[Lets Talk]

Hey Guys,

Most people know that benzodiazapines (like lorazapam, clonazapam, adivan) are addictive. I have been on clonazapam since 2005. I don't feel addicted to it, I don't crave it, I could drop it today...but...my body is addicted to it. If I go off of clonazapam, I get a monster migraine. This migraine will not go away until I go back it. The longest I have been off of it was 3 weeks...and I have a migraine for 3 weeks. It was HELL!!!!!

All in all, I just wanted to let you know that addictions to medications or otherwise, can sometime fool us into thinking that we aren't addicted.

Food for thought

[madisgram]

hey lets talk, benzos are physically addictive and it's recommended to speak with your doc if you want to wean off them. they have what is called a half-life in your body. a seizure can result if one abruptly stops taking them if you've been on them for more than 6 months.glad you're ok but do consider talking with your doc if you want to stop.

[sundog]

Thanks for this. This is why I'm too scared to take benzos on a regular basis. I wish they could come up with a non-addicting anti-anxiety med.....

[splitimage]

Yeah benzo's are really addictive, even if you take them exactly as prescribed and don't abuse them. And like Madisgram said, it's super important to taper off them with a Dr's supervision if you want to get off of them, as the withdrawal can be quite nasty up to and including seizures.

I'm on clonazapam and have been for about 3 years, but I make sure to take it exactly as prescribed. I'm fine physically if I miss a pill during the day - I'm supposed to take 1 mg 3 times daily, but I usually wind up forgetting the third pill & not needing it. I'd prefer to not be on it, but I need something for the anxiety.

I had a really bad experience coming off Ativan cold turkey a few years ago. I was taking around 8 mg a day and when I went into rehab for alcohol abuse, they wouldn't let me stay on it, and they wouldn't let me taper. I had horrible rebound anxiety. It was a disaster.

--splitimage

[Lucianus]

I've been on Clonazepam for over 9 years now. I found out only last year that my first doctor had screwed up big time by prescribing it to me, and the rest of them that followed continued to prescribe it in combo with other meds like Lamictal and such. Let me tell you that I never passed the 8 mg dose as needed, but my body craves at least the 2 mg a day it has gotten so used to, It's gotten to the point now that if I don't take it one hour after I wake up, I start to get shaky hands/knees and pains all over my body like a beat up dog. I can't even describe the sense of anxiety, shakiness, fear and almost terror and psychosis that I feel as well as physical pain which is a torture, but since I haven't been able to find another substitute, I am obliged to continue taking it. Someone told me to switch to betas, but that's not an option for now, not without proper medical care, which lacks where I live at the moment.

[madisgram]

lucianus, can you see your regular doc in the meantime re your situation? maybe he/she could give you a weaning schedule to get you off. it takes a while to be weaned off but that's better than the suffering you have now.

[Laurie1041]

The distinction between "dependency" and "addiction"

http://panicdisorder.about.com/od/tr...s/a/AddDep.htm

There are real and albeit, subtle differences behind "dependency" and "addiction". In a nutshell, many drugs cause dependency (think you can just stop taking your SSRI without getting the classic SSRI "withdrawal syndrome")? Would one say that they are "addicted" to their SSRI because every time they miss a dose they feel nauseated, feel dizzy, and/or have the dreaded "brain zaps"? I feel most would answer "no".

Benzodiazepines do cause dependency when taken for longer than 4 weeks. Signs of dependency include an adverse physical reaction when missing a dose or tapering down too quickly. Anyone who has experienced benzo withdrawal symptoms knows exactly what I am talking about. It's a horrible experience.

Addiction on the other hand is a psychological process which involves abuse and the continued abuse despite negative consequences. "Doctor shopping" to get more prescriptions and possibly buying the drug on the street. Life becomes centered around how much drug do I have left and how can I get more?

Benzos can be addictive particularly in those who abuse alcohol and/or other drugs. However, long term benzo use has been found to be safe and effective in those people who do not have a history of drug and/or alcohol abuse.

It is the physician's responsibility to inform his or her patient of the probability of "dependency" in long term benzo use and what this really means. ("If you stop taking your benzo cold turkey you will really feel like *****" - don't ever do that without consulting me). Hopefully, this discussion takes place before handing over the prescription so that the patient can really think it over. I never had this conversation when I first started on benzos, but I hold no grudges because benzos got me out of 24/7 panic mode.

I have been on 1 tab of clonazepam since 2000. I have been through withdrawals 1 time in 10 years (forgot to take my meds at bedtime). I still remember how awful that night was. When the times comes, it will be a really slow taper.

Laurie

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by sundog

Thanks for this. This is why I'm too scared to take benzos on a regular basis. I wish they could come up with a non-addicting anti-anxiety med.....

There are several: buspar, propranolol, imipramine, lexapro, paxil, zoloft, effexor, etc. The SSRIs listed and Effexor are anti-depressants but are prescribed for anxiety even when the patient is not depressed. They are considered frontline anti-anxiety drugs. Buspar and imiprimanine are considered second-line. Propranolol is good PRN, when you know an anxiety-producing situation is coming up that day.

[sundog]

Originally Posted by sunrise

There are several: buspar, propranolol, imipramine, lexapro, paxil, zoloft, effexor, etc. The SSRIs listed and Effexor are anti-depressants but are prescribed for anxiety even when the patient is not depressed. They are considered frontline anti-anxiety drugs. Buspar and imiprimanine are considered second-line. Propranolol is good PRN, when you know an anxiety-producing situation is coming up that day.

Thanks (((((sunsetsunrise))))))) Thanks for this! I take Zoloft, but it's not cutting it with my anxiety. I've tried all the other SSRIs and SNRIs, but I'm now thinking of trying them again. My pdoc seems to think that buspar is only effective for less than 25% of people with my type of Anxiety Disorder (though I haven't ruled out giving it a try). He did suggest the tricyclics also and he mentioned adding Seroquel, so at least there are other things to try.....Thank you!

[Lucianus]

Originally Posted by madisgram

lucianus, can you see your regular doc in the meantime re your situation? maybe he/she could give you a weaning schedule to get you off. it takes a while to be weaned off but that's better than the suffering you have now.

Problem is Madisgram that my doc is in Chicago, and I am currently in Albania, so I can't get proper care where I am now. Thanks anyways for the advice

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by sundog

My pdoc seems to think that buspar is only effective for less than 25% of people with my type of Anxiety Disorder (though I haven't ruled out giving it a try).

I had not heard anyone put a number on it, but I consider 25% to be pretty good odds, just as good as any one SSRI I would think. In fact, I am surprised it is as high as 25%. I have tried Buspar for day to day anxiety but did not find that it helped. I had the sort of anxiety you get when you are going through a really stressful time in your life. So this was a rather extended period of situational anxiety, rather than an intrinsic disorder. The Buspar, however, did help me with social anxiety, which I have always had, although not cripplingly so, and this was not the reason I took the drug. So it was an unexpected benefit, but I only stayed on the med a few months since it didn't really help with anxiety. (It did have a totally cool side effect though--greatly enhanced sense of smell and taste--so for that reason I am glad I experienced it!) I tried Xanax and found I am very sensitive to it. It puts me to sleep or makes me kind of zoned out. So it wasn't much use during the day, but I found it very useful at night if I was lying awake unable to sleep due to anxiety. Worked great--put me right to sleep! I didn't take it long enough or regularly enough to become addicted. I also got a prescription for propranolol to serve the same function as I had wanted the Xanax for--to take on the spot, such as immediately before a predictable, stressful situation. It worked quite well and did not make me sleepy or zoned-out. It is a drug I don't hear mentioned much (for anxiety), but I found it a benign Xanax substitute.

Good luck with your quest. Sounds like you and your pdoc are really trying hard.

[kriya6]

Originally Posted by Lets Talk

Hey Guys,

Most people know that benzodiazapines (like lorazapam, clonazapam, adivan) are addictive. I have been on clonazapam since 2005. I don't feel addicted to it, I don't crave it, I could drop it today...but...my body is addicted to it. If I go off of clonazapam, I get a monster migraine. This migraine will not go away until I go back it. The longest I have been off of it was 3 weeks...and I have a migraine for 3 weeks. It was HELL!!!!!

All in all, I just wanted to let you know that addictions to medications or otherwise, can sometime fool us into thinking that we aren't addicted.

Food for thought

I think there is a difference between "addiction" and the dependence that comes with many psych meds. For example, most antidepressants will have withdrawal symptoms if you suddenly stop taking them, which I believe indicates "dependence," but we aren't going to go rob someone to get another prozac, which would be indicative of "addiction." WIth benzo's though, it's tricky, because they can lead to either situation.
Brandi

[trixielou]

ive been on klonopin for 4 years now. its the only thing thats ever worked 4 my anxiety. the older i got it seems the more agitated my nervous system got even to where i went into a seizure. 3 mg a day keeps me smoothed out but i also exercise 5-7 miles a day. i take 200mg zoloft a day & have lived with the chemical imbalance for so long i can tell which one is depleted serotonin or gaba acid. i have a history of addiction to alcohol & drugs & have even lost control with my klons before also & i thought i would die going thru those withdrawals. my docs & t were like we want u to get to where u can take this responsibly cuz they knew it worked well 4 me i just had to take it the way im supposed to. with Gods strength i take them the way im supposed to well i cant lie this month is the first time ive taken too many in quite awhile to where i have 2 a day to my refill. dont beat myself up just get back on track. my doc also tests me for drugs & klon levels in my system. im just so thankful i have docs that didnt just give up on me. like one time i was in rehab & this lady said she got addicted to oc's really bad & weaned herself off. she had seizures so they put her on 3mg klon a day so if a person has a history of addiction it doesnt really mean u cant be responsible with a controlled substance but i know docs spaz over the liability which i can totally understand. but yeah if u wanna go off benzos u gotta do a slow taper schedule small cuts over a long time period.

[Leed]

Thanks Laurie for pointing out that there's a difference between physical dependency and addiction! When you're physically dependent, like MOST of us are, you don't crave the drug ~ you aren't the kind that would do almost ANYTHING to get the drug. An addict would sell his own mother into slavery to get his drug of choice!! An addict CRAVES the drug and can think of nothing but getting his next fix.

It's true that we suffer withdrawals like an addict, but that's just because our body is used to the medication and it doesn't want to give it up. So we must wean off.

I highly resent when someone infers that I'm an addict. I'm not. thanks

[thunderbear]

I do not want xanax ever again if I can help it. My old doc had me on .5mg pills 3x a day fot a yer and a half. Right before I quit them (and him) I asked about a lowdose valium cause they don't make you as icky. But he said with my severe anxiety xnax was best. He was right at the time. But I was sick of feeling like that, so when my sript run out, I just quit. BIG MISTAKE.... I lay on the couch for 3-4 das straight sick as hell, mild hallucinations, depression worse anxiety all that. It was awful. I have'nt had a xanax since and that was 2 ys ago

[trixielou]

im so discouraged i take 3mg klonopin a day & have managed to take too many & now i have 2 a day til doc appt on jan 5. i just pray this sudden cut wont throw me into bad withdrawal does anyone have any advice well besides the fact i know this was stupid as when winter sets in it seems like i always do this i mean advice on sudden cut down to 2 a day

[Ygrec23]

If you want to leave benzos behind, this is the world-authority how-to book by the world-authority author (Professor C. Heather Ashton, MD, FRCP): http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

Take care!

[trixielou]

ive seen this site be4 thanks for puttin in your thread cuz i couldnt remember exactly how to type it in the clonazepam is the only thing that ever worked for seizures dunno how i would react if i went off them

[Petunia111]

I take two 0.5 of Klonopin and I am surely addicted to it. I get the heebie-jeebies if I don't take it. It is a low dose, yet I am stilll addicted, as sure as anything.

[Mustkeepjob32]

I don't know if this has been said already but I want to clarify that there is a big difference between being "dependent" and being "addicted" to meds. When you guys are saying you are "addicted" to a benzo, you mean "dependent."

[Overcomer37]

Ygrec has it right! Dr. Heather Ashton KNOWS benzos and KNOWS how to get ppl off them, SAFELY.

I am an expert (ok, self-proclaimed, but what other type is there??) on safely withdrawing off benzos.

Rule of thumb is this: Cut back .125 mg every 2 weeks. Yes, that is half of a half of a mg.

There is a very, very good method of tapering known as the "water titration method." I did this and successfully tapered off 7 years of 1-2 mg of Klonopin a day, in ? month's time ( cant recall how many months but the withdrawal was slow and easy; no massive and horrible/nightmare symptoms).

Look up "water titration" and any of the benzo names. I know theres at least one good site that provides charts and methods on how to do this.... its NOT that hard! You grind the pill, mix it with water, and then each day withdraw less and less water/pill mixture and ingest. In time, u get completely off the benzo!!! No horror, no ER visits... no HELL.

Pls PM me or write on here for more info. I just hate seeing ppl suffer so badly and struggling with this. I, too, was a physically dependant benzo user versus psych dependant. I went back on Klonopin in 2005, after being totally off for 2 years (after a horrific family tragedy/death). Im still on it, but at least I know how to get off SAFELY now.

I HATE rehabs, they know nothing about benzos and just yank ppl off them recklessly, causing in some cases, irreparable harm and damage to a person!! It is truly disgusting and the ignorance on the part of 'doctors', just astounding.... it is truly, truly astounding.... and beyond sick.

U can get well!

[SlatkaMala]

Yeah benzos and opiates are physically addictive big time because your body becomes dependent on them. Weaning is the best way to go on that.

I became both physically and emotionally dependent on benzos. Getting off of them wasn't fun. I had to have medical intervention for that.

I hope you find relief for that soon because that's no fun.

[Gus1234U]

i used acupuncture to stop smoking, it was very successful and easy, and it had the side effect of diminishing my phobias and ocds as well,, i don't know how it might work with other addictions,, but it could be worth a try~~ best wishes to you all~~ Gus

[eskielover]

It was interesting because I was on valium for years when I first started having my anxiety problems in 1994.....& then I ended up OD'ing on them also several times. Strangely, I decided one day that I wasn't going to take them anymore & just stopped & had absolutely no effects from stopping like people said would happen. I think that maybe because I was on the pain medication for the horrible migraines I was having in the first place might have helped me not have any reaction to going off the valium.

The technical terminology that is used is that we become dependent on the medication....it's only considered to be an addiction if there is a continual need for a higher & higher dose of the medication. The fact that one goes through withdrawal when they do off a medication is because of the bodies dependence on the drug, not being addicted to it. My pain specialist is the one who has provided the definition that is used in the medical field for how the body reacts to the drugs.

[snapdragon928]

I only take .5mg twice a day but have been thinking of calling the doctor to up it or increase the doses. Wanting more because I want more or more anxiuos I don't know. Just been on klonopin a couple of weeks, and I keep forgetting the morning dose.