First off, don't confuse this post for me being malicious or for validating some of my more negative thoughts or opinions because that isn't my intention.

With that being said, I've made a few posts in the past regarding my view on employers being unworthy of my honesty because of how they don't care about anything that doesn't benefit them and I've also been vocal about this opinion with people in my personal life, but I'm generally met with criticism when I voice my worldviews.

I'm curious as to why people care so much about honesty and integrity in one's professional life when it's a proven fact that no business or employer would care about you and give you the time of day unless you have something that they want or a way to benefit them. If you need a job and are about to get evicted or don't have the money for food, they don't care about helping you when they have the power to do so because there is nothing in it for them. Why does somebody that rotten deserve our honesty?

The simple fact of the matter is that it's a time proven fact that being dishonest is advantageous in any kind of business setting. People with high amounts of Machiavellian traits tend to fare much better as business owners, in high paying jobs, or in positions of power than other people. I see absolutely zero benefit to being honest to employers unless it's beneficial to do so because I know that they wouldn't treat me with the same respect if the tables were reversed. I'm sorry, but I firmly believe that I should be loyal and honest only towards people that would give me the same respect.

What are your thoughts on this? If you disagree with me, why? I'm genuinely curious.

[gypped]

I agree; being truthful in a workplace situation never ends well. It is far better to keep one's mouth shut, and lie when you can get away with it!
For example, the last time I was honest with an employer about my mental illness, it was a disaster. I had to explain why I was crying all the time and not behaving professionally in the office, so I figured I would "come clean" with my supervisor. Never again! Companies do NOT want to "wait" for you to get "better," and they are not going to give you "extra credit" for disclosing the details of your mental illness. I told my supervisor about how I'd been seeing a psychiatrist, and sometimes my medication had a weird effect on my mood, etc. I was so naive! Instead of being sympathetic, she and the rest of my co-workers immediately starting bullying me to try to get me to quit. I was a problem that they didn't have time to fix. Since it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of someone's disability, they found other ways to force me out of the company. I got written up and disciplined for things I didn't even do, but fighting back just made me look more crazy. It was the worst time of my life. They eventually fired me, and I am too scared to ever work in an office environment again because of this.

Originally Posted by gypped

I agree; being truthful in a workplace situation never ends well. It is far better to keep one's mouth shut, and lie when you can get away with it!
For example, the last time I was honest with an employer about my mental illness, it was a disaster. I had to explain why I was crying all the time and not behaving professionally in the office, so I figured I would "come clean" with my supervisor. Never again! Companies do NOT want to "wait" for you to get "better," and they are not going to give you "extra credit" for disclosing the details of your mental illness. I told my supervisor about how I'd been seeing a psychiatrist, and sometimes my medication had a weird effect on my mood, etc. I was so naive! Instead of being sympathetic, she and the rest of my co-workers immediately starting bullying me to try to get me to quit. I was a problem that they didn't have time to fix. Since it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of someone's disability, they found other ways to force me out of the company. I got written up and disciplined for things I didn't even do, but fighting back just made me look more crazy. It was the worst time of my life. They eventually fired me, and I am too scared to ever work in an office environment again because of this.

It sucks that you have had to deal with that. Most employers can be truly heartless people.

I wouldn't be caught dead talking about my MI in front of employers because I would essentially be giving them information to use against me later and I refuse to give somebody in any position of authority any more power over me.

So yeah, they bring it upon themselves by the way they treat those with either a MI or those who come from impoverished backgrounds.

[Fresia]

I have learned that to always be honest is the best policy but that does not equate to being open. Omission is important when it comes to some things including personal life and especially learned the hard way with MI.

With my recent job when had to ask for accommodations due to MI, it was an agonizing decision for me knowing what had happened in the past and what I had seen with others. Fortunately, there was a separate HR occupational nurse that keeps records locked away and supposedly not disclosing the information to anyone. So far this has been true. I still have fear about it though for repercussions.

I have seen situations though where an employer has helped with personal situations, MI, homeless, divorce, adoption, abuse situations, etc. once learned about them directly or through the grapevine, or seen assault affects from home and stepped in to help.

There are those that believe job or not, as caring human beings, what can we do to help. I'd like to have faith in people that this was always the case but meanwhile my policy is omission, and always honest just not open unless required.

I think it depends on the business and the people who run it. A global blue chip worried about share price and reputation in the media, will act differently from a small town family run business dependent on local trade and goodwill. A company that specialises in real estate may act more cut throat than a company that rescues and cares for stray animals. What financial position the company is in will also have an effect - a firm struggling to make ends meet may cut corners more than one which is in a growth phase, dependent on securing innovation and energy from its employees to do well. A company that offers benefits that strive to increase retention and well being, will differ from one that only offers zero hour contracts and aims to do everything as cheaply as possible to make a profit.

All companies tend to have websites where they may list their values. Google's is 'to be good'. Charities seek to serve a discrete population, but often operate on a shoestring, so their heart may be in the right place, but sometimes they can't pay or reward their staff too well. Companies whose values resonate with yours can sometimes be a good choice, and it's always a useful thing to ask about in an interview, particularly how those values are reflected in the workplace.

After 30+ years in the world of work, from blue chip to small business, I can honestly say that for me "it depends". On the type of business and the people at the top. A little restaurant which needs repeat custom from local people might be a nightmare place to work because of the culture of the environment (for whatever reason). So size isn't always an issue. The type of people your boss and colleagues are is a big factor. And there are some key questions to ask at interview or during a probationary period to work out whether you're a good fit.

That being said, I live in the UK, and the 2 American companies I've worked for have had a very different work ethic and attitude to their staff. They were more aggressive in hunting down business and saw staff as dispensable. Yes, they paid very well and had a great package to offer, but it was at the cost of any sort of personal life.

I would be interested to hear other people's thoughts and experiences on working for a British or European company in the USA. Is it different from an American company?

[Turtle_Rider]

Who knows? Maybe they're seeking for perfect employee.

Some business do need integrity and honesty to do such jobs. Mostly those are specific jobs with really high skills (e.g. auditor, doctor). That's if you already have really high title or profile. Because everybody trust your high title.

For fresh graduate or staff like me, it's really hard to be honest. I only honest about my skills since it will be used for work. I keep lying or at least hiding about my true personality, my MI, because the stigma is really strong here. Even with lying it's still do not give me job until now.

I tried to be honest once, and they immediately looking down on me. It saves me a little because I later realize that was the worst employer in my interview. Just by their tones and how they treat their employee, you'll know they only want profit without thinking of their employee.

[hvert]

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

People with high amounts of Machiavellian traits tend to fare much better as business owners, in high paying jobs, or in positions of power than other people.

I've noticed this too... people with Machiavellian traits seem to rise upwards in organizations, at least for a while. I'm not sure they make good business owners, though -- the most successful business owners I know are shrewd but also seem to care about people. The mean ones often make short sighted decisions and don't do so well in the long run (I hope!).

I get the feeling that the companies I work for would prefer that I was less honest. I tend to say out loud what other people don't which makes me popular and unpopular at the same time. I think it is important that we look out for our own self interest as employees and we can do that and still have integrity.

Originally Posted by Little Cat

I would be interested to hear other people's thoughts and experiences on working for a British or European company in the USA. Is it different from an American company?

I'm interested in this also. I am in the US. I have worked for a US company with European offices and am now working for a company which was acquired by a large UK firm. Our European counterparts seem to have a lot more time off and go home even if the job isn't done, where in the US the expectation is that you will finish the job. I wonder how overtime works in the UK? Here, if I have to work over the weekend or 10 hours instead of 8, I would not get paid any extra or have any right to more time off later on. The management style of the UK company is very different from that of the US company, but I think that has more to do with the size of the company.

[seesaw]

Yeah, I don't know why this is true, but it is. I recently did a 360 review and integrity was one of the areas of review. It was interesting to see what people thought "integrity" actually meant. Employers think "integrity" means loyalty to the company at all costs. And allowing them to fire you and treat you like crap whenever they feel like it. That's their view of "integrity."

But I view integrity as someone who keeps their word, is transparent about their actions, and is honest. It doesn't mean they share every bit of information with you, but they are reliable and trustworthy.

My boss has no integrity. And I think it's hilarious that in our 360 reviews, our organization scored high on integrity. I thought that was absolute ********. But then again, they were defining integrity as loyalty and protecting the company at all costs, regardless of whether or not it was ethical or not. I have watched this organization not only blatantly break employment laws, but skirt employment laws, have an official stance on one thing but then say behind close doors it's something else, and just do some really unethical things. I don't think you can have integrity without being ethical as well.

Anyways, I guess the reason it's that way is because the management just wants to protect the company, and that's what they consider integrity - their image. They think an image of integrity is the same as integrity.

It's not.

Seesaw

Originally Posted by hvert

I'm interested in this also. I am in the US. I have worked for a US company with European offices and am now working for a company which was acquired by a large UK firm. Our European counterparts seem to have a lot more time off and go home even if the job isn't done, where in the US the expectation is that you will finish the job. I wonder how overtime works in the UK? Here, if I have to work over the weekend or 10 hours instead of 8, I would not get paid any extra or have any right to more time off later on. The management style of the UK company is very different from that of the US company, but I think that has more to do with the size of the company.

For overtime, a large UK/ European company will usually pay time and a half for evenings and weekends, and double/ triple time for bank holidays like Christmas. Many are increasingly moving to paying time off in lieu. And yes, you go home when it's reasonable to do so, which isn't always when something in finished. No disrespect to my wonderful American friends on PC, but corporate America's work ethic is INSANE. We all thought it was weird that the Americans stayed in the office after 6pm and they thought we were lazy leaving so soon. Sick pay, pensions and other stuff is completely different too. You guys are way harder or your workforce than the rest of the world! And don't get me started about dress codes.....

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Little Cat

For overtime, a large UK/ European company will usually pay time and a half for evenings and weekends, and double/ triple time for bank holidays like Christmas. Many are increasingly moving to paying time off in lieu. And yes, you go home when it's reasonable to do so, which isn't always when something in finished. No disrespect to my wonderful American friends on PC, but corporate America's work ethic is INSANE. We all thought it was weird that the Americans stayed in the office after 6pm and they thought we were lazy leaving so soon. Sick pay, pensions and other stuff is completely different too. You guys are way harder or your workforce than the rest of the world! And don't get me started about dress codes.....

I have nothing to say except that you are absolutely right. And our 'work ethic' does not increase our productivity at all.

[eyesclosed]

This is sad but true. There is a reason that drives some of this in blue collar work. Employers market. I live in Rock County WI a agriculture and blue collar community. It has been destroyed in the last 20 yrs.There was at one time one of the bigest producers of steel here. In the 1920's this place didn't have enough poeple to run. The name of the Co. is Fairbanks & Morris in Beloit WI. The company went down south too the cotton fields promoting there company and offered free housing. They built what is known now as the Fairbanks flats it still is here today although not used for that purpose. I don't know how many units there are.They brought the people up here by train. They didn't use a passenger train. I'm not sure how or why this benefit was taken away. The point is they were still making so much money that they could still afford to do this not running 3 shifts.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

The only thing I can say about why a person should be/would be honest to an employer is that it comes down to that person's core values.

Is honesty important to the person under normal circumstances? If a "friend" persistantly lies to them are they still going to be honest? If they do something they realize may hurt someone they care about, will they tell the person or just hope the person never finds out? It all depends on how much of a core value honesty is to a person. If it is a major core value than it won't matter the sacrifices the person makes - because the person will feel satisified just knowing he or she remained ttrue to themselves but if they turn from honesty they will feel a self hatred.

On the other hand, if honesty is not a deep core value - it simply depends on the whim of the person at the time. Some people are honest in order to gain trust for "when its needed later", some choose to never be honest but rather make their lies "believable", some choose just to remain neutral and give no real confirmation to questions one way or the other but rather just let their boss believe what they want. For those who do not have honesty as a deep core value, it can be much like playing a game of chess between employer and employee.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

The only thing I can say about why a person should be/would be honest to an employer is that it comes down to that person's core values.

Is honesty important to the person under normal circumstances? If a "friend" persistantly lies to them are they still going to be honest? If they do something they realize may hurt someone they care about, will they tell the person or just hope the person never finds out? It all depends on how much of a core value honesty is to a person. If it is a major core value than it won't matter the sacrifices the person makes - because the person will feel satisified just knowing he or she remained ttrue to themselves but if they turn from honesty they will feel a self hatred.

On the other hand, if honesty is not a deep core value - it simply depends on the whim of the person at the time. Some people are honest in order to gain trust for "when its needed later", some choose to never be honest but rather make their lies "believable", some choose just to remain neutral and give no real confirmation to questions one way or the other but rather just let their boss believe what they want. For those who do not have honesty as a deep core value, it can be much like playing a game of chess between employer and employee.

I also think it's a matter if what information is being shared. Are they asking something that is their business or something that's not?

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by seesaw

I also think it's a matter if what information is being shared. Are they asking something that is their business or something that's not?

"Their" meaning the employer's business to know from the employee?

In this instance, if a person is choosing to be honest, he or she would simply say "I don't see how that is anything you need to know in order for our working relationship to continue. Please refrain from asking questions not related to the workplace in future." or something similar.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

"Their" meaning the employer's business to know from the employee?

In this instance, if a person is choosing to be honest, he or she would simply say "I don't see how that is anything you need to know in order for our working relationship to continue. Please refrain from asking questions not related to the workplace in future." or something similar.

But some would define that as dishonesty by the employee by not disclosing.

[VanGore28]

My dad told me when I complained about a job I was doing that every employer expects their pound of flesh.....they are your bread and butter...and they full well know...so some take the p"£s ....or have it in the back of their mind....they do not care if you leave...as there is about fifty others out there that will take your place...as the job market is really tough and competitive...so in jobs that do not require a mass of training...you get treated unfairly.....as someone will fill your place at the drop of a hat... that is live...and I am so d£$n cynical the venom should seep through the very computer...I will; only taint your soul.... cross me....be warned.....

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

The only thing I can say about why a person should be/would be honest to an employer is that it comes down to that person's core values.

Is honesty important to the person under normal circumstances? If a "friend" persistantly lies to them are they still going to be honest? If they do something they realize may hurt someone they care about, will they tell the person or just hope the person never finds out? It all depends on how much of a core value honesty is to a person. If it is a major core value than it won't matter the sacrifices the person makes - because the person will feel satisified just knowing he or she remained ttrue to themselves but if they turn from honesty they will feel a self hatred.

On the other hand, if honesty is not a deep core value - it simply depends on the whim of the person at the time. Some people are honest in order to gain trust for "when its needed later", some choose to never be honest but rather make their lies "believable", some choose just to remain neutral and give no real confirmation to questions one way or the other but rather just let their boss believe what they want. For those who do not have honesty as a deep core value, it can be much like playing a game of chess between employer and employee.

When it comes to dealing either with friends or loved ones or even innocent people that I know to not be completely self centered or manipulative, I do value honesty and integrity.

When it comes to dealing with corporations or greedy/dangerous individuals, than getting my needs met take priority over anything else since honesty doesn't pay the bills and you can't be a good person if you are dead.

If I need money bad enough, I'm not above lying or cheating to get my way as long as I hurt nobody who I care about or deem innocent in the progress; most employers; particularly most corporations in the U.S, are the opposite of innocent.

Still though, much of the feedback in this thread has been interesting to say the least

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by seesaw

But some would define that as dishonesty by the employee by not disclosing.

It is expressing his or her sincere belief/opinion making it honest.

"Open honesty" as you seem to be speaking of here - is only really "required" in serious love relationships or other close personal relationships the person wishes for the other to know them on a "intimate" level. Business relationships do not require intimate relationships unless a personal relationship has also developed.

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend

When it comes to dealing either with friends or loved ones or even innocent people that I know to not be completely self centered or manipulative, I do value honesty and integrity.

When it comes to dealing with corporations or greedy/dangerous individuals, than getting my needs met take priority over anything else since honesty doesn't pay the bills and you can't be a good person if you are dead.

If I need money bad enough, I'm not above lying or cheating to get my way as long as I hurt nobody who I care about or deem innocent in the progress; most employers; particularly most corporations in the U.S, are the opposite of innocent.

Still though, much of the feedback in this thread has been interesting to say the least

Please don't mistake me. I am not faulting anyone for what level they choose to place honesty amongst their core values or if it places at all. Each person has their own "blend" of core values. None of it is "right" not "wrong". But on this topic - the level in which you place honesty determines the value you will place on being honest with your boss.

Much like some people have a deep rooted core value being that of compassion.
These people will bend over backwards to help anyone they see in need emotionally, physically, financially, or any other way if they are able to offer any kind of help. It won't matter the consequences of helping, they will do it anyway most times, because if they don't they will hate themselves.

There are people with a deep rooted core value for achievement. These people will do anything and everything to continue learning and once they figure out what they excel in, they will push to be the best in it - always pushing themselves harder and harder. To let up, is to fail - failure is not allowed and would cause self hatred.

It just depends what your core values are and to what extent you allow them to affect you.

You describe honesty as being a core value for you - but not a deep rooted one. This is why you are able to use honesty/dishonesty at the workplace much like one would calculate the next 5 moves to make in chess. You seem to have core values that are more focused on achievement, productivity, and success (as your deep rooted core values). At least given the description you gave of when you would n would not use honesty, that's what I would say. There is nothing wrong with that. It just puts your focus on things other than honesty at times.

Here's an example:

2 workers and 1 boss

1st worker is doing his work unusually slow and doesn't really seem to be concentrating on it at all

2nd worker is excelling at his work today and getting everything done very quickly and precisely

Boss questions 1st worker why he is slow and not concentrating

Worker says "My wife just left me."

Boss gives praise to 2nd worker and offers him a raise.

Worker says "Thanks! I will tell my wife I will be spending more time at work so we will need to find a nanny for our kids."

Now... If the boss has honesty as a deep core value - he or she will be impressed by both of these answers because both were completely honest but may try to delve further into the second worker by asking questions such as if it would be better to wait for the promotion until the nanny can be found.

If the boss has compassion as a deep core value - he or she will be taken in by the first worker's response and offer assistance of some kind most likely while he or she will be turned off by the second worker's response and not offer anything more than necessary because the first worker is in pain while the second worker is willing to cause pain for his own benefit.

If the boss has achievement as a deep core value - he or she will be tempted to cut the first worker loose and reward the second worker profusely, bc the first worker did little work while the second worker did more work.

So see, the same situation has different results based upon core values. None of them are inherently wrong. They are just in accordance with how that person is "currently built". It is possible to change core values but very hard and often comes with repercussions.

That's why I said - I place no fault on anyone for what level they choose to place honesty amongst their core values or if it places at all. Core values are personal and neither right nor wrong but are part of our central being and affect a lot of what we do, say, and think.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

It is expressing his or her sincere belief/opinion making it honest.

"Open honesty" as you seem to be speaking of here - is only really "required" in serious love relationships or other close personal relationships the person wishes for the other to know them on a "intimate" level. Business relationships do not require intimate relationships unless a personal relationship has also developed.

I agree with you, I'm just saying what some employers expect. They will define withholding information as lying, even if it's not information that concerns them directly.

For example, my CEO, during his spee of ADA violations, claimed he never asked me about my service dog or to disclose my disability, calling into question my honesty and integrity.

When in fact, I had disclosed my disability in writing to HR on my very first day of work. So he believed I was being dishonest because I didn't openly offer him personal information, when in reality I had been completely honest and ethical in terms of following what was required of me.

I think employers, when they want to, will make up anything they want to say you are dishonest. And they will stretch whatever they want into being 'dishonesty.'

Now I do highly value honesty, integrity and ethical behavior, so it's been very difficult for me to watch my employer lie about me when I can, in fact, prove in a court of law that they are lying.

So I think it's true that employers expect full disclosure and 'honesty' from us while not providing the same in return.

Seesaw

[Crypts_Of_The_Mind]

Originally Posted by seesaw

I agree with you, I'm just saying what some employers expect. They will define withholding information as lying, even if it's not information that concerns them directly.

For example, my CEO, during his spee of ADA violations, claimed he never asked me about my service dog or to disclose my disability, calling into question my honesty and integrity.

When in fact, I had disclosed my disability in writing to HR on my very first day of work. So he believed I was being dishonest because I didn't openly offer him personal information, when in reality I had been completely honest and ethical in terms of following what was required of me.

I think employers, when they want to, will make up anything they want to say you are dishonest. And they will stretch whatever they want into being 'dishonesty.'

Now I do highly value honesty, integrity and ethical behavior, so it's been very difficult for me to watch my employer lie about me when I can, in fact, prove in a court of law that they are lying.

So I think it's true that employers expect full disclosure and 'honesty' from us while not providing the same in return.

Seesaw

I agree employers (for the most part) are dishonest and manipulative.
My whole point was that those with the core value of honesty will remain honest to a point it hurts - as you have shown. I have no doubt honesty is a core value for you and I am sorry for the way you have been treated. I hope everything turns out well for you. ❤

[hvert]

Originally Posted by Little Cat

And don't get me started about dress codes.....

Okay, I need to know about the dress code We have some of our UK team on site right now and they are dressed a lot better than I am (but I tend to dress poorly, lol).

You have the better end of the work/life balance expectations, for sure - one of the UK guys I work with does not believe that people regularly work outside normal office hours. It's a struggle because he'll bring down key systems without warning after 5 PM, not good when some department is working all night to meet a deadline! Working fewer hours and having more vacation time sounds better... but I don't see that happening here anytime soon! I'd like the time off, but I'd be annoyed that everything took longer to get done.

Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind

Please don't mistake me. I am not faulting anyone for what level they choose to place honesty amongst their core values or if it places at all. Each person has their own "blend" of core values. None of it is "right" not "wrong". But on this topic - the level in which you place honesty determines the value you will place on being honest with your boss.

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought for a moment that you were judging me for my cunning nature towards employers or other authority figures that I may be dependent on, but I'm glad to see that this isn't the case.

Anyways, I do like your description of core values, however, I don't know if having "achievement" as my core values is entirely accurate.

I say this because I can be the nicest, most laid back person you will ever meet when I am able to get my needs met and I have a stable life, however, when that isn't the case, I can become a ruthless cunning person who is capable of doing great harm to those that I deem a threat, which is more often than not employers who won't give me a job when I need one or people who come from financially well off families or who have a lot of wealth themselves but feel the need to go around bragging about things they bought or how much better they think they are because of their wealth.

So while I am goal oriented and passionate to a fault, I'm not one who would go around lying or manipulating people unless I feel like my stability is being threatened, and even then, I wouldn't do that to innocent people unless there was absolutely no choice (such as if I was on the streets and haven't eaten anything for over a week and I couldn't get help by being honest, in which case I would have no moral objections against stealing food from a big corporation like Walmart instead ofhurting an individual who is struggling like me, for example) but I won't get into that.

Originally Posted by Little Cat

The type of people your boss and colleagues are is a big factor.

This has always been my number one concern. Nearly all jobs require effort (you need to at least show up on time, etc), accuracy, productivity but some companies have unreasonable expectations. Good bosses encourage potential (it is different for everyone) and don't beat people up inappropriately. For example, when I worked in a call center, my sales stats were middle of the road while the number of "very satisified" customer surveys received was extremely high. If you looked at the stats--most of the people with the best sales received very few "very satisfied" surveys because they got those sales by getting rid of customers with problems (so they could go onto better prospects--we were the number you called if you had a billing problem yet we were supposed to get people to "upgrade" their service). One of my supervisors was extremely kind--he would tell me this--"So long as you keep getting those "very satisfied" surveys--don't worry about your sales. I will help you. Without those surveys, my team would not be meeting its milestones so you are just as valuable as my best salepeople." I think he understood that my anxiety needed that reassurance--because he said this, I was able to relax more when he listened to my calls and use his feedback to improve my sales performance. If he had beat me up for my sales stats--my anxiety would have increased, causing me to panic on some calls and it would have made my performance worse. He was a really great boss....

As far as honesty goes--in many companies nearly everyone knows its a game of survival--ie, CYA, ensure you are not the last person who handled the hot potato, etc. until you get yourself into a less precarius position. Many times it comes down to luck. For instance, in a call center, a bad customer could hose your stats for the month. Occassionally, someone can come in, perform brilliantly for their first 6 months (combination of luck, talent and sometimes dishonesty)--and get promoted--when dishonest people get promoted, the companies culture of dishonesty becomes worse and worse. Dishonesty is not the only way people get ahead in companies, but, unfortunately, it is one of the ways. That is why you do find some dishonest people in upper management. Dishonest companies cause so much heartbreak--companies like Enron (used fake accounting to hide financial losses) and Countrywide Financial (one of many who made liars loans then pawned them off as no risk). It can make you sick if you think about what goes on.

Originally Posted by hvert

Okay, I need to know about the dress code We have some of our UK team on site right now and they are dressed a lot better than I am (but I tend to dress poorly, lol).

You have the better end of the work/life balance expectations, for sure - one of the UK guys I work with does not believe that people regularly work outside normal office hours. It's a struggle because he'll bring down key systems without warning after 5 PM, not good when some department is working all night to meet a deadline! Working fewer hours and having more vacation time sounds better... but I don't see that happening here anytime soon! I'd like the time off, but I'd be annoyed that everything took longer to get done.

the dress code in the UK tends to be a lot more laid back too. But when British or European companies move to the States, we all get told that your standards are so much higher than ours, so we get a long series of briefings about what is acceptable to wear and what isn't. One of the US companies I worked for in the UK was also in IT and our HQ was in London. When one of our top coders came into work one very hot sunny day in the summer, he was wearing flip flops. The American director wanted to fire him on the spot for violating the company's dress code. Unbelievable. So we all said if he went, we would all go, and they'd have a hard time recruiting people quickly enough for them to meet their contract deadlines. So the guy was allowed to stay and we eventually compromised. But we could always tell when one of the Americans was going back to the States because they started dressing differently (sharper). Most of them found it hard to adjust to a slower pace of life, but once they did, they found it even harder when their work permits ran out and they had to go back. We had a few trips to the US where us Brits could come and see how you did things (same products but on a massive scale) and while we all had fun and enjoyed our insight into America, none of us took up the offer of a green card. Yes, you live in an amazing country, the land of opportunity, but companies don't treat staff that well as they do here and given how much time we all spend at work, we decided to stay where we were.