko2]

Originally Posted by nonightowl

I didn't realize other countries demonize the poor/unemployed the way the U.S. does.

I wasn't aware of this issue being prevalent in the UK either. I guess the UK isn't known as the 51st state for nothing.

[nonightowl]

People who say "Get off your fanny" should "get off their high horse." Or, be KNOCKED off it. I'd gladly do it. Presumptuous *** hole people.

[RoseInterrupted]

Originally Posted by Koko2

I wasn't aware of this issue being prevalent in the UK either. I guess the UK isn't known as the 51st state for nothing.

If the UK is known as the 51st State, then Australia must be the 52nd!

Exactly the same thing is happening right here (Australia) since the Liberal party took over a few months ago. They cry that the previous Labor Government caused a massive deficit and it can only be clawed back by hitting the low paid and welfare people where it hurts. They also say that those on disability pensions should be reviewed to see if they can work even part time, but mental illness is very unpredictable and relapse can happen at any time. The problem is that if they take a part time job and relapse, then instead of going back on disability that pays around $840 a fortnight, they have to go onto "sickness benefits" that only pay around half that. With rental for a house at around $220 a week (for a crappy dump) then $220 a week doesn't go far.

Meanwhile, people are being pushed further and further down the heap until they hit rock bottom and it looks like it's a common theme across the Western World I might also add that our country is loosing manufacturing industries in record numbers. Even mining is slowing down. The way things are going, the funeral industry will be the only one doing any good!!

Our country lacks compassion and is quickly going down the industrial toilet!!
Angry Rose!