I'm nearly 50 and my history of job hopping (and the longest job I had I was fired from, so they can't be used as a reference).

As I try to find a full-time job before my mother goes into assisted living by the end of summer, how do I explain to prospective employers that I don't have 3 professional job references?

I can use a former professor (last semester) as an academic reference. And, I have two temp agencies that can vouch for my work history with them which is clean with no reports of any problems.

But, that's all I have to offer; 2 temp agency references and 1 academic professor as a reference.

Any suggestions as to how to get around the job reference requirement? I see a lot of jobs I could apply for online but hesitate to b/c of accumulative job hopping (which I'm trying to reframe on my resume by using the functional format to showcase my skill sets, and not shine the spotlight on my job hopping).

I don't want to keep making the wrong choices, job-wise. That's what got me into this mess in the first place.

[divine1966]

Professional reference could be from someone you worked with. In any job. Don’t need to be your boss. Or professional job or full time job. Simply a coworker. Past or present.

Academic reference is acceptable as a professional reference. These have to be people who know you in a setting that is somewhat professional but doesn’t always mean work (students who just graduated maybe didn’t ever work yet). Since you have several degrees you have met ton of professors. You can use any of them, all three could be college professors.

Also even if you didn’t have long term or full time employment you did have some type of jobs, anyone you worked with at any point could be a reference. You could find people on social media if you lost contact.

My husband got a new job last year and he really wanted his former DON to be one of the references, he couldn’t find him as guy moved out of state and changed phone number. Sure enough he found him on Facebook and the guy was more than happy to be a reference. So these people could be from your old jobs from years ago

[saidso]

Looking back on my work history, I think that the weight placed on references varies greatly from one company and one job to another. Maybe do some thinking and research about what type of company may just want to know that you are honest and not a troublemaker and will focus more on your skills. Where I live applying for permanent jobs in big companies is more competitive in terms of good references. Smaller companies are more likely to need someone who can walk in and do the job at short notice.

I got back into work myself through an agency who knew that someone had walked out and left a boss in the lurch. At that moment in time he didn't much care who I was so long as I could get in and take the problem off his hands. It wasn't an easy situation but it gave me a much-needed leg up.

[rechu]

My experience has been like saidso. Some places seem to care about references, others not at all. It varies a lot.

And, I also agree with divine that it could be a co-worker. I quit my job before my current one. The owner had anger management issues and did not take it well, so he was out as a reference. However, the editor/journalist I worked with closely said she'd happily be a reference for me. It was clear she knew he'd never provide a decent reference, even though I was polite about everything and gave two week's notice, etc.

list friends if need be. I have done that. if they can give you a good report then run with it.

[seesaw]

I have used coworkers or people on other departments who I worked with closely but who were high up.because I ddint want my current boss to know I was looking. Never had an issue with using them instead of my direct boss.

[WishfulThinker66]

Work references are not nearly as important as personal. Besides, in most places a work reference isn't permitted by law anyway to detail or comment on your performance other than to confirm your employment. Thus, it is the personal references that count.

Ensure however these are not purely social acquaintances. They should be people who are professionals who can speak to your character. Yep, professors are good. But surely you have peers who are professional? On my resume, I have included: a work colleague, a person I managed, and a person I encountered during my usual workday (sometimes this has been a client or customer of mine).

Make sure however that your references are constantly tweaked in that they remain current and relevant. A professor is a great idea - providing they taught you within the last year (two at most). Also, ensure you have the individual's permission to use as a reference. I continue to get calls for a reference for a former colleague. Not only has she never asked me for permission I last worked with her 11 years ago. It has grown tedious and I admit now that I don't even bother to have a conversation with the prospective employer. I simply say yes I worked with her. Done. So don't put yourself in such a position.

Literally, every job I apply for asks for professional references, so it's not an option for me not to provide 3 professional references.

I haven't done anything but substitute teach for the past 5 years and the administrative professional references I have are bad (burned bridges with bosses, not sure about coworkers as those were temp jobs too, so I don't even have personal references for the office temp jobs I did). I can provide teachers as professional references but those don't really apply to the administrative jobs I'm applying for.

I don't have current references b/c of substitute teaching and old temp jobs. That's what my dilemma is, unfortunately. So, I already put myself in a position of not having current, good, job references. Can't undo it.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

Literally, every job I apply for asks for professional references, so it's not an option for me not to provide 3 professional references.

I haven't done anything but substitute teach for the past 5 years and the administrative professional references I have are bad (burned bridges with bosses, not sure about coworkers as those were temp jobs too, so I don't even have personal references for the office temp jobs I did). I can provide teachers as professional references but those don't really apply to the administrative jobs I'm applying for.

I don't have current references b/c of substitute teaching and old temp jobs. That's what my dilemma is, unfortunately. So, I already put myself in a position of not having current, good, job references. Can't undo it.

The nature of the work is not as relevant as you think. I am a hiring manager. And any professional reference is good if you can't have the very best. So like any co-worker, whether it's from when you were teaching or another position is fine. The things we're going to ask your reference are about your work ethic and punctuality, not necessarily about details of the job or the actual tasks you will have to do. Obviously a person you reported to is better, but failing that, a coworker does just fine. I have been hired for promotions using people on the same level as me. A personal reference can be a professional reference.

I think some responders here (not you Streetcar) are confusing what a professional reference is. It's not the HR manager at your previous job who is only allowed to confirm employment, position, and dates. I can call ALL your past employers and ask them to confirm employment. The professional references are people you have given permission to speak to your professionalism. So a professor or coworker can work just fine for this if they're willing to say the positive things about you like you turn work in on time, you show up on time, you work hard, go the extra mile. References are a bit of a formality. Employers don't expect to get anything particularly telling out of them. It's mostly due diligence.

Originally Posted by seesaw

The nature of the work is not as relevant as you think. I am a hiring manager. And any professional reference is good if you can't have the very best. So like any co-worker, whether it's from when you were teaching or another position is fine. The things we're going to ask your reference are about your work ethic and punctuality, not necessarily about details of the job or the actual tasks you will have to do. Obviously a person you reported to is better, but failing that, a coworker does just fine. I have been hired for promotions using people on the same level as me. A personal reference can be a professional reference.

I think some responders here (not you Streetcar) are confusing what a professional reference is. It's not the HR manager at your previous job who is only allowed to confirm employment, position, and dates. I can call ALL your past employers and ask them to confirm employment. The professional references are people you have given permission to speak to your professionalism. So a professor or coworker can work just fine for this if they're willing to say the positive things about you like you turn work in on time, you show up on time, you work hard, go the extra mile. References are a bit of a formality. Employers don't expect to get anything particularly telling out of them. It's mostly due diligence.

Good points. However, my former substitute teaching placement agency has broken the law then, by going into specific details with even my temp agency recruiters about assignments I was on, where students assaulted me, citing to the recruiter that is an example of my poor classroom management. So, the human resources people at my former substitute teaching placement agency can't be trusted to act as a professional reference for me b/c they are divulging protected information to prospective employers (my temp agency recruiters) about examples of my negative encounters with students.

So, my only recourse is to contact teachers I subbed for, whose classroom I had a positive experience in. I have zero administrative references except for maybe one; but that was from 5 years ago and is not current. So, is 5 years too old?

I did not realize professional references had an expiration date on them. I thought that was only for dairy products and organic produce you buy at the grocery store. I didn't think people's opinions had expiration dates. That is disappointing to learn.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

Good points. However, my former substitute teaching placement agency has broken the law then, by going into specific details with even my temp agency recruiters about assignments I was on, where students assaulted me, citing to the recruiter that is an example of my poor classroom management. So, the human resources people at my former substitute teaching placement agency can't be trusted to act as a professional reference for me b/c they are divulging protected information to prospective employers (my temp agency recruiters) about examples of my negative encounters with students.

So, my only recourse is to contact teachers I subbed for, whose classroom I had a positive experience in. I have zero administrative references except for maybe one; but that was from 5 years ago and is not current. So, is 5 years too old?

I did not realize professional references had an expiration date on them. I thought that was only for dairy products and organic produce you buy at the grocery store. I didn't think people's opinions had expiration dates. That is disappointing to learn.

I am not sure the exact laws about disclosing anything about incidents like "assaults" but if an HR manager who was not listed as a reference was contacted simply to verify employment and they said you had poor classroom management skills then yes, you could actually sue them. In fact, that example is distinctly why HR managers will not say more. They have liability.

You can use a reference that you haven't worked with in over 5 years if they are willing. I have one on my resume that hasn't worked with me in over 5 years but she still knows me. They would only be able to speak to their experience working with you, which is fine. But some people are uncomfortable providing a reference if they haven't worked directly with you in a while. I had a direct supervisor, after it had only been like 2 years since I left, say she wouldn't give me a reference, which was quite shocking, considering how close we had been, she cried when I left, etc., but I did find that she was quite two-faced, so, in the end it kind of added up.

Ok. And then there's this temp agency that is flexible with my schedule as I deal with my mother's now diagnosed Alzheimers since I live with her. I don't work very much for them but I come in when I can. Should I count on them as a positive job reference? Because of my personal situation? I contacted an old drum instructor for a reference he said no. I contacted an old temp reference and she said no. So far, just "no's".

[WishfulThinker66]

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

Good points. However, my former substitute teaching placement agency has broken the law then, by going into specific details with even my temp agency recruiters about assignments I was on, where students assaulted me, citing to the recruiter that is an example of my poor classroom management. So, the human resources people at my former substitute teaching placement agency can't be trusted to act as a professional reference for me b/c they are divulging protected information to prospective employers (my temp agency recruiters) about examples of my negative encounters with students.

So, my only recourse is to contact teachers I subbed for, whose classroom I had a positive experience in. I have zero administrative references except for maybe one; but that was from 5 years ago and is not current. So, is 5 years too old?

I did not realize professional references had an expiration date on them. I thought that was only for dairy products and organic produce you buy at the grocery store. I didn't think people's opinions had expiration dates. That is disappointing to learn.

I think the post prior to the above was pretty amazing actually and I want to address your response.

Regarding what your former employer did, were this in the majority of Canada for instance, that would in fact be breaking the law and worthy of addressing via the Labour Board. I am sorry to hear they would do such a thing.

As for those professional references you need... as previously pointed out they need not be people you actually worked for or alongside. For instance a professional colleague could be a peer from a similar business or industry you had professional contact with. A colleague could be someone you volunteer with. A great reference source is from a former client - perhaps you might get a reference from a the parent of a former student even. A professional might even be someone you encountered regularly who can speak to your character.

I too have been a hiring manager. I did not want to know a run down of all the skills persay a candidate performed. I wanted to know what their work ethic was. I wanted to know how they got along with their co-workers. I wanted to know if they were a self-starter? A team player? Trainable? and above all RELIABLE.

Ideas... have you ever volunteered? Have you worked with clients or customers? Have you developed relationships with peers in your previous work places? Do you have anyone who can speak to your accomplishments?

[sarahsweets]

Do you have any friends that could bend the truth a little for a personal reference? A week and a half ago I applied to be a substitute teacher and I am using my half brothers, my neighbor and my best friend as personal references. They all have "worked" with me on different projects just none in an official capacity as my employer.

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

I'm nearly 50 and my history of job hopping (and the longest job I had I was fired from, so they can't be used as a reference).

As I try to find a full-time job before my mother goes into assisted living by the end of summer, how do I explain to prospective employers that I don't have 3 professional job references?

I can use a former professor (last semester) as an academic reference. And, I have two temp agencies that can vouch for my work history with them which is clean with no reports of any problems.

But, that's all I have to offer; 2 temp agency references and 1 academic professor as a reference.

Any suggestions as to how to get around the job reference requirement? I see a lot of jobs I could apply for online but hesitate to b/c of accumulative job hopping (which I'm trying to reframe on my resume by using the functional format to showcase my skill sets, and not shine the spotlight on my job hopping).

I don't want to keep making the wrong choices, job-wise. That's what got me into this mess in the first place.

basically at this point I would people who know you and are in good solid positions in their lives and just apply. delaying and deciding accomplishes nothing. apply. bad resume or not, if you don't apply you will never get any positions...get a position, it may not be the job of a lifetime but it will get you in the door and a steady income. but you have to apply. stop wafting..and be like nike & just do it. take the plunge.

[saidso]

"I wanted to know what their work ethic was. I wanted to know how they got along with their co-workers. I wanted to know if they were a self-starter? A team player? Trainable? and above all RELIABLE."

Seesaw and Wishful Thinker have both given good examples of professional references. I'm quoting Seesaw because you may also find with well-disposed people that you need to give them some idea of the qualities needed in your new employment. I've written references for myself twice when I had referees who felt kindly towards me but didn't really know me super well, in extremis that is. Give them a script and ask them to type up whatever points they can genuinely agree with.

Seems like changing from teaching sub to admin might require different skills.

You are going to work your way through this. Can you get one or two day admin subbing jobs for example? What did you do well? Then get one week appointments, then six months. Really there is no magic. Just doing it, and not blaming yourself for the bad runs.

Doesn't matter at all if you had poor classroom management if you're not applying to be a teacher: although managing some bosses might require similar mindsets lol. What skills did you use caring for your mum? Organisation, patience, that kind of thing? Is there a professional in your acquaintance who could vouch for you being well-organised and patient?

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by saidso

"I wanted to know what their work ethic was. I wanted to know how they got along with their co-workers. I wanted to know if they were a self-starter? A team player? Trainable? and above all RELIABLE."

Seesaw and Wishful Thinker have both given good examples of professional references. I'm quoting Seesaw because you may also find with well-disposed people that you need to give them some idea of the qualities needed in your new employment. I've written references for myself twice when I had referees who felt kindly towards me but didn't really know me super well, in extremis that is. Give them a script and ask them to type up whatever points they can genuinely agree with.

Seems like changing from teaching sub to admin might require different skills.

You are going to work your way through this. Can you get one or two day admin subbing jobs for example? What did you do well? Then get one week appointments, then six months. Really there is no magic. Just doing it, and not blaming yourself for the bad runs.

Doesn't matter at all if you had poor classroom management if you're not applying to be a teacher: although managing some bosses might require similar mindsets lol. What skills did you use caring for your mum? Organisation, patience, that kind of thing? Is there a professional in your acquaintance who could vouch for you being well-organised and patient?

Oh, this as well. I literally tell my references what I need them to say. They know what the gig is, and they are totally okay being coached on what I need to come across.

This weekend I am going to sit down and go through my email contacts to see who I can reach out to ask for a work reference. Then , I will send each person a short 2-3 sentence summary of the jobs I"m applying for and a refresher of how I know them. I don't know if any of these people will respond but I have to try at least.

yup. because if you want work ya gotta play the game. talking about it won't get you there. teaching and admin are similar..if you can get a classroom of little kids to work and move foreword, you have admin skills...keeping 20 kids on a path takes mad skills...think outside the box....but think.

[Perna]

I revamped my resume to make it look like I was doing my own thing and deliberate about it, throwing in the education and "independent projects" and making it look like I had my own agenda and purposes for my life and "they" would be lucky if I made them part of it I just put types of work ("including x, y, and z") and had references that included friends who had their own companies, etc. I did have at least one reference from the sort of job I was looking at.

Could you maybe get a couple of part-time jobs that were not so reference-needy and then build on that in six months to a year?

Originally Posted by Perna

I revamped my resume to make it look like I was doing my own thing and deliberate about it, throwing in the education and "independent projects" and making it look like I had my own agenda and purposes for my life and "they" would be lucky if I made them part of it I just put types of work ("including x, y, and z") and had references that included friends who had their own companies, etc. I did have at least one reference from the sort of job I was looking at.

Could you maybe get a couple of part-time jobs that were not so reference-needy and then build on that in six months to a year?

Hi Perna,

Oh, I reformat my resume for each job that I apply for. But I'm a hob hopper and thus have zero long-term roles work-wise, with the exception of substitute teaching for over five years for a company that fired me so now they can't be used as a reference.

I have tried retail but I have such bad asthma and other health problems, that I can't physical handle being on my feet for as long as retail jobs require. So those are not possible for me. Good suggestion though.

Even if I could snag a part-time office job and build on that in six months to a year, that would be ideal but so far, even those part-time jobs require work references.

My email list of possible references is pretty slim - I went over my email contact list today - and the only people i could ask would be 2 cousins and 1 former acquaintance from years ago.

[saidso]

Sounds like you have three references then - providing that they can write correct grammer and if possible on headed notepaper .

This isn't easy but you know that in a way you have brought it on yourself and now need to dig yourself a way out. The amount of bad situations that I've been in, and now I'm fine.

Also, do you know whether your substitute teaching agency will give you a basic reference = worked from x to x, turned up, didn't steal the cash - that kind of thing? Just checking whether you are assuming they won't or you know for sure that they won't. It might be worth asking.

Good luck in pushing through this. I've been shredding all my past tax returns today. When I was in work I took it so seriously but the world of work sure is weird looking backwards... So much running around learning stupid things just to have a roof over my head and food in the belly.

One way to find out what is the minimum references would be to do admin for a temp agency. I worked well paid contract for an agency and their main priority regarding references was that I could prove that I hadn't been in prison etc. Hard for people who have criminel convictions but you understand employers need some history about people they have on their premises.

Can you get funding to go on a simple secretarial course = typing, word processing, spreadsheets? If you can type or input figures fast that is another way to get jobs.

If you are confident talking with people (I bet you are!) how about market research call centres (not selling) : that's sitting down and you meet creative people. You just need to concentrate and read from a script, and not to flip if callers are unhappy. From that you could move into banking call centres or else health emergencies, or else get a reference and move upwards.