[muse]

Lately my mother has been making me doubt the "realness" of my panic attacks. I mean, they ARE in my head, so what if they're.... all in my head? What if I really am in control and I am just doing this to myself? What if what I am feeling is not a panic attack but is just some kind of stupid tantrum thing and... oh god I don't know, it's just my symptoms have never matched up perfectly with "typical" panic attacks so I dunno if it's really that or what. I just feel so bad right now I can't stand it.

Also how often do you get panic attacks? Recently it's gotten a lot LOT worse for me, it's up to once a week now. And there's always intense anxiety under the surface.

I can't even wrap my f*$%ing mother's day gift. Not that I want to. My mother isn't being very good at being a mom lately. The worst part is it just makes me look weak and pathetic and uncaring. FML FML FML.

[Rapunzel]

Those would be really good questions to talk about with your therapist.

Panic attacks are a response to anxiety. They are a behavior. If you are doing that behavior, it is called a panic attack. How can it not be real? Some people when they have panic attacks are afraid that they are having a heart attack, suffocating, dying, or going to pass out. I don't know what you are worrying about when you have a panic attack, but do you ever have panic attacks when you aren't worrying and feeling anxious? I doubt it. The heart attack, suffocation, passing out, dying, etc. aren't really going to happen, but if you are panicking, how can anyone tell you that you are not?

You might ask yourself if you need to panic to the extent that you do, or if you could stay calm if you choose to. At least the behavior you engage in. Panicking actually intensifies and creates more anxiety, so when you have a panic attack, you probably feel worse than you would if you quietly observed the emotions and maybe worked on sorting out where they are coming from.

There are physical sensations that are part of panic attacks, but those don't have to result in a panic attack. I have pretty bad anxiety, but no panic attacks. When I filled out my intake info for my pdoc, it asked about symptoms like increased heart rate, dry mouth, trembling, etc. I was extremely nervous being there for the first time. They took my blood pressure and asked if I normally had high blood pressure, or it it was because I was nervous. I don't have high blood pressure ordinarily. My mouth gets so dry that I can't talk. I've learned to cope by having gum or something to drink. People can look at me and see how nervous I am - to the point that it interferes with my career. So I answered that I had those symptoms. I had gotten to the point that I decided to try medication because I couldn't control my anxiety well enough to keep it from holding me back and also affecting people around me. Pdoc assumed that I have panic attacks, because that is what those symptoms describe. But I don't panic. I used to not even notice my anxiety symptoms, even though other people saw it. I noticed when I couldn't talk, but didn't know that was anxiety until my T identified it. I had figured that I must be allergic to people and conversations that make me nervous, or something like that.

My point is that you probably do have a higher sensitivity level, and you probably feel those physical symptoms. Maybe you always will. But you have a choice about what you do when you feel that way. You can remind yourself that it is anxiety and it will pass. Panicking doesn't make it go away. It makes it worse. And it interferes with your life.

What you feel is real, but it may be possible that your reaction to it is out of proportion. Also ask yourself what you are getting out of having panic attacks. Everything has a payoff. Is it possible that it has something to do with your relationship with your mom? It really sounds like you struggle very hard to get her to understand your emotional distress, and she doesn't validate your emotions and your experience. The result is you pushing it up a notch because you still need her to hear you, and her getting annoyed or concerned or angry and continuing to invalidate you because what you are doing makes her even more uncomfortable (parents invalidate their children because they don't know how to deal with their children's emotions, and they get anxious and panic and want to make it stop - sometimes because they want you to be happy). Would it help to get your T to help you to tell your mom about what you are feeling, and show her how to listen and validate? If your mom understood you, would you be able to have more control over extreme emotions and panic?

http://www.psychologytoday.com/condi...panic-disorder
http://anxietypanichealth.com/reference/panic-attack/
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pan...8/METHOD=print

[ECHOES]

Panic is fear, just like anxiety is fear.
An idea enters your mind that frightens you and when we feel fear, adrenalin is activated. The increased adrenalin causes the pounding heart, breathlessness, jittery feeling.
It doesn't have to be a huge fear, just fear.
Fear of failure, of losing (perceived) control, fear of success (and what comes next), fear of adulthood, more concrete fears like fear of persons who have hurt us...
Even tantrums can be fear making us behave in a way pushes things or people away from us, or us away from them. A self-protective behavior.

What begins the process of the anxiety and panic is key. If you can notice when the anxiety and panic begins, see if you can also notice what you are thinking which may tell you what causes your fear. It takes practice, and some journalling may help because it can free the mental process. Just write whatever comes to mind.

[Vibe]

I can identify with the symptoms not matching up perfectly and feelings of guilt. Oftentimes when I'm needed, mine are triggered by the overt stress of the situation. So despite the fact that I really want to do something for others during these situations, I can't even keep myself together. I want to do more, and have actually found the answer for me is to put off these situations (if possible) until I'm feeling more equipped to deal with them. I accomplish more and don't get triggered that way. I can also sense my attacks coming, so I know to remove myself from the situation when they start to occur.

Now, my symptoms actually make me want to describe what I endure as an anxiety attack rather than a panic attack. Although my body is enduring a panic response, my mind doesn't feel panicked. If a spider crawls on me, I'm going to jump and flip and screech and do everything I can to get it off. Instead, when I endure these episodes I dissociate. My mind also fogs and it seems to separate from my body. I shake badly, tingle, sometimes cry and get palpitations, hyperventilate (which causes bad chest pain and light headedness), and eventually my breathing might get so shallow that I get very desperate for oxygen. My body also freezes up (sometimes contorting itself) during these events and I end up unmoved in a laying position.

However, what I don't get is the feeling of ultimate dread that almost defines panic attacks. My boyfriend gets panic attacks sometimes and he will literally freak out. He calls 911 'cause he thinks he's having a heart attack, and nothing I say can dissuade him from these thoughts. It might be partially due to his weight, but his temperature will spike too. We actually had to make sure he wasn't having seizures.

My mind, on the other hand, will often be in the duldrums. 'Ho hum. Well this sucks. Sure wish I could breathe. My body contorting in these weird positions is painful. I hope I'll be able to move out of them soon. I wish he'd stop crying. Oh god, it's making it worse. Oh god that hurts.' And then sometimes I really get scared. And I often feel out of control and really bad, but not... panicked. Just anxiety.

It's some sort of attack but I honestly don't know what. I just describe it as an anxiety attack because I've no idea what else to call it. It's extreme enough that I know it's an episode of something, but the panic isn't there. :/ Given the myriad of symptoms associated with panic episodes though, I'm left to wonder if there are different types? Maybe we'll see new classifications which better describe our symptoms someday. However, I know I don't want to feel bad, and I doubt you do either. So I really don't think the various episodes we experience can be discounted as 'just a tantrum.' Just because they don't fit the technical classification of something in a very specific way doesn't mean they aren't real and valid as a symptom of our disorders.

(((((Muse)))))--I am in constant fight or flight state. My panic has its basis in my situation in life---It is very real, and very frightening...I find coming here, to pc, when I am experiencing a really bad case of cotton mouth, palpitations, and paralytic
frozen tingles throughout my body, helps me.

Someone always posts something funny- and i shakily hit on the keyboard; and the resultant is laughter------I want to thank all of you who've helped me this way------

It honestly feels as if I am near death when I am at this point--the laughter dissipates the panic ------------so very grateful to pc---theo

How are you doing, muse?

[muse]

I'm a bit depressed and sad today, Byzantine, but otherwise I am doing fine. Thank you for asking!

Thank you all so very, VERY much for all of your insight and information. I am processing it slowly because this is such a deeply troubling issue for me and my energy has been pulled everywhere else lately.

All of what you've said about panic/anxiety attacks being controllable, at least to a certain degree, rings really true with me. It's really hard for me to realize that and act on it because, once the attacks are gone, where is my excuse for failure? For not being able to do things? If I don't have a problem then what is keeping me from being perfect? Just myself. Which means I'm not good enough.

Oh my God. I thought I'd gotten over all of that. o.O Talk about your spur-of-the-moment revelations.

It's true though. I've been trying really hard to better monitor my attacks in the past month or so and I've also been trying to control/lessen them with different thoughts, breathing, that sort of thing. I can't quite do it yet--whenever I try I get a few moments of calm and then it spikes back up, almost like it's snapping back at me for trying to control it and the buildup is released. But I realized during the attack I had on Mother's day that my other emotions (my "real" emotions, like a normal amount of frustration, sadness, and hurt) were making it a lot harder to control and I was in effect making the attack worse. Huh.

Araya, what you experience sounds almost exactly like what happens to me! My mind isn't really clear, though; while I mostly keep a handle on my thoughts, my mind goes kind of blank and fuzzy, like there is static made of barbed wire and awfulness churning around in my head. I have thoughts like, "Oh God this is so awful, I have to do (whatever), what is wrong with me..." that sort of thing, but I'm not exactly clear-headed. ^.^

[Vibe]

Ah, I had wondered! I always thought mine was strange too. However, when I look into Byzantine's links, I find that I have at least 7 of the criteria for a panic attack. Only 4 are needed. Your thread actually prompted me to look further into it last night, and I found something really interesting!

Apparently there is such a thing as Non-Fearful Panic Disorder. It's just that most people who get treated for panic attacks are doing so because of the fear, so it's not very well known. It also seems somewhat controversial right now. I found a study about it online: http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/...t/41/4/311.pdf

The thing is that mine are associated with intense anxiety though. Just not fear. And I can be made worse if the triggering stimuli gets more severe throughout my attack. However, after I'm over the threshold I'm gone, and I have to go through the episode and come out the other side. It's also lasted far more than ten minutes before when the stimuli continued. I've had the entire process take up to an hour before - usually because I'm fighting early on not to go over the edge. Once the hyperventilation starts it's all over.

And I have a lot of trouble explaining this stuff sometimes. My mind's never really clear either. But... I can form a coherent thought, ya know? Like I can speak in my mind, but not out loud. I get the blank fuzziness too... get it a lot actually. My mind's always in that state to some extent, but these attacks make it so much worse. A lot of the time I just lay there wishing it would end. However, I know I'm not going to die and I don't have any overwhelming paranoid thoughts unless the stimuli is focused that way for some reason. I just started calling them 'anxiety attacks' 'cause I didn't like the panic focus.

[Hippie]

First, panic attacks are real. I had to hear that more then once to understand the physical effects were actually happening. That old devil adrenaline.
But I also disssociate during an attack. Does anyone else do that?

[Hippie]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

http://www.psychologytoday.com/condi...panic-disorder
http://anxietypanichealth.com/reference/panic-attack/
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pan...8/METHOD=print

Interesting that in the anxietypanichealth site the statistics say women are three times as likely to experience panic attacks. Could the stats be skewed because, perhaps, women are more likely to report the occurrence whereas men might think it's a weakness and keep mum?
Also, the author makes reference to a prevailing lower education level. Hmmm. I take offense. Where was the study done? At a street clinic? At a university? Was it longitudinal? Conducted in a lab atmosphere? A pen/paper quiz?

[muse]

I'll take a look at those links when I have more energy... but Arya, what you are describing sounds EXACTLY like what I go through! I've never been happier to know I'm not alone in my experiences. Usually that feeling of "yup, other folks have this too" doesn't change how I feel much, but since my panicky stuff is so atypical I often feel kind of isolated about it. It really helps to know you go through the same thing... though of course I wish neither of us did!

Went to see my therapist today, and she certainly thinks my attacks are real! I trust her implicitly, since she really is the most highly-qualified psychiatrist I've ever met. It really helped to hear her say "your attacks sound much more intense than before" without questioning their validity.

[Pughead]

Panic attacks are very real. Anyone who says otherwise has never had one. It has physical symptoms. For me, the worst are the blood circulation related symptoms. My feet get extremely cold, my arms are usually the first to go numb, and then my face. Then I get tunnel vision. The only thing that helps, in addition to benzos, is having someone or something help me to stay in touch with reality.

But yeah, it can come out of nowhere, unprovoked. Usually when that happens, my symptoms are very mild, but it does happen.

How are you doing, muse?

[Skully]

When I feel an anxiety attack coming on, I have this heavy feeling in the pit of my stomach, almost like I am going to be sick. That is how I know one is coming on.

[muse]

Yeah, that happens to me too, Skully! That's one of the first signs I get.

I'm doing a little better these days. Still having attacks, but my doctor upped my does of Cymbalta to 90mg and it seems to make their duration and intensity somewhat less, which is awesome. I just wish she'd go ahead and bring me up to 120, but that's the maximum allowed dose and she's not one to rely on meds (which, in the long run, is pretty awesome for me.

Glad you are somewhat better, Muse.