How are you all dealing with coronavirus and the restrictions... #2

I would do 700km in a car but probably not on public transportation if I just had to wait another month or two.


So my state lifted all restrictions just in time for the holiday weekend that marks the official start of our tourism season. Tourism is big business here. My library is still closed. Govt. offices are still closed. Rules for thee but not for me. I feel like our government sold us out to the tourism interests. Last year they were marketing us as a safe place to go. Our biggest super spreader event was connected to people who traveled here from somewhere else. If we had closed our borders to vacationers, there would have been far fewer deaths. This seems to be happening in many places, tourists being allowed even when it is not safe, and I find it aggravating.

@rechu it is too bad your government can't congratulate themselves for doing something good, ordering vaccines before anyone knew what would work, and then admit that they bet on the wrong horse. They are just doubling down.

Boy the city you are in makes a huge difference. Last week I was in my daughter’s city and almost no one wore a mask. Last night I went to a restaurant to pickup food in my town and 80% or more were wearing a mask. It was very crowded with Memorial Day crows. It’s only a 20 minute drive between them and a world view. Her town is staunchly GOP and my town leans blue.

And tripling down, and quadrupling down. I wonder if the President, his family businesses and/or the Health Minister plan to invest in that Sinovac facility that they want to locate here. That would make it more understandable that they want to make it look like Sinovac is the greatest thing ever! If not, who would buy it?


This government will never admit they have screwed up. The Health Minister at a press conference said the President will go down in history for his great management of the pandemic. And, no, I don't think he was being sarcastic. I do think the President will go down in history, but not for that reason. Either they are the best actors ever or they truly believe they are doing a great job, even though the criticism from the medical community keeps increasing. The Medical College just withdrew from the group that advises the government due to the bad decisions being made and the fact that the Health Minister ignores any recommendations they make.


Well, I guess the President has done well for himself and his cronies. His personal fortune has increased by over US$300 million since the pandemic started. The large business groups have done well because they had the resources to shift their business model. The largest beverage manufacturer, for example, was able to quickly move into e-commerce. Obviously sales to bars and restaurants went way down due to the lockdowns, so they shifted their efforts to at home delivery. Logistics weren't a problem because they already had trucks and drivers. Most small businesses have very limited resources and would have a hard time making such a big change. They did open their platform to some smaller beer breweries and are handling the deliveries for those too. But, I wonder how much these small businesses have to pay the bigger company for the right to be on their website. I actually have some stock in the beverage company and judging by the dividends I've been getting over the last year, their new strategy is working.

Oh, now this is great. A business association donated 515 ventilators. Only 32 work. Hmm, they were bought from China.

And further news, now they say that of all hospitalized people, 37% were fully vaccinated. 63% weren't and the percentage of people in the ICU that were not vaccinated also has gone down to 86% from 90%. Now 14% of those in the ICU were "vaccinated". No one will divulge how many in the ICU got Sinovac as opposed to Pfizer. Hmm, I wonder why? Now it's about 85% getting Sinovac, but it was over 90% earlier since more doses of Pfizer and AstraZeneca have been coming in over the last few months. A lot of people vaccinated with AstraZeneca/Pfizer aren't considered fully vaccinated because they are waiting for the second dose or it hasn't been 2 weeks since the second.

And the WHO approved Sinovac as well now? Why....

We might be able to get a vaccination through the company after all, but first appointments will probably be in July. I feel kind of conflicted. It's people signing up in multiple places that are causing the issue of no appointments available anywhere. I don't want to be a part of the problem but I also don't want to be left out and wait months to get vaccinated. Ugh, Germany has made such a mess of this it's such a horribly bureaucratic country usually and now they're just going "good luck getting yourself a vaccination, everyone!"

@BreakForTheLight - My only guess is that they approved it because that way it can be distributed through COVAX and since there are many poorer countries that have no vaccines at all, Sinovac is better than nothing and can help make up the shortfall. Plus, the logistics of distributing are easier in remote areas. From what I understand they recognized it's barely over the 50% threshold for symptomatic disease. There is a feeling that China might have put some pressure on the WHO too. To me, I still wouldn't want that crap. I just don't.

That sucks people are hoarding appointments. It must be extremely frustrating.


Here on social media and in comments to news articles, etc. people parrot the line that none of the vaccines prevent transmission. It's true that at first no one knew how effective they were at that, but what we are seeing in highly vaccinated countries not using Sinovac, like the US, Israel and the UK is that they are helping to prevent transmission.

You also hear Sinovac is 100% effective in preventing death. Again, another lie. Cases trickle out, I am sure there are more than we are hearing. The most recent was a nurse, 36 years old, good health, no comorbidities. I guess he got unlucky and was vaccinated after they ran out of the initial shipments of Pfizer that were used for health, workers, shifting to Sinovac. Anyways, he was probably fully vaccinated with Sinovac by mid-March at the latest and now he's dead.

An advisor to the president just said that we are going to have to get over 80% vaccinated, closer to 100% once vaccines are approved for kids and that people that got Sinovac will need a third dose of it. When does the insanity end? From what I have heard, that hasn't even been studied yet. I guess they are just assuming it might help. I am sure China will be happy to send us millions more Sinocrap doses. At least Uruguay wants to study using a third dose of Pfizer for people who got Sinovac. There Pfizer is reserved for over-70s and medical workers.

And another gem. The municipality of Lo Barnechea (ritzy area of Santiago) has 95% of the population with 1 dose and 71% fully vaccinated. They get sent back to lockdown tomorrow.

I feel really hopeless that we are going to have any semblance of normality any time soon. It's going to be masks and business closures and curfews forever.

We had the same thing with multiple lists and being told not to sign up for them. My thought was that if they didn't want people to sign up for multiple lists, they should have made a centralized system (which our govt. did, after the vaccine rush was over, too little, too late). There was such a rush for appointments that I don't think being on multiple lists hurt anyone. When my name came up on a list, I got an automated text/email/voicemail. Our lists were just to be able to *make* an appointment - they didn't actually give you the appointment until you called or texted them back. Most of the vaccines were run through vaccine clinics run by hospitals or larger health care service providers who were processing thousands of people per day.


Some places had no list. You had to be online at midnight when they opened appointments and then the site would crash because too many people were trying at the same time. One place released appointments once a week at 4 PM. There were Twitter accounts and websites to help people find appointments.


The mRNA vaccines seem to be having a positive effect here. I saw a friend this weekend who has been driving tests to the state lab. He told me that on some days last week, he delivered *no* tests.

I don't know if this is the greatest article, but what has really bothered me is the lackluster speed at which we are ramping up mRNA production globally. We need these factories everywhere: Vaccine production needs to speed way up for the next pandemic - Vox

Here is the article from here about the need to get people mRNA vaccines in the mid-term (translated to English). Interesting read. Of course the government will not listen.

Google Translate

I am not very familiar with this publication. It's a British current events/politics magazine. They brought up something I have not heard elsewhere and found interesting:

"As for Sinovac, results have been all over the place. Brazilian trials at first suggested an efficacy against symptomatic illness of 78 per cent — hastily downgraded to just 50.4 per cent when mild cases were added. That is only just over the 50 per cent threshold that the WHO, and many countries, demand for approval. Other trials have produced better outcomes: interim results from a Turkish study claimed 91 per cent efficacy and a study involving Indonesian healthcare workers 65 per cent.

Why are these results so different? One possibility is that different trials are using different standards to define symptomatic disease. Another is that production of the Sinovac vaccine itself is not constant: that different batches have very different results. That is one problem with producing dead-virus vaccines: the process of inactivating the live virus, either chemically or through the application of heat, can change the way the body reacts to it. But with a lack of good data from the company itself it is hard to tell. The biggest blot against Sinovac remains the real-world data from Chile."

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...cine-programme

Lack of good data from the manufacturer plus poor production controls. It 's not like China is known for quality control. Maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe it's a role of the dice if you are given a dose from a good batch or not.

The real world results are certainly becoming apparent and that is very interesting @rechu. I agree the whole world needs mRNA vaccines if we are to get anywhere near on top of this virus and stop giving it a chance to mutate.

So we are now not to call the variants by the countries they first appeared in, so I'll say the Delta virus is now the main one in UK and also India so you'll know what I am talking about!

I read in India they are aiming to drop the 2nd dose of AstraZeneca which is insanity. One dose only gives 33% protection. 2 will give 60% but really they need Pfizer with 88%

Cases are rising again here. I have mixed feelings. I have heard it's in the teenage age group mostly and they will have mild disease. Hospitalizations and deaths are low so far. But it's not good the virus is growing and will have chances to mutate further.

We're supposed to have all restrictions removed on 21st. Really not sure that's wise at the minute.

A week after second AZ jab and still not feeling great. Bouts of acute tiredness becoming less. NHS helpline advised me to take it easy and take paracetamol when necessary. Everyone is different and will react or not, to first, second or both jabs. My cousin is a good example, she had to take time off work (don't know which she had).

UK Government not opening up travel. Have just announced no additions to "green list". It's half-term here in UK this week. Will be interesting to see new case figures. In my opinion, celebrating zero new cases the other day is premature!

Over 8,000 new cases again reported today and 232 deaths. It's been at least a few weeks since I remember that many deaths. 16 new quarantines were announced. 332 active cases in my area, but we were spared.


The US announced who they will donate vaccines too on the continent - Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, and Brazil. Nothing for either us or Uruguay who have been the best customers for Sinovac, I assume it's because we have "vaccines".

They started using one dose CanSino vaccine and there have been various cases of people fainting after getting it. Also, AstraZeneca is now only for men over 45 after a clotting incident in a younger guy.

This one falls in the how stupid can you be file, Covidiot edition. A former soccer player, pretty well known - he played in Europe and on teams here, had a party with 22 people at his apartment the other night. Gatherings over 5 are not permitted in phase 2. He was arrested and held most of the next day until a court hearing the next afternoon. Another person at the party was a journalist that reads the afternoon news on one of the big channels. The main channels here are tasked with trying to promote responsible behavior as far as Covid. Many times he has reported on clandestine parties, concerts, etc. Not surprisingly, they didn't hesitate to fire him. The guy that held the party is now a sports commentator. He hasn't been on screen the last few days. There's no word if he has been fired so far.

Everyone is sick of the restrictions, but risking your job for a few hours of fun just seems stupid - especially when they don't hesitate to make an example of public figures flaunting the rules.

Peru instead of the second Brazil, I meant.

I just read something disturbing. We have logged 180 breakthrough Covid cases in the past few weeks. These are people who caught Covid despite being at least two weeks out after their second shot. There were fewer than 3k Covid cases during the same time period so it looks like about 6% of people who tested positive were fully vaxxed.


This is in an area that could be over 95% mRNA. We received a little J&J but I don't think much. The state is not saying which vaccine these people had. 60% of the eligible population is vaccinated which is about 50% of the total population.


I am just surprised the breakthrough numbers are so high. Or maybe they aren't? .05% of the vaccinated population has tested positive for Covid. That sounds better. I suspect the breakthrough case number is an underestimate, however. How many vaccinated people would think to get a test?

Hmm, obviously 0 would be great, but no vaccine is 100%, and considering we've never used mRNA vaccines before, it's pretty amazing they are having the efficacy they do. A year ago, there was hope of maybe developing something that was 50% effective. Are these people showing symptoms or are they asymptomatic? Has anyone been hospitalized?

The numbers keep changing here, but the last I read about 37% of the hospitalized were fully vaccinated here. Right now they are using about 85% Sinovac. It was higher earlier, so I am betting 90% of fully vaccinated people had Sinovac and they are still ending up in the hospital more than you would hope. People are dying with 2 doses of Sinovac. We are constantly told that the vaccine at least keeps keep you from dying and out of the hospital. Of course, what the government does not say is what % of the hospitalized got Pfizer and how many got Sinovac.

Today they reported 8,273 new cases. 20% of those were fully vaccinated, that means 1,655 people tested positive when fully vaccinated. In perspective, the 0.05% you cite doesn't look bad at all.

I couldn't figure out how many of the vaxxed Covid positive people had serious symptoms. As far as I know, only one such person has been hospitalized, but that was from an article a couple of weeks ago. There was a label at the top of the breakthrough case number stating that it did not represent all breakthrough cases because they don't have time to follow up with everyone. At a federal level, I believe most of the breakthrough cases they track are only related to people who were hospitalized.

I don't know how telling the .05 number is. There is not a lot of virus circulating right now and that's due in part to the vaccine but also to the time of year, people still being cautious, and low population density. I would like to know more about the 6% of people who are testing positive. Did they get their vaccine a while ago? Does it wear off quickly? Did they have less immunity built up due to age? 6% is better than 20% but how is this pandemic going to end when huge swathes of the population won't get any vaccine by choice and so many parts of the world still have no access at all?


37% of those hospitalized being vaxxed is truly dreadful. It's depressing. It is hard to see an end in sight. I have to remember that other pandemics have ended.

Yeah, there really is so much we don't know yet, especially how long the effect of the vaccine lasts and how it works in older people with weaker immune systems. I know Uruguay has reserved Pfizer for people 70+ because of lack of information about Sinovac in that age group. Here they initially said 60+ would get Pfizer for similar reasons. Four days later, they backtracked and started giving it to the elderly because there wasn't enough Pfizer coming in.

I remember at a press conference the Health Undersecretary was asked how long Sinovac's effects would last. She said they weren't sure but similar vaccines like the flu vaccine usually last about 4-6 months. What does that mean for the first people that were vaccinated here? I have seen some anecdotal reports of people who have gotten Sinovac doing antibody test having no or very few antibodies. Of course now I am wondering how common that is.


37% is terrible, but our Health Minister says it's good news and we are turning the corner. It is absolutely depressing. The last few days I have been in a mood over this because I don't know how we get out of this if the government refuses to take a look at what what they are doing and make changes. If the case increases in my area keep up as they have the last few days, we are headed to 500 active cases. That's with 51% of the target population being fully vaccinated and 75% having one dose.


There's an interesting article here:

Early adopters of Chinese vaccines see case surges; China plows ahead anyway | Ars Technica

Oh, and on the topic of quadrupling down on Sinovac, the Public Health Institute is looking for funding to carry out a longer term study. Why should we have to fund studies for the manufacturer? The tone of comments on the article is that the government is searching for any way it can to prove that the vaccine is great to not have to admit that Sinovac is the weakest vaccine out there. I wonder if the study will see the light of day if the results aren't good.

Man, that Health Minister must be smoking something. On what planet is 37% a good number in this case? Public funding for a study wouldn't be the worst thing *if* the study were unbiased.


The comments on that article were interesting. I was not aware that the Sputnik V vaccine was actually different products with the same name.

Maybe the Health Minister is high in his press conferences. That would explain a lot!


Hmm, on the subject of how long Sinovac lasts:

There have been discussions over whether inoculated people will require a booster in the future. Chinese health authorities said they will determine when to administer booster shots for COVID-19 based on analysis of early vaccinated groups to combat the threat of mutant strains.

Data from people vaccinated six months ago is now being analyzed, and preliminary results showed that the antibody levels for about half of them are still good, Shao Yiming, a leading physician and immunologist from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, told media earlier.


I know that even Pfizer and Moderna have mentioned the possibility of needing a booster at some time in the future. However, half of people not having good antibody levels after only 6 months is pretty pathetic. Global Times is a news publication of the Chinese Communist Party. If they are admitting this, I wonder, what aren't they admitting?

I think of here. We started the mass vaccination campaign in February so the first people were fully vaccinated in March. Six months from then is coming up pretty soon.

I've read that the antibody levels may not be that important, that the body makes T-cells that fight infection. I wonder if this suggests that the antibody levels *are* important. OMG this sucks if the vaccines are going to wear off after such a brief period of time. Chile is the clinical trial for how long immunity lasts.


Reading this article, it seems that mRNA immunity is still just as strong after six months and this is a better test of that than just measuring antibodies: How Long Does Immunity from COVID-19 Vaccination Last?

I have heard there will be mRNA boosters out this year targeting specific mutations. I still want to see a WPA style program to make these vaccines and n95s.

@hvert - I am thinking this announcement is specifically about the deactivated virus vaccines Sinopharm and Sinovac. I wouldn't be surprised that due to their basic mechanism that antibody levels could be more important than with the more cutting edge vaccine technologies.

@rechu ahh, that makes sense, though I wish it didn't.

Well, back to lockdown. FML. We were the one phase 2 "island" surrounded buy all areas that were in lockdown, plus cases are pretty high. So, I am not surprised. The benefits of the "mobility pass" have been pulled way back too, so that if you are in lockdown, there is really no benefit of using it.

I think everyone anticipated it. We went to the supermarket yesterday and it looked ransacked, like people had been stocking up to prepare.

The Health Minister gave another rambling interview where he spouted a bunch of crap and tried to evade answering any real questions. He needs to go. First he tried to say that Sinovac helps prevent transmission and then he said that none of the vaccines are proving to prevent transmission. He also admitted that they don't normally meet with epidemiological experts when making decisions, just the usual suspects from the Health Ministry. No specialists whatsoever. Really it's not enough for him to resign. The president will just choose another yes man. This whole government has to go. I don't see any other solution.

How can you tell restrictions are being lifted in the city? There's broken beer bottles everywhere Ugh people are terrible.

I'm slowly daring to look forward to my first concert next month. It's outdoors, with assigned area's for 2 or 4 people and plenty of distance in between. Negative covid-test required. Just hope I don't test positive on the day imagine getting a false positive (because I've basically been a hermit for over a year, my chances of actually catching corona are very very small)

Still no vaccination in sight. The website just immediately shows "no appointments available". I keep checking my mailbox hoping to get an invitation from my GP but nothing yet. I don't know if I should have contacted them? But I'm sure enough people are already harrassing practices to get a vaccination, I don't want to add to their burden. I guess they are still only inviting people with underlying illness.

@BreakForTheLight. I hope you are able to go to your concert. Fingers crossed on that and on the vaccination front.

I just had a really bad thought. If it's true that about half of people have low antibodies after 6 months with Sinovac and if that is important for protection for people who received the vaccine, which it seems to be, we may be in for a bad few months. The elderly were vaccinated first. So, they will be in the first groups at risk to experience lower antibody levels. And, it sounds like older people tend to have a weaker immune response to vaccination overall. Not all, but it's more common. Add in that winter is about to start and people will be spending time indoors, often in poorly ventilated areas, especially in the south where winters are more extreme. We could be in for a very bad next few months.

What will the government's spin be then if the elderly start getting sick and dying in increasing numbers?

Yes that's certainly a valid concern.

Even here in UK, where we're using a mixture of mRNA and virus vector vaccines there has been recently a note of caution from a leading mathematician from UCL (University College London) that some of the earliest recipients may have fading immunity. At the moment it's conjecture I believe but a possibility. We still haven't been told about autumn boosters, whether that will be happening.

Who knows at this stage what will happen next.