pay raise -- not sure how to handle this

Hi there,

There must be people here with more experience than me in getting pay raises! I have a hard time talking about this with my family and friends, and I would like some more objective opinions if that is ok!

I was on a probationary period at my job that paid me very low (I think), at 11/hr for work that requires a bachelors degree (in science) and very limited supervision in a specialized setting. I was told I'd get a pay raise after 6 months. I haven't signed any official employment contract agreements. It's a very small company that is somewhat disorganized in general from what I've experienced so far.

After an internal review that was very positive, I was sent an email by the boss declaring a new pay of 14/hr. There was no indication that it was meant as an offer, or any discussion of a contract or other details.

I was shocked by this. I'm not sure what to expect because this is my first job with a small company, but is this an acceptable way to negotiate pay with long-term employment? How are probationary periods usually handled? I feel like 14/hr is too low, but it's hard to know what I'm worth because discussing pay is so taboo, and this email has left me feeling stonewalled. Where do I go from here? Also, I'm afraid they might be having money problems. Does anyone have advice?

Thank you!

Get experience and move on You could speak to them but it sounds like you have a good sense the place is not in a place pay fairly. If 20 dollars is market there is no way they will go from 11 to 20. I was in a somewhat similar situation. They gave me a 25 cent raise. I've never been so insulted. I told them a bartender would consider that a bad tip and walked out. I don't recommend that but definitely you can take advantage of putting experience on your resume and getting paid fairly at the next gig. Good thing is it is in your field. That's something.

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Hourly wages are different from contract/salary wages. The $11 to $14 sounds pretty good to me for a first job (I have bachelor degrees and advanced education) and a small company. With hourly wages, there is no negotiation, if there were going to be negotiation they would have done that when they were in the hiring process, asked you how much you wanted to make per year and then negotiated with you for how much they could offer and your salary would have been stated as $22,880 ($11 an hour x 40 hours x 52 weeks) and you would get a percentage increase/cost-of-living sort of raise or "step" increase, etc. You realize $14/hr. is $29,120, a pretty good increase for 6 months? Unless you are technically trained (a computer programmer, beginning engineer, architect, etc. can start at $55,000-$65,000+ for example), $30,000 for a business or liberal arts degree is pretty good I think.

I would do as Michanne suggests, get some good experience and move on in 2-3 years.

It's interesting that they emailed the new salary rather than discussing it in person with you -- I haven't run into that. Unless you are in an industry where contracts are the norm, I would not be surprised at the lack of a contract.

Unfortunately, at most companies, especially small ones, what you start out at usually has a huge bearing on your future earnings. This can be very limiting. Accepting a job, even an entry level job, at less than the market rate can mark you for your life at that company.

How much did you expect to be paid? Are there any benefits in addition to the wage? Could you get another job somewhere else and be paid more?

It's really hard to say whether or not the $14 is fair without knowing the industry or location. Where I live, that would be a fairly standard starting salary for a new grad, but we have crappy wages.

Haha, you have a lot of guts!

Thanks for all the great info! I'm new to this, so knowing when a contract is appropriate is something I've been researching.

The 11/hr was, to me, a dramatically low rate because it was a probationary period. They had a bad experience with the last person and almost lost their main client over it, and so they were being cautious with a 6 month "trial" period. This is what I was told. I assumed that I'd get an offer after I did well within those 6 months. Perhaps it was my mistake to assume that... gotta learn the hard way, I guess.

I am going to keep my ear to the ground just in case, as you and Michanne say. Funny, one of our clients told me he was leaving his job and asked if I wanted to apply to replace him, right in front of my supervisor! Unfortunately I don't want his job.

Thank you for your story and encouragement LaborIntensive.

I hadn't really thought of that. I hope that is not true in this case.

I work in a certified laboratory. I run the laboratory alone (it is not the main office). I'm expected to market and expand our services as well as maintain good relations with current clients, process all the work that comes through, manage paperwork and equipment. I've been updating and rewriting protocols, improving our procedures, making new contacts, developing special projects, and working 12 hour days sometimes. It's very involved, and I've been flying by the seat of my pants with a lot of it because I'm getting so little direction. That is what comes from being a really small outfit, I think. In a way it is neat the amount of freedom, but it's also stressful and hard because I haven't been in this particular business before. I was hoping for somewhere between 15/hr and 18/hr with all I've been doing... or at least an honest and open talk about what they can provide.

I don't get any benefits that I know of. This is part of the confusion with the email. I was expecting we'd talk about that type of thing after the 6 months was up. I get overtime at least. Maybe I should ask about sick leave/vacation. That might be a good start.

Thanks for your feedback everyone! I'm starting to get an idea of how I might approach this - asking if I'm getting sick/vacation leave to open a possible discussion and keeping a lookout for other jobs; staying in perspective.

I'm still upset that this was emailed to me suddenly, like I'd already been here for years and was just getting a routine pay increase... but 14/hr can be tolerable if I can get some vacation and another increase eventually, and if not what I'm doing now gives me experience that can advance my career. That was really why I took this position in the first place, even if I had no idea what I was really getting into.

A small company will pay you what the position is worth to them. It's difficult to look at what others make for the same work when you choose to work for a small company. Then you decide if it's worth it to you. The more value you have...the more they will pay you if they have it..if there is anything you can do to help produce more money for the company..that's the ticket. If they do not reward you for it...find your way out. I've had jobs with large companies that paid well, benefits and such but hated it most of the time...I cannot conform very well..when I think things are unjust.

Yes... that is very important to keep in mind.

It's an odd conundrum because if it's a money issue, they are basically asking you to make a labor of love, and if you're going to ask that, to me, there should be more openness/willingness to negotiate than what I am getting. For instance, they fired three people and didn't tell me. I found out from a coworker, who knew because they said goodbye. This coworker is also seeking a raise and feels underpaid, but was put on guard after all the people they let go suddenly. One of these people had been at the company for over a decade.

So it's very touch and go here. That's why I'm so interested in outside opinions! Thank you for sharing your thoughts, brainhi. I agree with you about working for a big company. You get treated like a non-person so easily.

I am grateful for this job, by the way, I just don't want to be taken advantage of, and I'm still trying to figure out where those lines are.

It's good that you are grateful for the job. Management/owners do not always behave well. You cannot change them...but you can figure out how to manage them in your head - learn what or what not to expect. There is really no "book of shoulds" when it comes to how someone runs their company. When you start to think this or that "should" be handled in a certain way.. you are setting yourself up for resentment. They have the money and they can behave anyway they want to (good people will be good to you - but they need to get to know you and respect your work - that raise did show respect...even if the notification came by email). You get to decide eventually if that is an environment you want to be in. Wish you the best and I hope they treat you well!!!

Hmmm, this struck me: this company almost lost a major client because they let an unsupervised (probationary?) employee handle a major account? And what they learned from that lesson was that they should hire someone on a trial basis and pay them even less money to do that work??

It sounds like you are very good at what you do, but it is a very strange thing (imo) for a company to place this much power in the hands of a probationary employee who has never been in the business before. To me this signals that they either have a problem paying people or they have trouble making good decisions. It sounds like you are making a lot of outside contacts in your position, which will be great for finding a new job.

This sounds like the kind of company that would give you a raise to 32k a year, 3 days vacation, and switch you to a salaried position (no overtime).

Trust your gut with these people. From what you've said, you have every reason to be wary. You have a right to ask for clear information about your situation and to ask for it in writing.

Yes, ask about vacation and sick leave policies, you should probably get 2 weeks vacation but that could not be until after a year and there might be 401K and other plans then too. You do get unemployment, which is very expensive; if you are self-employed you have to pay it all but your company pays half or more when you work and probably some sort of disability. The taxes, tips, and gratuities to be allowed to hire you costs them money. The basic formula is that an employee costs the company about twice what his salary is to employ; with sick, vacation, and holidays, help with insurances (some or all health in the old days), etc.

Salaried people do not get overtime, just their salary. That is one reason they probably have the job as hourly; they know it requires a lot of time and/or don't want to have to hire another person to help you (as, even at $8/hr. or something for an assistant, they'd be paying $16 actually for tax, tips, and gratuities of hiring the person). After a year or so you might want to talk them into hiring someone part-time to help you; use your wages/hrs. to show how it would not cost them more or much more and you would get a built in person to "supervise" which would look wonderful on your resume (if you could manage without overtime for six months to a year and/or get another couple dollars an hour or more schooling paid for (even just a supervisory course or something).

It's hard when you are a whole department yourself. I had to run a non-profit and my first chore, which were overdue, was the payroll taxes which I'd never done before! Fortunately I had had a couple semesters of accounting and I had the contact number of the person who'd had the job before me, the first person to have the job at all, but she was out-of-state. I called and talked to her and she was vague and clueless (probably why she'd quit the job) so then I realized I was truly on my own and could do whatever I wanted That was $8 an hour but in the mid-90's.

To start $11/hr out of College, of all things, isn't far fetched. Pretty significant pay raise, however.

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You've gotten some good answers but let me add my 2 cents worth. I have worked for small mom and pop shops and big corporations. Mom and Pop will definitely take it personally if you complain about your pay. The way they see it you got an almost 30 percent increase. Bigger places will usually have everything written up and have go-by's that will dictate pay based on duties with wiggle room for merit increases--and they'll still low-ball you at entry level positions.

I'm not sure where you live, but where I live in the US, the cost of living is medium; not ridiculously high and not very low. So 11 dollars an hour for a BS would be too low for my area, in my opinion, and so would 14, but 14 probably wouldn't raise too many eyebrows if there was growth potential. Your benefits should have been explained to you at the beginning. Do you get health insurance? How many days of vacation per year and is it allowed to accrue? How many days of sick leave? Does it accrue?

The benefit of where you are now is that you are basically calling the shots work-wise. I say put in enough time to equal 2 years there (your 6 mos probationary period plus 1.5 extra years) and then start applying for a better position at a stable company/organization.

Since there might be some question of whether this place you are working at is stable--since they are letting go long term employees--keep your resume/cv updated, maintain those contacts you are making, and start investigating salaries and responsibilities at the places that interest you--either by going to their websites and seeing what positions they advertise, asking friends or others who work there--ask about the culture at work, if they like it, etc., not just about money, and checking pay rates by career in your area in general (public library should be able to help with that).

Keep detailed, personal records of the responsibilities you have--keep these records at home. If you headed up a project that involved 4 other people under you and a multi-million dollar contract, note that down. If you ran 6000 tests by yourself, note that down. Obviously you are not keeping any secrets or company documents at home. Just your own notes on your own activities with an eye to resume building.

The dollar amount sent to you in email created a paper trail, and the person who sent it to you didn't actually have to talk to you. You decide whether you should reply with an email asking politely about health insurance and vacation: "It was probably just an oversight…" or "I must have forgotten, but could you refresh my memory about …. vacation/health insurance/sick leave."

One other thing. Especially with Mom and Pop small places, if you want something, you might couch it like this: "Normally, I take a week's vacation around the 4th of July/my birthday in September"/whatever--just anchor the vacation to a specific time. Then say, "Will that be a problem this year?" It helps if you can also add "I've trained Sue to run the tests/write the reports"….. or whatever you think they will get most hysterical about and use as a reason to not let you go.

I worked at one place that was just egregious. So be prepared to counter with, "So, it isn't possible this year…I'd like to pencil those dates in for next year…can I count on that??" AND have another time frame already chosen…"Ok, so how about a week in May; my brother and I often go fishing then…?"

Long story short; I would not stay at this place any longer than I had to, to do two things: Get initial experience and get an unremarkable, adequate amount of time to be able to honestly say to a new company: "I enjoyed working for MomAndPop, but now I would like to work with … a larger organization/specific duties…" whatever applies to the position you are interviewing for.

Wow, thank you everyone for such helpful replies! I really appreciate all of you taking the time to see what you think of this situation.

I think their reasoning was that they didn't want to go through as much damage control. They changed quite a few things from when the last person was hired to try to prevent the position from having that much power. For instance, they come out and see how I'm doing every once in a while, double-check my work to make sure there are no mistakes, etc. I do think they have trouble making good decisions sometimes, but like brainhi says, it's small company and you can't expect them to run the business perfectly. But it is a reason to be careful, I'm learning!

They are planning to hire a part-time unpaid intern for me soon, as the workload is about to pick up. I'm not sure what the expectations will be for supervising/training them. I was going to ask for more clarification on that when the time comes.

Your experience sounds very similar! Billing was a stinker to figure out. I've thought of contacting the first person to have this job, whom they really liked, but I haven't worked up the nerve! It is nice to realize that, with the structure being so poor, you do get to call the shots more than most people probably do. Thanks Perna!

This was really useful advice, thank you for adding your 2 cents. I will start keeping better records of what I am doing and planning for the future that may not be at this company. I had hoped at the beginning that I'd grow with the company and stay a long time, but I'm not sure that will be possible.

I'd talked to my mother about this finally, because she understands professionalism very well, and she made similar recommendations as this. What you're saying strengthens my resolve to write a reply letter, very respectfully and showing my gratitude for the company thus far, to get the vacation/sick leave and other questions cleared up.

I had to ride out this economy as a new grad. My employers took advantage and I was never paid fairly. I took any opportunity I could (part time jobs elsewhere and freelancing) to build my skills. Finally, about 5 years later I got a new job. I went from a part time $10/hr job to a fulltime 40k job. and got a raise 6 months later. and I'm still working hard to prove my worth for a promotion. I do more than my fair share of work, so I can either get promoted or get hired elsewhere. Dont work for your employer. work for yourself.

I really needed to hear that. It's easy to forget. Maybe write it on my bathroom mirror? Thank you.

I'm glad you're where you want to be, finally. It's always good to hear when someone who takes the chance to make that investment in themselves can get what they need and want out of it!