[ComfortablyNumb5]

I’ll tell you my answer right now... it’s a illness. Studies show that it ruins the stability in our brain chemicals therefor our cravings are INTENSE and very hard to overcome.

The reason I bring this up is because a friend on fb made this post saying “addicts are weak and they make the choice to be addicts! Man up and quit!” Followed by some rant about how we’re lazy and we don’t want help.

So how do you feel about addiction? I know at times I felt powerless in my fix.I was suicidal from the emotional pain and the physical pain from WD.

[JessLynn]

I don't have a clear answer for this but I am interested to see what others have to say. I think the first time you use a substance it is a choice. That being said, the feelings that lead up to it are often just symptoms of psychological distress. Addictions are diseases but, like all mental illnesses, can be worked on and managed.

[UpDownAround]

I would describe it as a predisposition; substantially more likely to be tempted and to give in to said temptation than most. I have it pretty bad and I do think there is something that drives me towards drinking and drugs that isn't just a character flaw. I do think having the predisposition is a disorder. Some people who don't have it think it is just an excuse and that it would be just as easy for us to resist as it is for them so they say stupid things.

[emgreen]

While I abused many substances back in the day, alcohol was always my drug of choice (easy to get & socially acceptable - in moderation, that is. ). My family tree is full of alcoholics, which makes me think that, in my case, it's an illness/disease. There's a pretty sound theory that suggests alcoholics' livers metabolize alcohol differently than those of normal drinkers. Thus, IMO, heredity has a lot to do with my disease of alcoholism. That said, UpDownAround's contention that it's a predisposition probably holds true for many people, too.

[greentires4me]

Well I guess I would have to say it's a little bit of both when I was a kid like in elementary school grade 3-6 we all did inhalants, then it went on to grade 6 was my first drink given to me by my dad it was a B52 then I tried E at grade 7...and cigs at that grade to I never took into doing that, the cigs! Then one day in grade 8 my friends asked if my dad would be our boot. Then that's when the partying started...from 13-31 I drank! But in my early 20s I drank every dollar I made except my rent was direct deposited right to the landlord...thank goodness! I made a substantial amount of money that I wasted on booze! Then I got a second job and that went into my banking account and never touched it would go to the bank and withdraw my money for the 2 weeks buy food and supplies!

Tried my first bong hoot of Mary Jane at 20...then shrooms around that same time bad experience never touching that stuff again.

Some gave me laced pot with speed I tell ya never doing that again.

I must of had a choice in the matter or why else would I have done it? But maybe on the other hand to be in the in crowd and my dad making me start my drinking early in life that maybe I wouldn't have so many health problems now!

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by ComfortablyNumb5

...a friend on fb made this post saying “addicts are weak and they make the choice to be addicts! Man up and quit!” Followed by some rant about how we’re lazy and we don’t want help.

... I know at times I felt powerless...suicidal from the emotional pain and the physical pain from WD.

Many of us have made choices that have led to or resulted in addiction (drugs) or allergic reaction (alcohol), but I have never heard anyone say s/he had ever chosen to be addicted. In my own case, I first turned to alcohol for relief from the emotional pain you have mentioned, then ultimately discovered I had some abnormal body chemistry that made controlled drinking impossible. None of that was indicative of any kind of illness, however, since it is quite natural and even instinctual for human beings to seek relief (even to the point of obsession) from any kind of pain.

[emgreen]

Originally Posted by leejosepho

...it is quite natural and even instinctual for human beings to seek relief (even to the point of obsession) from any kind of pain.

This is an important point, as well. Nature & nurture intertwine. Thanks for the reminder.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by emgreen

This is an important point, as well. Nature & nurture intertwine. Thanks for the reminder.

All of that is why I consider chronic alcoholism or drug abuse more of a dilemma than an actual illness. The dilemma is that we need *something* to address the emotional troubles, but then the *wrong* something will turn back and bite us.

[emgreen]

Originally Posted by leejosepho

All of that is why I consider chronic alcoholism or drug abuse more of a dilemma than an actual illness. The dilemma is that we need *something* to address the emotional troubles, but then the *wrong* something will turn back and bite us.

Just to clarify, do you also consider alcoholism to be a metabolic problem/disease? Face it, we (in general) can drink a lot more than "normies." I'm as big a drunk as my grandfathers & other relatives were - I see a huge hereditary component in my case. Same pattern of abuse. I understand your point, though.

[ComfortablyNumb5]

I do think that when we first try a substance, that we are making a choice. But once it turns into an addiction then it has became a disease. I obviously don’t think anyone makes a choice thinking “hey I’m going to keep drinking until I become hooked!” I think many of us probably started out as recreational users and had no idea how easily the addiction can catch up with you. It happens “gradually, and then suddenly.”

[splitimage]

I fully support the disease model. In my rehab we watched a film about addiction that said it was a 3 factoral model, biological, enviornmental, and access to substance. And on the first 2 you could score low, med, or high. The combination of those two determined how much substance you would need before crossing the line into addiction.

In my case I have a high genetic risk, alcoholism runs rampant through my family, and a high environmental risk. Alcohol was freely available to me in my home, and my father modeled a work hard, party hard lifestyle so I grew up thinking that heavy drinking was normal and how you handled bad stuff, and I had plenty of bad stuff growing up. So it took relatively little time, and exposure before my drinking was problematic. If I had had a different drug available to me, I suspect I could have become addicted to that instead.

Plus there are all sorts of studies now showing that there are brain differences between alcoholics and non alcoholics. We are more impulsive and different brain areas get stimulated when we see visual cues for alcohol.

So yeah I am on the disease side of things, but where I have the choice is in managing the disease. I can either choose to pick up or not, but once I have picked up all bets are off.

splitimage

[notz]

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by emgreen

Just to clarify, do you also consider alcoholism to be a metabolic problem/disease? Face it, we (in general) can drink a lot more than "normies."

I do not know why some of us have a higher tolerance for more alcohol while still remaining relatively functional, but yes, "The doctor's theory that we have an allergy to alcohol [making controlled drinking impossible after we begin drinking]...makes good sense...explains many things for which we cannot otherwise account." ("A.A.", 1939)

Interestingly, however, A.A. *never* declares any part of alcoholism as any kind of actual disease -- no opinion on outside issues -- and no such designation is ever needed by anyone other than for psychological, philosophical or financial reasons.

[GoDewBee]

I think for myself it is the symptom of a mental illness. Alcohol, pot, opioids, Xanax, provide some relief from overwhelming feelings of inadequacy, loneliness and despair. So, it is not a free choice, but still it is a choice, to choose relief from pain & distress. I’m managing my addiction at the present time. Therapy has helped reveal to myself the early childhood trauma that I suffered. I have expressed my anger, shame, helplessness... mainly anger, toward my father & mother, which has given me an intellectual awareness of why I choose to self-medicate. The pain persists, and the medications work well enough to keep using them. Shoot, I’m closing in on 70yo, and if I was psychologically healthy my life would be very satisfying, even fulfilling. I’m struggling, but I deepdown inside inside Ihave hope. Comfortably numb feels ok for me. GDB

[leejosepho]

“When I was learning about what constituted a diseased liver,” he said, “one of the most important pieces of knowledge I had was what a healthy liver looks like to serve as a comparison. Yet, in mental health and psychiatry, basically what you have are descriptors of dysfunction but no real comparison or reference models of what constitutes psychological health. Instead, there is a just a vague claim that the current presentation must not be ‘normal’.”

... The World Health Organization explicitly defines mental health as “a state of well-being in which [an] individual realizes his or her own potential, can cope with the normal stresses of life, can work productively and fruitfully, and is able to make a contribution to her or his community.”

...mental health can be thought of in terms of mental satisfaction/happiness and optimal functioning.

What Constitutes Psychological Health?

A.A. never needed "the disease model" because doctors were not being asked to bring about "mental satisfaction/happiness and optimal functioning".

[rjdb]

Addiction is an illness but your behavior is a choice. F that makes sense.

[All Is Revealed]

Originally Posted by rjdb

Addiction is an illness but your behavior is a choice. F that makes sense.

This is a tough one. I've had 6 addictions in my life: Weed, Sex, Games, Alcohol, Gambling, and the Gym.

They started out as behaviors that made me happy. Then I continued to do them repetitively until I was exhausted. The behavior continued because mentally I felt awesome. The illness began when my brain couldn't live without these addictions. I would end up having anxiety attacks unless I performed the act.

[Tashu]

Hi!

Based on my personal experience with addiction, I’d call it an illness. I started drinking heavily after my father’s death in 1992. We had an extra-ordinary bonding. Within 2 years, I was unable to control my drinking and at that stage, I considered myself ‘addicted’.

I tried all the available help including joining AA ( Despite being an atheist). Anyway, I could rein it in with a lot of struggle. It took about 4 years.

However, I had to always put an effort to control my drinking all my life, till last year. I always had to fight the temptation. So, basically I gave credit to my strong will power for my control. But things changed completely last year when I started depression medications after a mental breakdown in early 2016.

My depression treatment was started in July 2016 which was very successful. I was prescribed Lexapro, Wellbutrin and Strattera. The treatment had a very positive effect on my mental health.

But, there was one very surprising effect --- my drinking temptation completely disappeared. I no more had to struggle to refrain. Now, I simply do not have any urge whatsoever.

I analysed this wonderful side-effect of depression medication and I came to a hypothetical conclusion that my drinking addiction was caused by some neurotransmitter imbalance in my mind. Once the depression medication fixed this imbalance, the addiction was gone.

I think it was dopamine imbalance that was responsible for my addictive behavior. Wellbutrin supposedly fixes dopamine imbalance, that I actually took for my depression and got this wonderful bonus result!

Unfortunately, psychiatry and neurology haven’t made as much progress as the other fields of medical sciences and we still have to depend upon assumption, hypothesis and ‘hit & trial’ methods to cure any issues related to our mind and behaviour.

Cheers!
Tashu

[UpDownAround]

I think wellbutrin is helping me. I quit drinking before I started wellbutrin and really haven't had much trouble with urges but there have been none since I have been at a reasonable dose of wellbutrin. Also I have been losing weight partly die to appetite suppression and partly due to not having binged on anything or even had the urge to. I did want to lose weight also. A substantial portion of my extra weight came from binges; I mostly eat decent meals. I have heard that wellbutrin helps smokers quit also; someone in the BP forum mentioned not wanting to take it because she wasn't ready to quit smoking yet.
I agree that having medicine that seems to help or cure addictive behavior makes a pretty good case for it being an illness.

[bizi]

This makes a lot of sense!
bizi

[Silent Blatherskite]

(Sorry for the long post, I tend to ramble when I write )

From what I remember now that I'm struggling with it more: compulsory* addictions are more of a symptom of a deeper problem rather than an illness themselves. It's definitely not a choice as it becomes so habitual that you might not even realize you're doing it. Usually the core problem stems from a deep seated depression, isolation, or a lack of needs being met. Once you start to meet those needs, in my own experience, the addictive behavior diminishes over time. This also explains why such addictions or maladaptive behaviors come and go, depending on if your needs are being met.

This view also takes away the negative bias we have towards addictions and lets us focus on the underlining issues. Much like having a fever, you don’t get angry with someone when they are too hot, you look to the underlying virus which the body is trying to cope with. To keep with this narrative, if the person is way too hot, you may need to help cool them down, similar to going ‘cold turkey.’ But, unless the underlying issue is resolved, going cold turkey alone, much like just trying to keep a sick person cooler, won’t do anything.

On the more extreme end, maybe the body is getting too hot due to an issue that isn’t there, much like an autoimmune disorder. Again, this is just your body trying a solution that appeared to work in the past. In some regard, these maladaptive behaviors do meet that need, otherwise you wouldn’t do it. But again, they are still maladaptive, and usually further interfere with your ability to meet these needs properly. So, with reoccurring addictions, your mind is just trying a method it believes helps with the situation (or worse, maybe it actually did resolve the situation in the past, like winning when gambling to pay off a debt, further re-enforcing the cognitive bias. Those suck). It's up to everyone to ask how can I best meet my needs?

So no, there isn't a way to "Man up and quit." What may have happened during these events were people 'miraculously' got over their compulsory addiction is when that core problem was finally addressed and solved. But, instead of saying that a long series of small good events, choices, environments, and support groups is what actually helped; we just say "I pulled myself up from my bootstraps,' because it sounds great to think that we were able to solve our own problems without anyone else... . Inner Strength and Self-reliance are big ideals for our culture and do be fair, it can be extremely difficult to see the effect of millions of tiny insignificant events. It's much easier to point at one instance where we said we were going to fix ourselves and have it actually happen. Even though we easily forget the thousands of other times we say we will, but nothing happens.

TL;DR: Cognitive Bias is extremely powerful. If you say you’re going to do something and it happens, your brain will point to when you said you will do it and believe that is the exact reason why it happened. Otherwise, you’re more likely to forget you said anything at all.

*Drug additions are much different as they can be easily shown to create actual addiction pathways in the brain similar to an illness. (Unless of course those 'findings' are in fact scare tactics to push an agenda rather than any real scientific research. Either way: choice is removed and always remember to keep moderation in everything.)

[UpDownAround]

Here is an interesting twist on this question - do you think anyone has character flaws on purpose?