[DocJohn]

Welcome to a safe place to talk about antisocial personality disorder:

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx7.htm

Enjoy,
DocJohn

[GrayNess]

Hmm, slightly unactive area... . who here has, may have or has experience with people with APD?

[Michah]

Originally Posted by GrayNess

Hmm, slightly unactive area... . who here has, may have or has experience with people with APD?

Haven't been dx with APD........but you know me Grayness, I am plenty anti-social!!!!

[GrayNess]

Haha, well, I'm waiting for the test results. Meh, might as well say I'm possibly APD and possibly NPD.

[blacksheep XX]

Well, I couldn't figure out how to start a new thread, so I'll reply to your Welcome Message by saying thanks, Doc!

I'm pretty certain I have a APD issue. I also have a bad case of treatment resistant depression from which I've suffered for 25 years. I've had unsuccessful ECT treatments and many drug trials. I have an unresolved sleep disorder as well. However; I write to you, here today about my problem with shoplifting. It's been going on for about a year and half and progressing. It's become a hobby. I'm a female, 44 yrs. old and every time I go into a store, I want to "get away with some thing." I feel childish and know I should be ashamed, but I love getting away with something for nothing, and with the economy so poor and us cutting back on our budget so severely, I always rationalize "buy one- take one."

I have a great therapist, but I don't want to share this with her. We have enough stuff that we are working on currently (unresolved family issues, cognitive & dialectical behavioral therapy, etc.) I fear that she will think less of me, too. It's such a stupid problem-- I can't believe that I can't figure out why I'm doing it, myself and why I can't just stop. I certainly know the unhappy end to this is getting caught, humiliated, and possibly sanctioned. It happened to me when I was in my early twenties and I had quit. Why can't I keep that in my head now and stop again? More importantly, why do I lack normal moral integrity?

[GrayNess]

Originally Posted by blacksheep XX

Well, I couldn't figure out how to start a new thread, so I'll reply to your Welcome Message by saying thanks, Doc!

I'm pretty certain I have a APD issue. I also have a bad case of treatment resistant depression from which I've suffered for 25 years. I've had unsuccessful ECT treatments and many drug trials. I have an unresolved sleep disorder as well. However; I write to you, here today about my problem with shoplifting. It's been going on for about a year and half and progressing. It's become a hobby. I'm a female, 44 yrs. old and every time I go into a store, I want to "get away with some thing." I feel childish and know I should be ashamed, but I love getting away with something for nothing, and with the economy so poor and us cutting back on our budget so severely, I always rationalize "buy one- take one."

I have a great therapist, but I don't want to share this with her. We have enough stuff that we are working on currently (unresolved family issues, cognitive & dialectical behavioral therapy, etc.) I fear that she will think less of me, too. It's such a stupid problem-- I can't believe that I can't figure out why I'm doing it, myself and why I can't just stop. I certainly know the unhappy end to this is getting caught, humiliated, and possibly sanctioned. It happened to me when I was in my early twenties and I had quit. Why can't I keep that in my head now and stop again? More importantly, why do I lack normal moral integrity?

The shoplifting sounds like kleptomania. I'm pretty sure there are treatment methods for it.

[Michah]

Originally Posted by blacksheep XX

Well, I couldn't figure out how to start a new thread, so I'll reply to your Welcome Message by saying thanks, Doc!

I'm pretty certain I have a APD issue. I also have a bad case of treatment resistant depression from which I've suffered for 25 years. I've had unsuccessful ECT treatments and many drug trials. I have an unresolved sleep disorder as well. However; I write to you, here today about my problem with shoplifting. It's been going on for about a year and half and progressing. It's become a hobby. I'm a female, 44 yrs. old and every time I go into a store, I want to "get away with some thing." I feel childish and know I should be ashamed, but I love getting away with something for nothing, and with the economy so poor and us cutting back on our budget so severely, I always rationalize "buy one- take one."

I have a great therapist, but I don't want to share this with her. We have enough stuff that we are working on currently (unresolved family issues, cognitive & dialectical behavioral therapy, etc.) I fear that she will think less of me, too. It's such a stupid problem-- I can't believe that I can't figure out why I'm doing it, myself and why I can't just stop. I certainly know the unhappy end to this is getting caught, humiliated, and possibly sanctioned. It happened to me when I was in my early twenties and I had quit. Why can't I keep that in my head now and stop again? More importantly, why do I lack normal moral integrity?

I am sure you have plenty of moral integrity!! Just by the nature of the fact that you recognise that it is a problem involves a conscience. The fact that you think(or don't want to) stop is because it involves dealing with an addiction or a comfort blanky. Known behaviour, especially if you get away with it, is the most comfortable(and the most stimulating!!. These are how habits are formed without us even knowing it. I am familiar with these nasty, insidious devils.

I wonder if you are doing a disservice though by not telling your therapist and i wonder if you have reverted back to it to satisfy filling a void that therapy has inadvertently reopened? Something particularly nasty that you are dealing with or discussing in length? Just a thought........

Babe, don't be so hard on yourself.......you understand the consequences and you are not morally corrupt. Just be careful and work towards telling your T.......they will not think less of you.

[roxyanne1]

Hi Michah,
Do you have bpd as shoplifting is one of the symptoms. I have exactly the same problem & find myself staying away from the shops so i dont sucumb.
But if im in a shop and the intense compulsion comes to act i do.
I've been caught 4 times and once convicted, but my doctor (psych)
helped me out with a letter stating my mental condition. Do tell your dr as
one day you might need his help one day. But dont beat yourself up...This drags you down & with me i have a battle in my head & resolve to never do it again, but wouldnt you know it...again comes around again.
You are not bad just like me need some help..so tell your dr and i hope you have some success. I can go for a long while without doing it but the chance always comes back . But i think the longer i go without doing it
each time the better.
If you would like to contact me please send me a private message...if you know how...i don't
Roxyanne1






















)

[Michah]

Sweetie, I have pm'ed you in response to your question........speak real soon......

[blacksheep XX]

Originally Posted by Michah

Sweetie, I have pm'ed you in response to your question........speak real soon......

Thanks to all you caring souls who responded to my pain. I still struggle. I struggle between wanting to share with my therapist as a couple of you have recommended I do. But, this is hard for me because there is a big part of me that does NOT want to stop. I know it is because I have been getting away with it for a while now. In fact, I got caught and went to court and stopped for a couple of decades in the past, but since it started again, it's become an addiction that I actually enjoy and feel I "need" as a function of the poor economy and my struggle with finances. Scratch that. It's not true. I don't "need" it. That's just something I tell myself to justify the acts. Actually, it makes me feel good to have the stuff and then I feel bad about myself as a human being. My boyfriend knows and says I must stop. I know he's right. I stopped telling him what I have taken when it ceased being cute. Now I feel lonely with my secret, but equally thrilled when I can save a little money on something. I don't steal expensive things either. Usually food and cosmetics... the type of stores I frequent, and get pissed about the prices and how they add up. I like the feeling that at least I have gotten one item for free.
I don't know where this confession will take me, but thank you all for your empathy and compassion.

Blacksheepxx

[Michah]

Originally Posted by blacksheep XX

Thanks to all you caring souls who responded to my pain. I still struggle. I struggle between wanting to share with my therapist as a couple of you have recommended I do. But, this is hard for me because there is a big part of me that does NOT want to stop. I know it is because I have been getting away with it for a while now. In fact, I got caught and went to court and stopped for a couple of decades in the past, but since it started again, it's become an addiction that I actually enjoy and feel I "need" as a function of the poor economy and my struggle with finances. Scratch that. It's not true. I don't "need" it. That's just something I tell myself to justify the acts. Actually, it makes me feel good to have the stuff and then I feel bad about myself as a human being. My boyfriend knows and says I must stop. I know he's right. I stopped telling him what I have taken when it ceased being cute. Now I feel lonely with my secret, but equally thrilled when I can save a little money on something. I don't steal expensive things either. Usually food and cosmetics... the type of stores I frequent, and get pissed about the prices and how they add up. I like the feeling that at least I have gotten one item for free.
I don't know where this confession will take me, but thank you all for your empathy and compassion.

Blacksheepxx

Sweetie, sorry I was responding to something roxyanne asked.......but can pm you if you like!! Good. You are on the right path........you will discuss it with your T when you are ready. Maybe if you radically accept it, the consequences as well, you will be more prepared to talk about it at a time that suits. Your post is not a confession, you are not asking for absolution, you don't need to......more that you are seeking unconditional support in your process.......and you have it. We are here........

[Donna1234]

[quote=DocJohn;965022]Welcome to a safe place to talk about antisocial personality disorder:

Hello,
My almost-16 year old son shows signs of APD. He has been hopitalized numerous times since he was 7, hurting animals, children, me, his siblings.
He recently had residential treatment ( 1 year) and has been out for a year... The problem is that the doctors don't seem to want to diagnose APD, they are only at Conduct Disorder at this point. Even as a young child he figured out how to behave for a few days of initial examination in these hospitals, and they would send him home saying " we just don't see the aggression, and we can't always just go on your word!"
I am so frustrated!! He knows how to sweet talk his way out of treatment- as if he does nothing wrong, and my 8 and 3 year old son's are in danger. He is in treatment now( under observation for a few days after threatening to harm me and his brothers) yet, they are sending him home due to him not acting out in that hospital!!!!
Is there any more specific place he can go? He is my son, but he is a danger to my other small boys and the police and hospitals feel that he has to attack and harm the boys again before they can help- a threat is not enough and I cannot remove him from my home, even if he is a teenager- they prefer to risk him killing my 3 year old to get even with me trying to hospitalize him again, but failing. He thinks he is untouchable, and nothing he does can have consequences--no hospital can hold him, because he's too smart and cunning-- that's what he has proven.
I live in Indiana, and am at my wits end. If he was an only child, keeping him at home and outpatient therapy would be tolerable, because it would only be my safety I'd worry about, but there are small children involved and my husband ( his stepdad) is ready to move the little one's away to protect them because my son ALWAYS returns to the house. My son's father has the same symptoms of APD, only he was never diagnosed. We are divorced over his cheating and violent temper.
Any advice? Get a better doctor? don't teenagers with the disorder pose a threat if they are violent when they choose? I am open to a personal email too, because I will probably lose my family and job over this (calling off work for his behaviors and husband moving the kids away from me- because my son will be my responsability for another 2 years!)

Thanks,
Donna

[NuckingFutz]

Anyway a hidden camera system can be hooked up and shown to a therapist? Also i think lack of remorse has to be proven before a pdoc can dx someone as apd. I wish you and your family well.

[Benandrestar1]

well, Blacksheepxx, the thing of it is, if you could sit down and realize that you are only driving prices even further higher, you could most likely stop.....WHY? because thats the approach we take when a compulsive shoplifter acknowledges and feels bad, you are conciencious about this and the reason and excuse you give is that 'the economy is bad" and they charge too much.....point is that the more people steal, the more shoppers have to pay. Theres a class they give much like a drivers restitution class that helps give knowledge to those who CARE...and you would benefit i beleive because you obviously do care!

[EBD8]

Living with someone with APD in my opinion like living with someone on a merry-go-round. I'm Bipolar so I'm pretty much in tune with my moods and don't live in denial about them. APD people seem to have NO idea of the consequences of their actions of how it effects other people. Their capacity to show love and kindness is especially directed to children and the elderly. Mostly hopeless people although sometimes they will even verbalize their disdain for them, their actions of compassion and kindness are mostly hollow and uncaring but they hide it so well. Otherwise they can be some of the most manipulative people you will ever meet and trusting them becomes impossible at times. The will tell 5 lies and then 5 truths and get so upset at you if you question their intentions. My personal experience is that the majority of them where violated some way as a child and with learned behavior probably lied to so much themselves that becomes their norm. It can be so disturbing because one minute they are expressing genuine love and affection, then suddenly change. APD is in the cluster B personality disorder classification. I would suggest that you read about all of them because 2 or more can be exhibited but maybe not always at the same time. I was married for 30 yrs to a women with Borderline PD. She is 54 now and is finally understanding the damage that she did, not only to me but our children as well. That's really where it can become so dishearting because they blame everyone else and feel like everyone owes them something. If you can get them to a GOOD therapist, they have a chance.

[Logic101]

I'm glad I found somewhere I can express myself without being judged or called crazy.
I realize now why I don't like to be around other people, I woke up this morning with a major hang-over and I don't drink, it is from someone who goes around my house spraying chemicals at my windows and doors and I'm afraid to call the police cause by the time I make it outside to catch them they are gone and I don't want the police to say I'm "Crazy" no one is doing it, but the signs of it happening are there if only they would take the time or care to see them. I stay away from others because I do not know exactly who they are and if they can hurt me like this I do not want to be anywhere near them.

[NuckingFutz]

Logic, you mentioned in your post that you do not like to be around people and that you stay away from others. You might want to read the traits of APD, I don't believe that not wanting to be around people is antisocial personality disorder.

[Mattmx]

Originally Posted by NuckingFutz

Logic, you mentioned in your post that you do not like to be around people and that you stay away from others. You might want to read the traits of APD, I don't believe that not wanting to be around people is antisocial personality disorder.

You're very correct Many people are confused by the antisocial title

[RogueWolf]

docs tried to say I'm borderline so why do I have this boiling seething undercurrent of hate for borderlines now? Or for that being put on me now? I resent it. I don't resent the ptsd or depression they said- I agree totally but this one I find repulsive and to not fit at all. I think that they said it only they didn't care enough to look properly cos I see public health docs- not getting paid by me so they don't give a damn. Some days I feel like I'm normal, some I feel like or am so sure in fact of being anti-social. I think what makes it confusing is that it's hard to find real accurate info on this subject- many people disagree and have opposing views, also the internet isn't best for info since any douche can make a website and pretend to know what they are talking about- you don't know if it's proper site or not unless you really look in depth. Some days I don't want anyone to find out if I really am anti-social cos I don't know what they'll do :/ And seriously I have really nasty thoughts about borderlines now I can't say here or I'll get kicked and this place is useful, been kicked from too many sites- they say you can be honest and say what you need to say but then you do and they kick you- what's up with that? :/

[RogueWolf]

nucking futz- hahaha love it^ (the name of the guy)

[ResaLock]

Originally Posted by DocJohn

Welcome to a safe place to talk about antisocial personality disorder:

Antisocial Personality Disorder Symptoms | Psych Central

Enjoy,
DocJohn

I am just wondering why the word was changed to anti social.(???) I find the word to be misleading. As the word itself does not describe the list of characteristics given for anti social.
You hear the word being used all the time for people who do not conform or more isolated not mixing in with the social majority. They will say, "oh well she/he is being anti social." Which is frowned on if one is different from a group and not of the accepted group, society or culture.
I do not fall under the list given, but I could be considered anti social.
The thing is so could a lot of people from a wide range and I find no clear boundaries for the title given. Just to mark out people who is not conformed to some group. Which would even isolate them more.
...but I find that the title itself could fall on anyone who does not interact or socially conform.
This could range from personalities such as autism/aspergers, and introverted person, to opposing minds from a particular group apart from their likenesses.

I think the title of the diagnosis should include "apathy"

I find anti social to be misleading and confusing.

...by the way...I am an antisocial type, but do not fall under the lines of the list of what it is claimed to be. Anti social meaning I am not conforming to the worlds mainstream of their ideologies and their so called rules. Because there is much error in it and apathy for others.
I am not an apathetic person. ...and seriously believe the rights of peoples good conscience. I highly respect natural laws and laws of conscience.
..but sadly there have been few people in the world who has respected mine.

[DarkLadyofMidnight]

I believe I experience APD.I will find any excuse not to be around people, I know it insults people at times but I honestly can't help myself...I feel anxious when I am around people and so I make sure I'm not around people as often as possible.

[Mattmx]

Originally Posted by DarkLadyofMidnight

I believe I experience APD.I will find any excuse not to be around people, I know it insults people at times but I honestly can't help myself...I feel anxious when I am around people and so I make sure I'm not around people as often as possible.

Antisocial personality disorder doesn't mean what it sounds like..what you describe sounds like avoidance PD. Antisocial is the technical term for sociopath/psychopath

[thelaughinggod]

A lot of what people seem to be talking about is "Social Anxiety Disorder". People with ASPD would actually be unlikely to have this. ASPD is sort of a misleading name. I have ASPD and I'm as social as a velociraptor.

If you suffer from anxiety around others, you have social anxiety disorder. If you do not feel guilt (to roughly summarize) you suffer from ASPD.

[crosstobear]

Love how there are only like four or five threads in this forum.