I'm a musician and a situation has come up where I don't know what would be ethical or not. I had a gig in a couple weeks that I had already promised my time for, got the music, went to a rehearsal etc. That gig doesn't pay. Today I was asked to play a gig the same night (even though they're not at the same time, they're in two different states and there's not enough time to change outfits and go between the two) that pays.

So is it unethical to drop the unpaid gig for a paid one even though I technically committed to the unpaid one? I've heard horror stories of people declining a gig that would have made their careers because they already had one in the books. I really doubt this would be a career defining gig, but I'd also really like to get paid and I'm sick of playing for free. (I'm also sick of having to go to another state for paid work, but that's another story).

To further complicate matters, me making that extra $80-100 plus gas ($50 stipend) isn't a life or death situation and that's probably not that much money to a lot of people. Basically, I need to make money in a "I need to be independent" sort of way, not a "I need to eat/pay rent sort of way" if that makes sense. But that's vitally important to my well-being because my dependent tendencies taught to me and enforced by my parents are ruining other relationships and causing me to be isolated. I know if I ask my parents what I should do, their response would be to not work so hard and if I need $100, they'll give it to me.

Also, going on the paid gig will also include 6+ hours on the road and an overnight stay (that won't cost me anything but still) meaning a loss a lot of valuable time to work on homework during a short weekend between school weeks. If it was during the summer, it wouldn't be a problem, but my schedule is so packed (and there's not much I can do about it without affecting the quality of my education) that everyone has advised me from even getting a part-time job during the semester.

I just don't know what would be the ethical or smart thing to do! Or should I always go where the money is and ignore what other issues that might come up as a result?

If you need the money, then go for the paid gig. Survival is more important than taking the moral high ground.

If you're in a comfortable place financially, then go for the free gig.

That's the tricky thing though…I don't know if I'm actually in what could be considered a comfortable place financially. I have money for things but it's not my money. And I'm not comfortable with that.

And I guess part of my question is should we always be going for the money no matter what?

[eeyorestail]

I think the problem with taking the paid gig is that you made a commitment to the other first. I would be worried that word might get out that you don't honor your commitments, and that would make getting future (paid) gigs more difficult.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think that the default thing to do should be follow the money until one is comfortable financially. Afterwards, I think gaining experience and knowledge should take priority over money.

[ManOfConstantSorrow]

Surely the honest thing to do is to negotiate with you fellow musos.

Can you find a substitute for the free gig?

[qwertykeyboard]

**** the money, which gig would you have more fun playing at?

Originally Posted by krminnj

I think the problem with taking the paid gig is that you made a commitment to the other first. I would be worried that word might get out that you don't honor your commitments, and that would make getting future (paid) gigs more difficult.

I'm worried about that too, but I'm never had paid gigs in this state and based on the politics, I probably never will anyway just because they don't let new people in unless someone dies or something.

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

I think that the default thing to do should be follow the money until one is comfortable financially. Afterwards, I think gaining experience and knowledge should take priority over money.

That's true although one gig isn't going to make a difference. What I really need to do is to find a way to get paid to play around where I live instead of driving 3 hours one way just to get paid to play, but like I said before, the politics are such that you have no chance unless you've been in the area for a long time. I've only been here for four years.

Originally Posted by ManOfConstantSorrow

Surely the honest thing to do is to negotiate with you fellow musos.

Can you find a substitute for the free gig?

I don't know. I don't really communicate with other people who play my instrument in the area. I'd feel bad sending someone to a gig with a two hour round trip with no pay anyway. I don't really know the people from the other city who would be closer.

Originally Posted by qwertykeyboard

**** the money, which gig would you have more fun playing at?

I think it would pretty much be a toss up; they'd both be fun. For the paid one, I'd be the center of attention and for the unpaid one, I'd just be in the background.

I would rather just stick with the commitment I've already made, but whenever I think about turning the paid gig down, I just think "But…MONEY" and feel kinda dumb turning it down. I just don't want to make the wrong decision or for other people in my life to think I made the wrong decision.

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

I'm worried about that too, but I'm never had paid gigs in this state and based on the politics, I probably never will anyway just because they don't let new people in unless someone dies or something.


That's true although one gig isn't going to make a difference. What I really need to do is to find a way to get paid to play around where I live instead of driving 3 hours one way just to get paid to play, but like I said before, the politics are such that you have no chance unless you've been in the area for a long time. I've only been here for four years.


I don't know. I don't really communicate with other people who play my instrument in the area. I'd feel bad sending someone to a gig with a two hour round trip with no pay anyway. I don't really know the people from the other city who would be closer.


I think it would pretty much be a toss up; they'd both be fun. For the paid one, I'd be the center of attention and for the unpaid one, I'd just be in the background.

I would rather just stick with the commitment I've already made, but whenever I think about turning the paid gig down, I just think "But…MONEY" and feel kinda dumb turning it down. I just don't want to make the wrong decision or for other people in my life to think I made the wrong decision.

Another thing you could consider doing to boost your income is make a YouTube channel to promote your music. It might take a bit of work early on but if you can get a certain number of subscribers and get a decent sponsorship, you could easily make several thousand dollars a month.

I have a background in internet marketing and SEO so if you want to do this later and need some advice, I would be happy to lend a hand

[ManOfConstantSorrow]

I don't know. I don't really communicate with other people who play my instrument in the area. I'd feel bad sending someone to a gig with a two hour round trip with no pay anyway. I don't really know the people from the other city who would be closer. - I was thinking that maybe your band might know someone?

[growlycat]

If switching gigs would hurt your reputation, stick to what you committed to first. It's really hard to fix a bad reputation and bad word of mouth.

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

Another thing you could consider doing to boost your income is make a YouTube channel to promote your music. It might take a bit of work early on but if you can get a certain number of subscribers and get a decent sponsorship, you could easily make several thousand dollars a month.

I have a background in internet marketing and SEO so if you want to do this later and need some advice, I would be happy to lend a hand

What would I put on there anyway? I would need a band first to do it right, but I don't know who those people would be. I've already promoted my music via Facebook and SoundCloud. I'm not sure how adding a video is going to help at this point. The best I could do by myself is sort of play guitar along with the singing, but that wouldn't showcase myself with my actual instrument nor would it be better than the full demos I have. Am I supposed to be giving lessons/master classes via YouTube? I never quite understood how that was supposed to be used. I tried it once and YouTube deleted everything and shut down my account.

Anyway, I turned down the paid gig because I didn't feel right turning down the gig I already committed to. I'm going to lose out on money because I try to be a "good" person…sigh.

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

What would I put on there anyway? I would need a band first to do it right, but I don't know who those people would be. I've already promoted my music via Facebook and SoundCloud. I'm not sure how adding a video is going to help at this point. The best I could do by myself is sort of play guitar along with the singing, but that wouldn't showcase myself with my actual instrument nor would it be better than the full demos I have. Am I supposed to be giving lessons/master classes via YouTube? I never quite understood how that was supposed to be used. I tried it once and YouTube deleted everything and shut down my account.

Anyway, I turned down the paid gig because I didn't feel right turning down the gig I already committed to. I'm going to lose out on money because I try to be a "good" person…sigh.

You could simply put an audio track with your bands logo or an album photo on YouTube like many music artists do and maybe consider making music videos in the future when you get a full band together.

BTW what music do you make? I would be eager to hear it if you wouldn't mind PMing me a link to your soundcloud

[CosmicRose]

Do people seriously book musicians without paying them? That's...volunteering.

[Perna]

I would go with where I am committed and imply to the paid people that you are too popular to be able to get you to book, especially for such a distance, without longer notice. I don't think the bit of money you might make is worth the time and distance and disrupting of your already made plans: it could make you look desperate to yourself? You do not want to be going to/picking just any gigs because they pay but ones that fit you and your lifestyle. Technically you could probably get a gig across the country but do you want to? Right now you want a certain radius, saturate them and then the radius gets bigger as you do, holistically?

Originally Posted by CosmicRose

Do people seriously book musicians without paying them? That's...volunteering.

In this case, this is a pro level concert band that essentially acts like a community band. The only way we would get paid is if they had a corporate sponsor. Where else would the money come from?

And most musicians do a lot of volunteer gigs for networking purposes and because there aren't so many paid ones (at least ones that pay ENOUGH or FAIRLY).

Originally Posted by Perna

I would go with where I am committed and imply to the paid people that you are too popular to be able to get you to book, especially for such a distance, without longer notice. I don't think the bit of money you might make is worth the time and distance and disrupting of your already made plans: it could make you look desperate to yourself? You do not want to be going to/picking just any gigs because they pay but ones that fit you and your lifestyle. Technically you could probably get a gig across the country but do you want to? Right now you want a certain radius, saturate them and then the radius gets bigger as you do, holistically?

Talking to another musician, their opinion was to always take the paying gig. Find a sub if you have to, but always take money. I think I agree, but it's too late this time.

That band usually can't give longer notice because they may have only heard about the gig themselves.

If the gig was full time and I could actually pay my bills on my own, I would very seriously consider moving to the other side of world. The only problem is I'm in the middle of a doctorate and I wouldn't be too thrilled having to go into a long distance relationship, but I would consider it.

Right now I want to stay in the area, but the politics are crazy around here. I did recently get a name of someone to contact to say "hey, I'm in the area and I play various styles including mariachi, classical, and some jazz" and hopefully get on the list to get calls. Not to mention I've played with at least one of the groups on the list, but unofficially (as in, I'm not getting paid).

I'd like to start my own band eventually, but since I have a hard time socially, I'm going to have a hard time with finding personnel, and also finding places to play.

I have no idea how any of this works or how I'm supposed anywhere in this field. If I ask other people in the field, they don't know either. It supposedly just magically happens I guess?

And as a side note, this wouldn't be as big of an issue if I hadn't been screwed over for a graduate teaching assistantship which they give to nearly all doctoral students. I only know of two others who don't have one and it's a LARGE program. Like probably 30 people give or take. But again, it's all politics. I wasn't the best friend of the department head's son. I'm not the prodigal son/daughter returning. Even though I AM returning. Etc. etc. I just don't know how to navigate the politics! It's sickening. It's the same in gigs and everywhere else.

I mean, I have won 3 national contests in music composition while I've been there and yet I'm not allowed to teach, say, orchestration even when the professor teaching it is like, "eh, not really my thing". I don't deserve to be equal to my peers. Without any teaching experience, there goes any hope at a steady job in my field. I'll have to work on commission, play gigs, AND have a day job instead.

Sorry about the tangent that turned into a rant, but I am SO angry right now. It's almost like mocking myself to take a gig that doesn't pay. It's like saying, "hey, I really AM that worthless!"

[OliverRaw]

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

I'm a musician and a situation has come up where I don't know what would be ethical or not. I had a gig in a couple weeks that I had already promised my time for, got the music, went to a rehearsal etc. That gig doesn't pay. Today I was asked to play a gig the same night (even though they're not at the same time, they're in two different states and there's not enough time to change outfits and go between the two) that pays.

So is it unethical to drop the unpaid gig for a paid one even though I technically committed to the unpaid one? I've heard horror stories of people declining a gig that would have made their careers because they already had one in the books. I really doubt this would be a career defining gig, but I'd also really like to get paid and I'm sick of playing for free. (I'm also sick of having to go to another state for paid work, but that's another story).

To further complicate matters, me making that extra $80-100 plus gas ($50 stipend) isn't a life or death situation and that's probably not that much money to a lot of people. Basically, I need to make money in a "I need to be independent" sort of way, not a "I need to eat/pay rent sort of way" if that makes sense. But that's vitally important to my well-being because my dependent tendencies taught to me and enforced by my parents are ruining other relationships and causing me to be isolated. I know if I ask my parents what I should do, their response would be to not work so hard and if I need $100, they'll give it to me.

Also, going on the paid gig will also include 6+ hours on the road and an overnight stay (that won't cost me anything but still) meaning a loss a lot of valuable time to work on homework during a short weekend between school weeks. If it was during the summer, it wouldn't be a problem, but my schedule is so packed (and there's not much I can do about it without affecting the quality of my education) that everyone has advised me from even getting a part-time job during the semester.

I just don't know what would be the ethical or smart thing to do! Or should I always go where the money is and ignore what other issues that might come up as a result?

Former fellow musician here)
I walked this path in the past. I started as just a random guy with bass and ended up as leader of quite popular band in the area. Truth to be told, My last band (It was my 6th band actually), started getting some serious money after almost two years of playing for food or even for nothing, nobody even gave us money for gas or even assembled our stuff. But after all of that we became recognized band and got enough money from gigs.
The thing is, that if your music is good, You'll be heard and be paid, perhaps later, but You'll be, not even mentioning satisfaction from work. And for that You need great band.
There are always opportunities to earn money by music, but if it comes to dilemma of "to earn a couple of bucks or to play great music with great guys", it is always the second one!
Good luck, dude, I'm sure You'll be fine

[KQiao]

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

I'm worried about that too, but I'm never had paid gigs in this state and based on the politics, I probably never will anyway just because they don't let new people in unless someone dies or something.


That's true although one gig isn't going to make a difference. What I really need to do is to find a way to get paid to play around where I live instead of driving 3 hours one way just to get paid to play, but like I said before, the politics are such that you have no chance unless you've been in the area for a long time. I've only been here for four years.


I don't know. I don't really communicate with other people who play my instrument in the area. I'd feel bad sending someone to a gig with a two hour round trip with no pay anyway. I don't really know the people from the other city who would be closer.


I think it would pretty much be a toss up; they'd both be fun. For the paid one, I'd be the center of attention and for the unpaid one, I'd just be in the background.

I would rather just stick with the commitment I've already made, but whenever I think about turning the paid gig down, I just think "But…MONEY" and feel kinda dumb turning it down. I just don't want to make the wrong decision or for other people in my life to think I made the wrong decision.

I'd say it sounds like you know exactly what you want to do. Why don't you go with your instincts on this one and play the non-paying one that you aren't going to have to drive forever to get to? Next time you can make sure that the gig you get pays beforehand, or you can start trying to connect with other musicians in the area or shopping around on youtube for support for your band after this one show. If nothing else, if you can make some connections, the next time you're committed to a gig you can pass on the name of some friends that you make, and request that they return the favor of mentioning you if a gig comes up that they can't take. Networking can be important, but so can reputation in the place that you live. You sound like you would be less comfortable passing on the gig you're committing to than borrowing money from your parents. Yes, borrowing from them is inconvenient for you, but you can keep track of what you borrow and repay them when you're in a better place financially. It's harder to recover your reputation on a local level than it is to pay back money, especially since not honoring your commitments can impact future opportunities. Just my two-cents.

Good luck with your decision.

[done with it]

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

I'm a musician and a situation has come up where I don't know what would be ethical or not. I had a gig in a couple weeks that I had already promised my time for, got the music, went to a rehearsal etc. That gig doesn't pay. Today I was asked to play a gig the same night (even though they're not at the same time, they're in two different states and there's not enough time to change outfits and go between the two) that pays.

So is it unethical to drop the unpaid gig for a paid one even though I technically committed to the unpaid one? I've heard horror stories of people declining a gig that would have made their careers because they already had one in the books. I really doubt this would be a career defining gig, but I'd also really like to get paid and I'm sick of playing for free. (I'm also sick of having to go to another state for paid work, but that's another story).

To further complicate matters, me making that extra $80-100 plus gas ($50 stipend) isn't a life or death situation and that's probably not that much money to a lot of people. Basically, I need to make money in a "I need to be independent" sort of way, not a "I need to eat/pay rent sort of way" if that makes sense. But that's vitally important to my well-being because my dependent tendencies taught to me and enforced by my parents are ruining other relationships and causing me to be isolated. I know if I ask my parents what I should do, their response would be to not work so hard and if I need $100, they'll give it to me.

Also, going on the paid gig will also include 6+ hours on the road and an overnight stay (that won't cost me anything but still) meaning a loss a lot of valuable time to work on homework during a short weekend between school weeks. If it was during the summer, it wouldn't be a problem, but my schedule is so packed (and there's not much I can do about it without affecting the quality of my education) that everyone has advised me from even getting a part-time job during the semester.

I just don't know what would be the ethical or smart thing to do! Or should I always go where the money is and ignore what other issues that might come up as a result?

I guess it also has to do with whether you love the gig and the people you are working with.
And an old friend told me once"no matter what industry first 5 years of your career take every job no matter paid or not".
It worked for me several times...only that I am changing my career now sooo...

[lizardlady]

I believe you answered your own question in your subject line when you asked about "making money" versus "doing the right thing."