How are you all dealing with coronavirus and the restrictions... #2

@hvert yes there are differing reports 're effectiveness it's hard to know what to believe. I think it may be complicated by the fact some studies measure effectiveness as getting any infection even if mild and others talk about measurement of severe symptoms.

're your family member, that must be concerning for you. It's not probably going to be wise to try to convince him from what you say? Needle phobia is a very common issue - my sister volunteered at a vaccination centre and there were quite a few faints etc. Best idea is not to look at the needle going in but if you do (I did!) you see it is super fine and that's why most people don't feel it.

I guess if he seems willing to talk about his fears you could open a dialogue with him? Just to explore his thoughts and concerns. Maybe that might help him think differently as you talk it through, but it's a toughie definitely. Hugs!

So things are evolving even more here.... Now we are told no need to isolate if you are double vaccinated from 16th August. Which I can understand (isolating is causing major chaos in work places and transmission is rare in vaccinated) but they are also saying unvaccinated under 18s no need to isolate from then either which seems like the equivalent of saying the want kids to get it spread it and develop natural immunity? Except no one has said this outright. I feel like government is not being honest with us.

The British Medical association have spoken out against the plans and many Drs are not in agreement with it either.

@hvert,

The needle is incredible thin and no painful at all.
The problem is that he has already probably seen on TV the fact of the injections being administrated and if he already has a problem with needles is more than enough for him.
I would do what @Discombobulated told you. Supporting him. Accompany him. I’m sure they won’t put you any problem in doing it if you explain it and then, if he cannot get it. It’s ok. No matter. Let him know that it’s not a problem. He has a justification.

You, guys, in the States, will probably reach herd immunity soon. I guess people who have trouble with needles have a justification.

Ask him only for giving the step to go although maybe he feels embarrassed if he can’t get it. I also can understand it.

In cases like this I completely excuse people who can’t face to be vaccinated. As much as we may see it as even less than a mosquito’s bite, for them is like a torture.

Yeah, I think it is hard to fully pinpoint the efficacy of each vaccine. They were often tested on different populations, different conditions. Some accounted for mild or asymptomatic infection, others not. The ones tested later had more variants to contend with, etc.

I know that there was a much hailed study about Sinovac done on Indonesian doctors that found it over 90% effective against hospitalization and death. It turns out that they were only followed over 28 days after being fully vaccinated. I don't think that tells you much since people often get progressively worse and end up hospitalized. If you got infected on day 21 of the study you may end up hospitalized or dead after day 28. Now, a few months later, many Indonesian doctors that got Sinovac have died. It's being attributed to the Delta variant, but the vaccine was probably never over 90% effective in the first place.

I think the chief of staff staying was too much of a liability. There's no smoking gun, but the Interior Ministry is the government entity that approves travel. I am sure there were no e-mails or calls through official channels, but they had other ways to contact each other.

The government has had so many gaffes and "let them eat cake" moments in their handling of the pandemic, where they show they do not understand how their policies are impacting normal people while the priviliged do what they want with few consequences. They couldn't do nothing this time. This is the second time they lied about the circumstances of someone bringing in the Delta variant and eventually had to correct themselves. People are losing patience again.


Super-spreader event is right. Apparently the parents are anti-vaxxers as well. If what I have read is correct, the father has been identified. He's an evangelical pastor. He also ran to be a member of the convention that is going to rewrite the constitution. He lost, though.

Meanwhile in the Netherlands......

The government is *considering* closing clubs again because the nr of cases is rising like crazy. They're on their way to going back on red for the rest of Europe.

A number of clubs has already decided to close, all on their own, because clubs have shown to be a source of infections. They have decided to lose their income for safety, yet the government is still thinking about it Seriously how stupid are they?

(For some numbers:
Positive test Friday last week: less than 1.000
Positive tests today: almost 5.500 )

I'm glad I got my vaccination so I don't have to quarantine when I come back to Germany in a few weeks, even if NL are on red.

@BreakForTheLight what's happening in NL should sound a warning to the UK - but sadly our government won't take heed.

Some UK figures here:

Daily infections 32,551 (up 4,562 from last Thursday)

Daily hospitalizations 2,636 (up 831 from last Thursday)

Daily deaths 35 (up 13 from last Thursday)

Weekly deaths are 174 up 52.6% from the week before.

Yet in 2 weeks they are lifting all restrictions including face coverings in shops and transport??

Here we have 3,193 new cases and 186 deaths in the latest report. Cases are well off the 8,000 per day in April and May, but the deaths are not really budging. I know they are a lagging indicator, but they should show some sign of moving downwards by now, you would think. So far in July, there have been 926 deaths, which is a lot worse than the UK.

It is interesting the divide that seems to be opening up between governments that want to reach zero Covid and those that decide that the virus is going to be something we have to live with. Here the Medical College proposed a zero Covid plan but the government rejected it. Today, they are going to announce a new tiered system that supposedly will give more freedom to the vaccinated and open up schools. I guess New Zealand is the other extreme. I read that they want to build a government isolation facility for cases and continue to implement lockdowns for the forseeable future. I guess we will see in time how each strategy plays out.

Active cases seem to be fizzling out a bit in our region. Our average cases are down 45% over the last 14 days, Brazil is down 35% and Paraguay 26%. We are out of the top 10 worldwide in active cases per 100,000 finally. Interestingly, Brazil and Paraguay have vaccinated a much lower percentage of the population than we have but are still seeing significant declines. I guess the high level of natural infections means that there are fewer hosts to attack. Argentina and Colombia are still pretty high but showing single-digit declines over the last 2 weeks. I think this wave started later in Colombia. I hope the downward trend keeps up in this part of the world.

You guys are freaking me out. Delta must not be here yet - they said we had a few cases of it a couple of weeks ago but it must not be widespread because we are still having low case counts and apparently hit a milestone by having the lowest % positive tests since this started. I come here and read the numbers and see that this can change in a heartbeat. Our cases now are still higher than they were at this time last year. When the kids go back to school in the fall, will it sky rocket again?


One thing they've mentioned where I live is that the outbreaks and hospitalizations are happening in the unvaccinated enclaves. Are clubs in NL a problem because the people who go are young and not able to get the vaccine yet?


I don't think I will be able to convince my relative to get vaccinated. He hasn't come out and said that he doesn't want it because of needles so I don't have an opening to comment on ways to work around that. I also think just mentioning needles will make him queasy. I saw him yesterday but didn't bring it up.


Did you all see the birthday party study? It proves that small social gatherings are a major contributor to spread. Assessing the Association Between Social Gatherings and COVID-19 Risk Using Birthdays | Public Health | JAMA Internal Medicine | JAMA Network

hvert - I have heard similar here. Gatherings at home indoors seem to be the cause of a lot of cases.

Well, this is big. A Health Ministry employee denounced the Health Minister and one of his assistants for attending a party with 30 people at the Ministry, when gatherings of over 5 people are not permitted. It seems unlikely that this is made up, since the employee would be risking their job if they lied about it. His minion, the Undersecretary said that he just stopped by to say hi to a few people. Probably another lie. And, if he had come across a party, as an authority of the Ministry, he would have been required to report it. Will he please resign now?

I always suspected that the top authorities who are supposedly so pained about putting us under these restrictions were secretly not following the rules themselves. I imagined it would come out eventually. Between this and the incidents with the people bringing Delta into the country, the cracks are showing.

That makes sense hvert, does anyone remember measles parties when people used to deliberately hold parties to infect children with measles?

It's over 35,000 daily cases today.

Delta makes up 99% of cases now, yes it's much more transmissible but like you say Hvert it's mostly unvaccinated who are at risk. Here the children have been in schools since March so that is a big source of infection.

I got told today if you get a negative test you don't have to do the full 10 days isolation anymore after contact with an infected person. I wasn't aware of that. I'm confused by changing rules. I think many people are.

I met with 2 friends for lunch today, we all did negative lateral flow tests yesterday so it felt as safe as possible. It was so nice just relaxing together.

Yeah, the changing rules make everyone's head spin, I think. Here too, the new plan they announced is a huge mess. Different capacities allowed for people in places like restaurants and theaters depending on whether or not they are vaccinated. Gyms can open from phase two on, also with similar restrictions.

I don't see there is any way that all this can be enforced. I guess each business will have to try and do it on their own. But, what happens if someone refuses to show proof of vaccine? I know security guards in the US had issues when they told customers they needed to wear a mask. I know there were even cases of physical aggression and I think I remember hearing that one guard was shot over a mask mandate. I am not sure if we would see that here, but it seems possible.

10 more confirmed Delta cases came in through the supposedly closed borders.

You are way ahead of us with vaccinations.

In NL is was definitely young, unvaccinated people getting infected at clubs. Or people who'd had their shot but didn't built protection yet because they were allowed to go out immediately after. It was a thing, "Dansen met Janssen" (dancing with J&J). Now they've realised they made a huge mistake and decided people do need to wait 2 weeks after getting the vaccine.
And clubs have to close again. But not until tomorrow. There is no logic.

Supposedly delta is more contagious but less deadly.

Here the same, Break.
We now are at the top of the most risky zones in Europe. Germans advised their citizens not coming here.
Noone is taking decisions. Only scientists and experts are advising about the consequences. And here we are on the fifth wave of the pandemia. And I’m afraid of the new possible restrictions. Late and bad, as always, to try to diminish greater problems. 🙄

Can you believe that yesterday when I got into a shop, the shop workers had to tell a man that he had to put the mask on. Still.
I wonder which planet this person is coming from.

I think more than one person in the US was shot or killed due to an attempt to enforce Covid rules. So ridiculous that retail employees were stuck enforcing unpopular mandates. Many businesses told their employees NOT to enforce rules, just like they say to let the robbers have whatever they want. It's not worth risking your life to confront someone in these cases.


That is nuts about the health minister and the 30 person party. I wonder if he will be ousted?


Apparently my state is not doing widespread testing for Delta because the test is in short supply and is too expensive. Random sampling done by hospitals suggests 40% of patients have Delta. The most shocking statistic is that the majority of patients seeking Covid treatment at hospitals now require ICU care. They are mostly unvaccinated and unfortunately in rural areas where the hospitals aren't very good or plentiful. They are younger and slimmer than the people who were hospitalized in earlier waves.

@AzulOscuro you are on an island, right? It seems in many places (like where I live) the tourism industry's interests won out over public health interests.

It is sad that the retail workers have to be the ones to risk enforcing these things, especially for probably a bit more than minimum wage. Here, the two main supermarkets we go to in town have the security guards checking for permits/mobility passes when we have been in the stricter lockdown phases. They also check temperatures and make sure people are wearing a mask. I haven't seen or heard of any issues here, but people here are more laid back than in urban areas. My husband has gone a few times into Santiago and said there were fewer checks than here - maybe to avoid problems for the employees? I can imagine there being some incidents in the, let's say, rougher neighborhoods of the capital.

I have thought the Minister and his staff all need to go for a while. But, now with all these latest gaffes related to the Delta variant and now the party there are more calls for them to resign or be fired. If the party is true, he can't stay and the Undersecretary should go too. Now there are accusations of a second party at the Ministry during full lockdown, which the Undersecretary also attended. How can they have any authority to impose all these restrictions on the rest of us when they don't follow them?

The government spokesperson came out to say that if they did exceed the number of people permitted at gatherings, it's okay because as a Ministry they are not subject to the same restrictions as people in their homes. That guy is probably lying again since that is all they do. No one has presented any documentation to back up this exception to the rule. Just like when they couldn't document how a woman was allowed to quarantine for only one day due to a humanitarian exception. I wonder how people like that stay in their jobs sometimes. I would feel morally bankrupt and dirty defending this government all the time. The spokesperson actually lives in our town and gave up his congressional seat representing our area to take the job. I wonder if he regrets it, because now he will not be able to get the stench of this government off him if he wants to run for office again.


Already the guy that reads the noon news on one of the main channels here lost his job after attending a clandestine party. Two District Attorneys were also fired for getting a restaurant to open up for them in lockdown. The logic was how can the news guy have any legitimacy reporting on people being busted at parties when he has done the same? Similarly, how can the DAs represent the law when they don't follow the health code? Being that we are now talking about the highest-level health figures that have the power to confine us in hour own homes, and they don't follow the rules, I don't think they can stay. The allegations are currently being investigated.

@BreakThroughTheLight, I just saw this article about the Netherlands. They are saying that hospitalizations aren't up yet, but that is always a lagging indicator. I wonder what things will look like in a few weeks as far as the hospital system.:


Coronavirus cases in the Netherlands surge more than 800% in one week - BNO News

More than 800% is insane. And they're still staying away from face masks and other measures

But after all my complaining, I'm gonna post something positive. I went to my first concert in 1,5 years and I had an amazing time It was all very safe, everyone had their own "bubble", it was outdoors, people wore masks when leaving their bubble - even though it isn't required anymore outside.
At first it was a little weird, the crowd being so spread out. Me, the extreme introvert who always complains about people getting too close, missing standing in a crowd But the band were so happy to be on stage, it was a lot of fun! Not quite the same energy.... but maybe I'll actually get some sleep tonight (Usually after concerts I'm tossing and turning until 4 or 5 AM)

The concert sounds awesome!!

If we can believe the government (which is of course debatable) we have the best numbers reported today 3.6% positivity and 1,227 new cases. My municipality is finally under 100 active cases. Of course the Health Minister and his minions stomped on any chance that this will lead to reducing restrictions, saying we are not going to be like Europe and open up too much. So, stuck in phase 2 we are.

I hope cases stay low @rechu it doesn't sound like you have significant delta infection.

Over 42,000 cases today, they are predicting 100,000 a day in this wave. It looks to me like they're trying to purposefully bring it on ahead of winter.

London transport have insisted face coverings will still be mandatory but who knows about everywhere else. My employer (major retailer) is yet to issue a statement, along with the majority of retailers. I know the union is pushing for face coverings to stay.

The government are saying face coverings will no longer be mandatory but people should still wear them!

I don’t live in the archipelagos of Spain. I live in the peninsula but nonetheless, tourist industry is very important for the entire country.
And you are totally right in what you said about being relaxing safety measures for kind of saving a little the struggles in our Economy.

But, still I think we haven’t been doing well. Because now contagios are rising a lot so it’s normal countries from the North of Europe advice their citizens.
What is due this increase of contagios? We will know with time but it seems the increasing is taking place in the young range age.

Then, here there’s an ancestral problem between Central Government and the Communities and wherever a problem may emerge, the Central Government passes the responsibility to the Communities and the Communities to the Central Government and so on. You know...each country has its idiosyncrasies.
It’s all so boring, obscene and hurting that I decided a long time ago to disconnect from anything that may come from a politician or someone who may have obtain a charge due to political reasons.

It’s said in bad situations the best and the worst of us arises to the surface. Well, I’m still waiting for seeing the best.

@Discombobulated - Our borders were semi-closed before Delta appeared and still are so, which has helped. There were those two cases of positive people getting out of doing the hotel quarantine recently. I know "patient zero", as they call her, infected a few family members. However a wider outbreak in that town, which was feared, does not seem to be materializing. It's the same with the other family. In that case the positive case was a baby, so he or she is probably not out and about spreading it around."Patient zero" is being charged with violating the health code and is prohibited from going back to the US, where she lives. She is from here but emigrated to Miami.

I read that recently another 10 cases have been detected in arriving passengers and they are being isolated in an infectious disease hospital ward. There was another Chilean that came in from Armenia soon after the first case and it was also detected upon arrival. After those first two screw-ups, I think the authorities decided that they needed to get more serious about it.

I hope it works. We already had the Manaus variant tear through here like wildfire a few months back. That was when cases hit 8,000 a day. We don't need a Delta wave.

I hope it will stay this way for you - it sounds like the border controls are much better than here.

In the UK in the spring our government took a long time to decide India should become a red list country (red list have strict designated hotel quarantine upon arrival which costs each person several thousand pounds, Amber list is a much looser private agreement quarantine which no one checks you've done!) when they finally announced that India would be Red list (bearing in mind all South American countries have been Red listed since last year!) They gave a months notice, understandably many people took the opportunity to travel in that time, many UK people are Indian descent. So around 100,000 people arrived from India with only a very loose quarantine agreement and some of those will have not done it all.

Our government got the borders wrong in the 1st wave and again with Delta. Incredible stupidity.

Numbers are rising in Germany as well and the % of the delta variant is growing. But it's mostly young people where nrs are rising as well.

Congrats to the Netherlands for getting themselves in the red on the EU map so far I don't think Germany has changed anything for people travelling from there.......

But my concerts this weekend are happening. And I really wish they weren't. I think the one indoors is stupid. Outdoors is okay.... but I have a double ticket and no one to go with. Being at my parents' place has almost transported me back in time to depressed, insecure me from before I moved out. And I just can't face going on my own right now. So that's a lot of money wasted

Sorry, not really on the topic of corona restrictions anymore. I just feel really horrible about missing the outdoor concert. Missing it because I am a pathetic loser without any friends. And the money I spent on tickets. If it were cancelled, I'd at least be getting my money back.

I came here to enjoy the summer more than in the city. "Summer"..... the area is flooded!

@BreakForTheLight I'm sorry to read you feel transported back to this earlier time in your life and you feel unable to attend the concerts you'd wanted to. I don't think you are a loser though, social anxiety is a tough thing to deal with, hope you can be kind to yourself about this.

It's okay that you write off the main topic about this, I think we all understand about anxiety and how it can affect our lives, it's okay to express what you feel.

Honestly my life is so low key now, attending a concert for me would be unthinkable- yet I read last week you did just that, and you were enjoying it too. I read this that your spark is still there?

Here they waited too long to stop the Gamma variant from Brazil, but the border closure is doing better with Delta it seems, after botching the first several cases.


It is kind of weird. There was a lot of sowing panic about having a major Delta outbreak in the area where patient zero was out and about, but either it didn't happen or they are not being forthcoming.

Well, much to my surprise they passed our whole region into phase 3 starting on Monday. Hmm, just in time for school winter break. Business like restaurants can do limited indoor dining and theaters can open also with limited capacity. Although, from what I read, many smaller businesses cannot really allow enough people in to make it worthwhile. My husband is still very reticent to go out to a restaurant or other closed space anyways, so it won't impact me too much.

The good thing is that the stupid weekend curfew ends. So, it's easier to run errands on weekends and non-essential businesses can open on weekends. We can even go to the good supermarket to the north of here.

I hope it will last this time. We made it all the way to phase 4 last November. Then, they sent the whole region back to phase 2 in December while opening the borders to let foreigners in for the eclipse. They had more rights of movement than we did! We made it back to phase 3 in January and it lasted all of a week. Since then we have alternated between phase 1 and 2.

Before they announced it, I got an e-mail from the local zoo saying they were going to open on weekends. I am not a huge zoo fan, but it is the most modern one in the country with nice enclosures and they take in rescued animals. It makes an important contribution to the local economy and we use their vet clinic for certain services because they have the latest equipment. Anyways, we sponsored an animal a few weeks ago. It was a campaign to help raise money because they have had very little income this last year but still have to care for the animals. So, I guess I am on their list, now. I figured if they are opening, that meant phase 3 for us.