He Can't Stop Talking

I had another thread here about my little brother Don. (Little! He's 57.) But there's another aspect of him that confuses me and that I'd like your help on exploring.

Yes, he is/was an alcoholic (if I understand correctly that won't ever change). And yes he has stopped drinking and goes to AA almost every day. But he has another characteristic, or rather he has always had another characteristic that I've never, ever met up with in any other person. Maybe that's because he's my brother and I have greater exposure to him. Maybe not. I haven't seen such a person portrayed in the movies or on TV. Haven't read about such a person. Certainly haven't met up with one IRL. It's like this:

He can't stop talking. I'm sure you'll laugh and think of all the people, male and female, you know who just love to run their mouths all the time. Of course! There are LOTS of people who like to go on and on and on! Some of them even run for president!!

But they're none of them a patch on my brother Don. I used to think it was the alcohol, since he always at all times had at the very least a can of beer in his hand. But now he's stopped that, as you know, and doesn't drink any more. But it's incredible. It hasn't stopped his motormouth or even slowed it down. What does this mean?

If you're with Don in a group of people then other people get to talk, but if things slow down or there's a silence, then it's Don again jumping right in there to fill the gap. But if you're with Don just one on one, he'll never even stop for breath. Won't ask you what you think. Won't pause and think himself. Won't listen to the music of the spheres and stars for a minute or two. No. He fills every second of silence with his own mouthmusic as if any silence was fatal to him. He can't stand silence. He can't stand silence more than any other human being I've ever run across or read about.

What does this mean? What's wrong with him? I sat on the porch with him in the evenings and he just went on and on. It's nothing new, but it's still really strange. I couldn't get a word in edgewise. Not that I particularly wanted to. What he says is quite interesting, whatever he's talking about. And IRL I much prefer to listen than to talk. But he's just so compulsive about it! He talks as if being quiet was death, as if he'd cease to exist. In a sense, it's horrifying. "Talk or die" seems to be his motto. Know anyone like that?

Any comments much appreciated!

My brother, who is/was also an alcoholic, is similar to what you describe. I never ascribed it to the alcohol. He is quite charming, has excellent story-telling skills, etc. but if other people are talking there's something missing in his attention until he can move it back to him.

I think it is anxiety of a sort, fear of loss of control? It's hard to pay attention to others, let them have opinions and stories that we don't know, have no control over? It's a verbal fear-of-the-dark where one uses the sound of a known voice, one's own, instead of light to soothe.

As I read what you wrote Ygrec, the idea of anxiety popped up in my head like Perna has already suggested.

Perhaps it is the silent gap that means some thing to your brother in some way... so then he has to keep talking

Maybe it is something with the fact that he is still here on earth and so why not keep the conversation going

IDK-- but it is good I would think he does talk so, un like on the other side of not talking right

I have a friend like that - she's gotten a bit better over the years I've known her to the point now that I can make an extended statement without being interrupted, but honestly this woman doesn't know how to shut up. She's also alcoholic as am I. I love her to bits, but she's a real motormouth. I think it's anxiety too.

I have the opposite problem. I have a real problem with talking - too shy. I'm ok around people I know really well, but in a party or with people I don't know well, I really have to force myself to talk.

splitimage

Yes, Ygrec, I know someone exactly like that. She can't stop talking either!

We've been friends for about 20 years. Putting all of her speaking to me together, live-in-person + phone, I'd say she has talked non-stop through at least one of those years. And we're not even close to being best friends. She is not, BTW, a drinker--much less an alcoholic.

According to her children & life-long friends, she has always been this way. At parties she usually holds the focus of 8-10 people at a time. Done with one group, she moves on to another. Now that she's 95, when possible, she loves events giving her the opportunity to sit in one place & have people come one by one to sit & visit for awhile--which turns out to be about 90% her. Yet oddly, talking as much as she does, she manages to pull out a lot of information from the people passing through. She's a crackerjack interviewer.

When she & her husband (she's on her fifth--no, none divorced her), when they had to go into assisted living, she nearly got herself on the "get rid of" list the first month. Workers from every department complained that she would manage somehow to get them inside her apartment--then start talking & keep talking & they'd be unable to get on with their work. I had to go in & train them in the fine art of 1. Telling her you had to leave, then 2. Backing out the door while she continued to talk. I promised them she would not take offense. She never did. In fact she's never mentioned people walking out on her, & I've held these "trainings" in all the places they've lived.

People get caught up by her quite easily because she's lived & worked all over the world & has absorbed the culture & more endearing aspects of the people she's lived among. She tells great stories & tells them so well. She's smart, educated, & funny. It's really not until your hand cramps around the phone, or your legs in the chair, that you realize you've not said a single word for the past hour and she's in Egypt somewhere and you have this feeling that you're going to be late for your next appointment.

I didn't know there was anyone else like her. If there's a name for this condition, I haven't any idea what it might be. Please advise should you discover one.

i can identify with don somewhat. my son says to me, MOM, MOM, come up for air!! it's so funny and TRUE! having heard this amusing comment i've worked on the fine art of listening. often i need to resist the urge to yap yap. it really helps me focus on calmly enjoying a conversation. i do think it's a form of anxiety for me. like if someone is not talking the silence is deafening.
perhaps ygrec you can discuss this with him in a way that is non-accusatory. i am so grateful my son told me tho my friends did seem to thoroughly enjoy my yap yap, life of the party. but moderation for me must be observed.
hummmm...hope my comments here are not too wordy..

I think it is caused by anxiety, To these people silence is not golden. I am guilty of it myself, I have to have at least have back ground noise T.V. stereo etc. I do get tired of my own voice though!

It could either be anxiety, need for attention, arrogance among other things. How would you describe his personality - is he the nervous type or over confident? Is it possible he had adult ADHD? Have you ever told him nicely how he dominates every conversation and how its aggravating?

Well Ygrec,

There's much to be said for a person in recovery who talks. However, the compulsiveness of your brother's 'motormouth' seems to be the challenge here.

Perhaps you'll find clues in the content of his babble? Are his comments relevant to the immediate subject? Many people talk, but do not communicate. What is your brother trying to say?

On the lighter side, perhaps you might invest in a small MP3 music player, plug them in your ears, and tune him off?

I don't think it's arrogance, lynn. It's too, umm, frenetic for that, too desperate. Listen to him long enough and you do get the impression that, for him, if he stops talking, something dreadful will happen. I have no idea what, but something terrible. I don't think he's either nervous or over-confident. If you asked me what I really, really thought, way down deep, I'd have to say that he's dealing (at some subterranean level) with the results of being his mother's son, just as I am in my own way. Having her as a mom when you're tiny created this deep, deep reservoir of pure plutonium pain far, far down from the surface. He drank. Brother Pete shot up. I lived in la-la land. Gil got a full, old-fashioned psychoanalysis. It all fits. Take care!

Well, mtnview,

I have no personal reason to stop his talk. He's a very good talker. He told us an incredible amount about the history, organization, spirit, and everything else related to AA, which was very interesting indeed. He does know how to capture his listeners. No. The only reason I'd think about trying to stop the flow is because after a while I feel the pain in his talking and want to help him stop the pain, the desperation, the fear, or whatever it is.

If he were a happy man just talking cause he loves to talk that would be fine. But he's not and I'm his elder brother and I love him (always have) and don't want him to suffer pain. Unfortunately, he has always resisted having anything at all to do with therapy. I have no reason to believe he's changed his mind. And if anyone could do with some therapy, it's him. Take care!

Thanks for the reply Ygrec. Have you tried to nicely ask him why he feels this need to talk incessantly? Sometimes people don't realize how they appear to others. If he knows it might be annoying, then perhaps he'll tone it down.

Well, lynn, no, I haven't. Since I know he refuses to try therapy I'm a little leery of somehow unbalancing his structure. If he needs to talk like this in order to survive every day I'd prefer he do that than a lot of other things. He doesn't generally give me the impression of a fragile person, but he does when he's powertalking. And he's done this since he was four or five years old.

We all thought he was the most brilliant kid around, because he talked a lot and talked extremely well for a six-year old. When he wasn't sucking his thumb while holding his blanket. And he may have internalized that respect and acceptance to the extent of doing anything he can to keep it coming. No, I don't think I'm going to call him on it. He's a very bright man, and so long as he's not drinking I would kind of bet that at some point he'll see or sense what he's doing and investigate. At least I hope so. Take care.

Ygrec23, my husband does that, and his T thinks it's part of his ADHD. My T says he thinks it's partly anxiety, based on his one meeting with my husband. My husband and I have discussed it, and he working on it, but he still sucks at letting me talk without interrupting. I have suggested to him that it's possible to THINK something without saying it, but he says it's almost like the two are simultaneous, or that he MUST say something in order to think it. Doesn't make sense to me, but . . .

ygec if it's any comfort AA and going thru the steps may help him. if he's feeling pain and desperation as you mentioned it will probably be addressed thru this process. i thanked my T who specialized in addictions for all his help re my drinking and problems of self worth/feelings, etc. he told me that AA had done more for me in those areas than he. AA can be the best free therapy in the world, imo.

My sister-in-law's sister-in-law is like that, and my best friend's little brother is the same way. I'd say they both have pretty horrendous anxiety. The sister-in-law hasn't let anyone inside her house for years, and the little brother can't hold a job and has been on disability most of his adult life.

I would say I USED to be like that, so much so that when I run into people that I used to work with, they slowly back away from me, talking the whole time! But I now see that my neighbors are no longer cringing when they ride the elevator with me, so I know my efforts at cooling my jets have paid off. I would vote for anxiety on this one, coupled with OCD. I know that as long as I was talking, mother figured she was "parenting", as she could sit there and pretend she was listening to me, but as she later laughed to husband#1, all she did was say, yes yes, whenever I asked her, "remember I mentioned him yesterday?" and I would be satisfied and continue with my little stories, but she said, who could listen to all that childish carp day after day? So I think it also comes from not having been acknowledged at a very young age, not even at the time of the school stories, but probably much earlier. So i've been in therapy all my life, but really only the last 2 years "count", as it's now I have followed dr's recommendations and stayed away from family for the duration, while we work on stabilizing me. Thanks for this reminder, BTW!

I think you're entirely right, madisgram. From what Don has told me about AA it's a really, really impressive program. A lot more direct, in a way, than therapy. Never in his life has he (to me, at least) given any impression of pain or desperation. And I consider myself an expert in sniffing those things out. But there has to have been a deep reason for his being an alcoholic for most of his life. So at the bottom of it all there may well be a lot of pain and desperation. He's just been avoiding it all his life. Repressing it. What have you. But there's no doubt he's getting a lot of help from AA not just as regards alcohol but also regarding internal peace and calm. Take care, and thanks!

Thanks, hankster, I really think you're on to it. What you said above that I emphasized ties it in with what I and our other brothers all suffered from: Mom dissociating while raising all her babies (and throughout her life to her dying day). Don = booze. Pete = drugs. Me = dissociation and complete withdrawal. Gil = full psychoanalysis. Brrrrr.

Take care!

Thank you, Half. I agree with you. I had previously thought that no one could be terribly anxious without it being in some way sensed by others who themselves were highly familiar with anxiety. And I guess I could well have been wrong. It must have been something really powerful to force Don to be an alcoholic for forty years and continually refuse going into therapy. But the supertalking is (so far as I've seen) the only behavior that seemed associated with anxiety. Otherwise he has always been in full control of himself. Hmmm. Interesting. Take care!