[ArchieAus]

I don't want to bring you down , and I know for most there is no other option ...but .. This work thing , it's a fabrication by the elite to enslave you for the rest of your useful life . In school they tell you " you can be anyone you want to be " for 99% of us that is not an option . School is only there to teach you to conform , then the next step is to chain you up as a debt slave so you are committed to continue the grind into old age . If you do get to retire with a few bob in your pocket ...you don't know what to do with yourself because you spent 50 years chained to a wheel you didn't care about and lost your vigor ... that's how it is , but probably not what it should be . Mental health , drugs ..is it any wonder it's on the increase . But anyway . It is what it is . It would be nice if it was different . Yes it could be a lot worse I agree . Perhaps I am just ungrateful for the privileged age I live in ? . Some measure intelligence by how much time a species spends at leisure ..enjoying themselves .. against this scale dolphins are way smarter than us .. but of course their not .. it's just their society is not driven by greed and power .

[Shazerac]

I agree that your life is going to be extremely difficult if you view work as enslavement. However the cold hard facts are that you have to find some way to put food in your mouth and a roof over your head. Before jobs were invented poeple still had to hunt for food, or grow it, and gather materials to build a shelter. Unless you go off the grid and grow your own food and hunt, you will need some means of obtaining a medium of exchange (money) to obtain the things you need.

Unless of course you feel like that all these things should be provided for you with no effort on your part. In this case some else is being a slave to give you what you want.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Shazerac

I agree that your life is going to be extremely difficult if you view work as enslavement. However the cold hard facts are that you have to find some way to put food in your mouth and a roof over your head. Before jobs were invented poeple still had to hunt for food, or grow it, and gather materials to build a shelter. Unless you go off the grid and grow your own food and hunt, you will need some means of obtaining a medium of exchange (money) to obtain the things you need.

Unless of course you feel like that all these things should be provided for you with no effort on your part. In this case some else is being a slave to give you what you want.

Agreed. And not all work is drudgery. Many people greatly enjoy their jobs and get a huge sense of fulfillment out of it. I know I do. Yes, some days the pace and the requirement to be in the office make me feel like a slave, but then other days I see the faces of children whose lives I've helped to change and I feel renewed with purpose.

I've thought many times that I'd like to be a farmer or rancher and grow/raise my own food and go off the grid in that way, because I like the idea of self-reliance, etc. If that's the way you view life and the value you give to work, then you're going to be very unhappy. It's all about perspective. You may view working people as slaves, but our work and our taxes support those who cannot. I do not see myself as a slave. I see myself as an important part of society that helps to benefit the less fortunate.

Seesaw

[ArchieAus]

You both make a good case for the current structure and of course your right in many ways as this is how our society is constructed . My view is a negative one I'll agree , but it's a negative one not for the reason of just being bitter , but to wonder why in this age , we as a society didn't channel our energys since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution into forming a better society . Based on fulfilment and improving quality of emotional life . I reckon that it's a Catch 22 situation . Greed and power drive the elite 5 % who control the western world who ( in my opinion ) brainwash everyone into believing this is the only way . There are so many people out there who could have produced a better system , encompassing all ... but they were never likely to get to influential positions ...because they were not driven by greed or power
Thank you so much for your replies . They bring balance to my biased argument . For the record , I have walked the path so feel I get to have a say , even if perceived as dillusional . I started work at 15 , have worked 60-70 hrs a week till now as an underground miner . I have never required ( or wished for ) $1 of welfare , but have hopefully contributed to less fortunate people's care . I have been in the top 5 % of wage earners in my country for the last 20 years , and will fund 100% my own retirement when it comes .I'm now 52 and even though it has worked well for me and you would think I was a true believer in the system . I still question why it has to be this way . Greed and power of the elite is my answer . Control of the masses by the few , trick is to make them think they aren't being controlled

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by ArchieAus

You both make a good case for the current structure and of course your right in many ways as this is how our society is constructed . My view is a negative one I'll agree , but it's a negative one not for the reason of just being bitter , but to wonder why in this age , we as a society didn't channel our energys since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution into forming a better society . Based on fulfilment and improving quality of emotional life . I reckon that it's a Catch 22 situation . Greed and power drive the elite 5 % who control the western world who ( in my opinion ) brainwash everyone into believing this is the only way . There are so many people out there who could have produced a better system , encompassing all ... but they were never likely to get to influential positions ...because they were not driven by greed or power
Thank you so much for your replies . They bring balance to my biased argument . For the record , I have walked the path so feel I get to have a say , even if perceived as dillusional . I started work at 15 , have worked 60-70 hrs a week till now as an underground miner . I have never required ( or wished for ) $1 of welfare , but have hopefully contributed to less fortunate people's care . I have been in the top 5 % of wage earners in my country for the last 20 years , and will fund 100% my own retirement when it comes .I'm now 52 and even though it has worked well for me and you would think I was a true believer in the system . I still question why it has to be this way . Greed and power of the elite is my answer . Control of the masses by the few , trick is to make them think they aren't being controlled

I think it's always good to keep questioning how was can make our society better.

[ArchieAus]

Sorry , I can see my posts are quite long and fairly boring , but felt I should add some "policy "
Why should it be felt normal for the average family to spend a life buying a house for themselves . Because shelter has been turned into a money making venture by the establishment . This should never have been allowed to happen .

Why has the cost of living been allowed to soar to levels where all parental care givers of children need to work excessively long hours to support the family unit . Everything goes up when the next boom hits , but only wages come down when we bust .

Why are we told that inflation is good . Devaluing money in the false belief that because something we went into debt 10 years ago is now worth more ... it's not . Money has just devalued . Your wealth has not increased , just the number of zeros on your credits and debts has .

The end result is a circular reference . Western economy's now cost more and more to operate ...and yet the revenue they collect from us covers less and less of those costs . In 50 years standard of living for your average Joe will have lowered even more , but the elite establishment will be richer . The Capatilist society looks untenable in the future .

I'm not a communist , far from it . Communism is just another form of Facism , but quite honestly , modern Capatalism for the vast majority is going to be a life of huge debt , working in lowering conditions , under the impression they are achieving . Will it end , or get to the stage that you are born with your family's debt ? , because one lifetime won't be long enough to pay it back . How can this be the way forward ? , it's ludicrous. It's also not very good for people's mental health and issues in that dept will continue to rise . We have rising issues with depression , suicide , substance abuse etc . We always treat the symptoms of these things , we don't identify the real cause . Our crazy inverted society has a part to play in that . Greed and Power . Striving for that by 5% of the 7 billion people who inhabit Earth has brought us to that .

[ArcheM]

Maybe we're creatures that are very well adapted to walking down a prairy in the company of a small group of friends (which is why it's recommended and usually feels good), a little bit adapted to farming and cattle-raising in a small village, and not at all adapted to abstractly producing wealth in a giant city... Unfortunately, we're probably not going to become adapted to that, because we keep throwing new challenges at ourselves at an unsustainable rate... Oh, hey, people are going to get confused about my username again, I guess.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by ArcheM

Maybe we're creatures that are very well adapted to walking down a prairy in the company of a small group of friends (which is why it's recommended and usually feels good), a little bit adapted to farming and cattle-raising in a small village, and not at all adapted to abstractly producing wealth in a giant city... Unfortunately, we're probably not going to become adapted to that, because we keep throwing new challenges at ourselves at an unsustainable rate... Oh, hey, people are going to get confused about my username again, I guess.

So you have two accounts? Because that's not allowed.

Originally Posted by ArchieAus

Perhaps I am just ungrateful for the privileged age I live in ? . Some measure intelligence by how much time a species spends at leisure ..enjoying themselves .. against this scale dolphins are way smarter than us .. but of course their not .. it's just their society is not driven by greed and power .

I think the problem is that modern employment is just out of control hours wise and policy wise. 8 hours plus commute is just simply too long. No one cares how much work you do but just that you are there.

That is what makes me think it is slavery.

It also makes me think that it is a way to keep the masses under control. For years now I have had open internet at work and suddenly we got a filter. Do they really think that is going to inspire me to do more work? Heck no. It obvious must be so that we won't be able to do things at work and will have to do them at home thus making us have less free time.

My workplace is completely insane. Those who are idiots get the promotions. Anyone who is helpful... is merely tolerated. Typically the idiots are the ones who are irresponsible. But usually the ones that don't know how to think. They won't be a danger, they will follow directions. They will have the 2.5 kids even though they can't afford them. They will be rewarded for being a good little slave.

[ArcheM]

Originally Posted by seesaw

So you have two accounts? Because that's not allowed.

What? No! (Was that humor?) I meant that people have just stopped calling me Archie (while there is no 'i'), and a similar username right above me is going to throw things out of whack again.

@Emily Fox Seaton
Interesting that I've just listened to a podcast about the Peter principle. Everybody ends up getting the position at which they are incompetent. I certainly feel incompetent, and I'm at the entry level.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by ArcheM

What? No! (Was that humor?) I meant that people have just stopped calling me Archie (while there is no 'i'), and a similar username right above me is going to throw things out of whack again.

@Emily Fox Seaton
Interesting that I've just listened to a podcast about the Peter principle. Everybody ends up getting the position at which they are incompetent. I certainly feel incompetent, and I'm at the entry level.

Oh, I'm sorry! As you predicted, I was very confused! I thought you were the same person.

I am reading the Peter Principle, interesting that you brought it up. Yes, I have experienced that myself, where people rise to their own level of incompetence. I don't feel like I've been in that position yet, but I also know my limits and don't aspire to be in positions that I feel I'm in over my head. But several managers I've had in my career have been in well over their heads and not known how to manage teams or have any experience doing that particular job. I think the Peter Principle should be more widely taught for sure.

Seesaw

[ArchieAus]

The supervisor ... an interesting sub catagory . Generally you get chosen to supervise , because you are good at the job ( at least in my world ) . Then all of a sudden there you are , the boss , without any idea how to lead people . You bumble along making mistakes until hopefully one day you gain some skills . Leading people can have it's rewards , but can also be a huge mental challenge . Juggling business expectations whilst still trying to be a leader and not just a manager . Every now and again it dawns on you that your guys are doing things not because they have to , but they believe in you and want to please you . It's a euphoric moment in the endless mind draining , burnout inevitable spiral . 15 years running a team and a multi million dollar budget in an underground gold mine .. takes its toll . Oh well 4:30 am ..back to the death camp . Once more into the breaches

[aestheticbeam]

Originally Posted by ArchieAus

Perhaps I am just ungrateful for the privileged age I live in ? . Some measure intelligence by how much time a species spends at leisure ..enjoying themselves .. against this scale dolphins are way smarter than us .. but of course their not .. it's just their society is not driven by greed and power .

You're not being ungrateful at all. Just because some people have it worse in other parts of the world, doesn't mean you can't have an issue with the capitalist society we live in, which is, by definition, exploitative.

Being expected to work 40+ hours a day, for the majority of your life, is not normal, and very restrictive. It's soul-destroying, and restricts our freedom. We only get one life, so imagine slaving away for most of it, only to earn money to buy material things, which mean absolutely nothing when we die. Sacrificing and neglecting other areas just for the sake of work. Everything we do in our so-called "free time" just fills the gap between having to go to work and do it all over again. We've all been socialised to believe that this is something we must accept. That it's an inevitable part of adult life, but I'm going to do everything in my power to avoid conforming to it.

I haven't even been working full time for that long. I don't mind the job itself, but I hate that I have to dedicate so much of my time to it. I see colleagues more than those I care about. Besides the 8.5 hours a day, there's the commute which is a minimum one hour both ways, plus getting ready for work an hour each day. When I eventually get back, I gotta cook and make dinner, take care of personal hygiene, chores, then there's barely just enough time to relax for a short while and watch some TV or something, and then go to bed. It's very unfulfilling. This is not the life I want to lead. Under these circumstances, a work-life balance is unachievable in my eyes. Balance is not sacrificing and neglecting every other aspect of your life for the sake of work. Balance is healthy, and will enable one to cater to all aspects of one's life and to actually be able to focus on achieving personal goals, and work on self-development (which are both signs of success to me).

[ArchieAus]

Yes , that's the truth of it

Originally Posted by aestheticbeam

I haven't even been working full time for that long. I don't mind the job itself, but I hate that I have to dedicate so much of my time to it. I see colleagues more than those I care about. Besides the 8.5 hours a day, there's the commute which is a minimum one hour both ways, plus getting ready for work an hour each day. When I eventually get back, I gotta cook and make dinner, take care of personal hygiene, chores, then there's barely just enough time to relax for a short while and watch some TV or something, and then go to bed. It's very unfulfilling. This is not the life I want to lead. Under these circumstances, a work-life balance is unachievable in my eyes. Balance is not sacrificing and neglecting every other aspect of your life for the sake of work. Balance is healthy, and will enable one to cater to all aspects of one's life and to actually be able to focus on achieving personal goals, and work on self-development (which are both signs of success to me).

Agree with all of this. When I was younger I felt that working would be something I would want to do. But I didn't count on all the "bloat" drains on my time... including the commute and the time to get ready for work.

I also didn't realize how hard it would be to get time off. I have leave time but there are all these "restrictions" on my time.

I have a stunning 10 + more years before I am eligible for retirement. I am working hard to make sure that I can retire as soon as possible.