When I first got to AA, I was sick! sick mentally and physically. There really wasn't option for me at that point as AA seems to have a monopoly on "alcohol recovery". I believed what I was told in AA, that I was powerless and my life was doomed forever unless I kept going to meetings and got a sponser and completed the steps.

Every time I went to question the 12steps I was told that I was going into denial. That I needed to shut up and sit down and put take the cotton wool out of my ears.

I see people being "used" by sponsers, I saw very unwell people sponsering other vunrable people. I saw people that "needed" to believe that they were at last safe, they weren't!

ANy personal growth was stamped out! infact one cannot evolve within the atmosphere of AA, one had to twist who they really were to become who they were expected to be! It got in the end that I couldnt trust my own judgements!

Until the day I dared to "escape", I can say my personal growth really took of from that day. People think they are being helped but are being "used" by egocentrics! Its so sad to see this happening!

But people are sober I hear! at what cost? All one needs to do is not pick up a drink and find out their true path, this is sadly not possible within the clutches of AA.

[biplol]

Mouse, as I think you know, I have my own reservations about AA. For one thing I don't believe we are "alcoholics" from the moment we were born and we will always be.
I'm living proof that that is a big wrong statement.
I think that until you are willing to grow up and leave the hiding behind of a bottle on a side, you are going to fall back to the same habits.
I was drinking everyday of the week, back when I was 16. I was going to school drunk and coming back home the same way. I can be a pretty good actress, it seems, because none of the grown up around me took me seriously. And if it wasn't because I hit my 20 and I saw how bad things were going, I'd be still drinking like that or maybe dead by now.
I changed inside; I wanted to take charge and stop being stupid.
I hadn't had a drink until last year, I'm 33 now. And now I feel I can enjoy a nice glass of wine when with friends. I wont’ let anything take that away from me. I’m not getting drunk and I’m being mature. Do I have tendencies? Yes, my whole family is full of alcoholics. Am I going to let the alcohol take control in my life again? No way. I won’t ever again let the alcohol define who I am.
I hope I’m of any help.
Take care~

[razeljenny]

Mouse, you are entitled to what you believe, but maybe you are only seeing some of it , I understand that you are pretty upset and it might actually be completley true, what you shared and I really feel for you with my heart big time.
Maybe you've just been exposed to a really bad bad meeting. I am not saying that all meetings are rotten, but that is basically what I think you said here, Man I know how bad it hurts to be in one and leave feeling stepped on and character assignated. So true, some of the meeting halls here in W.W. are egocentered rooms of idiots sometimes, But not all the time. I looked and looked and looked and looked in the "printed directory that they publish in this area district of mine , found a great loving, caring , small group. That group I made into "my home group" and thank the higher power. I did get a real sponsor, I really read and re-read and re-read the "Twelve by Twelve," myself, sometimes some days, I get a really different message and I "grow" in the twelve step program. "It works, it really does work."

I. M. me if you want to vent. We can think together about this and I can help ya if you want unsolicited advice. Please accept my apoligies if I was bruske or big mounthed

[undertheradar]

Hi Mouse,

I definitely hear your reservations about AA. The beauty of AA is that you can choose your environment. When I first came in 1990, I was incapable of making too many decisions, let alone the decision to turn my life and will over to a higher power that I did not understand. Nowhere in the Big Book does it say that you cannot seek other avenues of growth, just not too many people do. Heck, I have been in and out of therapy, spiritual groups, etc. and I would not be here today if I only used AA as my sole way of staying clean. If there is any doubt that you are alcoholic, go and drink and drug somemore until you are convinced one way or the other, I did. My last O.D. in 1989 convinced me. People in AA tend to put people with long term sobriety up on pedestals where they do not belong. I have been sober since Jan. 2, 1990 and that time does not mean too much to me. Whoever gets up first in the morning has the most amount of sobriety. I can only stay sober until midnight tonight, and that is it. So, I have stayed sober only 1 day at a time, really. Please try not to listen too much to opinionated AA'ers. What kept me sober was going to 90 meetings in 90 days (of course visit different ones and find some you actually like!), getting a sponsor and using that sponsor to go through the steps IN ORDER!!, and reading the Big Book, meditation books, etc., and I went to therapy with a LCDC (licensed chemical dependency counselor. I hope you find what you are looking for, in or out of AA. PM me anytime.

MK

[shadowalker164]

It seems to me that AA is a spiritual kindergarten. One learns a great deal about how to live well with others, then goes and does so.

I have a wife that I love very much, and spend almost every free hour with her. I have wonderful kids who I delight in watching grow up, and I and my wife spend our free time with our family.

I have a career that I enjoy, and it pays the bills, I have hobbies I enjoy, and friends whom I share happy hours. (not happy hour) I think I have a pretty full and rewarding life.

And I chair an AA meeting every Wednesday at lunchtime. I also take my sponsor to a detox each Tuesday evening. He is old and can’t see so good anymore, and I drive him. He is more like an old friend than a sponsor.

I have learned to live well with others, and I am doing so. A full life with sobriety as a priority. Others can drink safely, and enjoy it, good for them. I don’t think I can do that. At any rate, for the sake of my family, and my own sanity, I don’t wish to find out.

Mouse, try not to be so angry. It spoils too much.