[AzulOscuro]

Specially when you are a naive in social relations and when you are unable to read people properly.
I was told not so long ago, follow your natural instinct. How to know if it's the natural instinct the one is talking to you and not your paranoia.

That's it, I'm very very confused. This is the price you have to pay for relating to people.

All I can day about the topic is the time. I mean as long as you are with the person you will know her/his better. I'm neither sure about it.

Is it possible that I want to control what it cannot be controlled?

[kaliope]

it takes me a long time to trust anyone. i will listen to those instincts...good, dont touch with a ten foot pole but i will still give people a chance until they have proven themselves regardless of what i have felt. some people get into the circle of trust sooner based on those instincts and some have to work a little harder.

[AzulOscuro]

I also give people credit. A lot of credit. That's why I wonder if I do the right thing. I like to think that people is nice bc I do think that they, in general, are nice. The thing is that I see other people who seem to read people very quickly.
I don't know if it is a question of experience, a natural ability or both.
Thank you so much for your reply.

[AzulOscuro]

I'm now noticing my mistake. How the hell asking in an avoidant forum how to trust people when we have it so hard.

Yesterday, I was looking some pictures in the internet and I rushed into a quote that said moré of less: if you're guts tell you that something is wrong, it's because something is indeed wrong. I haven't got guts.

[ck2d]

I'm doing training on how to trust people. The first lesson was, look at someone you trust, and why. Even if I don't trust them completely, if it's more than 50%.

The example I looked at was my mechanic. 1) I've been going to him for years. 2) When he could screw me over, he almost always goes the opposite way, and helps more than he needs to. 3) When he does something that's a little less than kosher - like using a used part instead of a new one, which is fine - he always tells me, he's always up front about it.

I've just started, and that's a weak example (I have a very strong one, with a lot of emotion behind it, but I think I'll keep it to myself). But that's where we're starting, looking at what I do and know.

It was also recommended that I read this book:

It describes how to learn about and trust your gut instinct. My therapist is a childhood trauma specialist, and usually works with children or their parents, so it is a little off topic. I haven't read it myself, so I can't say much about it. But it was my homework.

Edit: The link didn't work? Or at least I don't see it. The book is called Protecting the Gift.

[Kat20]

I really suck at judging people. I care and give people the benefit of the doubt but always end up burned. My sister always tells me "it doesn't matter to a hungry lion if you are a vegetarian " so I end up on running scenarios and situations by her or a few other who have proven to be there and trustworthy. They do tell me I need to listen to my gut and learn to trust it, but when I think I do I always hear wow you really don't know how to read people do you? So it is very hard!!!!

[ck2d]

I started reading that book. First of all, the author doesn't pull any punches with his examples. It can be triggering.

I can see why my therapist recommended it though. Her theory - and it's a good one - is that the people who abused us screwed up our internal monitoring. Our instinct about who was good to us, vs who was bad to us, got blown to bits. This book is all about recognizing our instincts about people, especially those who would do us wrong.

Firstly, if you are doing any of these things, then the person in question is not someone who is trustworthy, and if you think they are, you are in denial and ignoring your instincts while you try to explain why they deserve another chance:
rationalization - it's ok when you look at it this way
justification - this happened, which explains why they'll act that way
minimization - it's not so bad
excuse-making - it's not what it looks like
refusal - I don't care what the facts say, I'm going to stick by them anyway

The book also talks about how useless worry is. The example he used was, if you see that lava is moving toward you, you're not going to stand there and worry about what might happen if it reaches you, you're going to run away. Worry is a sign that you are ignoring your instinct. It evolves from the conflict between instinct and inaction. If you are worrying about something, then do something about it, in a nutshell. Either get to the bottom of it, realize there is no reason to worry, and calm yourself. Or, if there is a valid reason for concern, take action to correct for it so the end result will not be negative.

So the first concept, about denial, is this. If you constantly deny your instinct that someone is toxic for you, make excuses for them, etc, then you will lose the instinct. It will be come too muddled to be valid anymore. Honor your instinct and you will be able to tell who is trustworthy and who is not.

The second concept expands on that. If you don't worry about someone, but rather actively find out if your worries have any basis, then you will be able to know if they are trustworthy or not.

[AzulOscuro]

Thank you, CK2d.
I agree with you. It's difficult for an avoidant, we have the urge to connect with people that the last option is always the obvious.

[ck2d]

The reason people don't trust is they don't follow their instincts.
The fear of people is the fear that we can't predict their behavior.
We choose not to predict their behavior, because we won't follow our instincts.

The author said:
The human being is the only prey in nature that cooperates in it's own vicimization. Imagine an impala in Africa looking at a lion and thinking, "But this is a nice lion."

Here are signs that someone is actively trying to deceive you:

forced teaming - talking in terms of "we" like "we're in this together - establishes premature trust

charm and niceness - if someone actively tries to charm you, the act is always directed toward a goal - niceness does not equal goodness, it is a strategy of social interaction for people seeking control

too many details - the liar thinks that if they throw enough details at you, you'll forget the context, and the original lie will slip by

typecasting - "you're probably one of those people who..." - a slight insult, with the goal for you to refute them, in order to engage you and establish premature trust

loan sharking - trying to do something for you so you will "owe" them

unsolicited promise - a promise is not a guarantee, all it does is show the speaker's desire to convince you of something

discounting the word NO - if someone ignores you when they turn you down, go on as if you haven't said anything, they are trying to control you

[AzulOscuro]

Thank you again. Very helpfull. And it comes to me very well now.
I'm gonna print this post out.

[Snap66]

Trust or learning to trust first starts between infancy and 18 months.
If we pass successfully through this stage we have some kind of confidence that life will be basically ok... then we are ready to start the next stage of life.

If we fail to experience trust we turn inward bc we are frustrated bc our needs are not met... then I guess we move forward onto the next stage of life without the learned skills of trust and poorly equipped for early childhood.

I want to trust people and wanting to trust means i think they are worthy, but i simply cant allow my self to be vulnerable like that. I know that sounds obnoxious or rude but i don't want to put my hope and faith in someone i like or care about only to be let down by them.
I don't want someone i like or care about to let me down bc thats the past emotions coming back to haunt me, so i depend on myself which puts no undue pressure on anyone.

This all goes back to parents and caregivers where the infant wants and has the urge to trust, but to be let down time and time again by loved ones takes its tole quickly and turning inward is the new learned behavior (depend on yourself).. plus i'm not sure how this fits in but i don't want good people i care for to fail.

[ck2d]

Good point. I've shifted this discussion from trusting people to figuring out who you definitely cannot trust. That gets rid of a lot of people, but actually doesn't address who and how to trust. Perhaps my next lesson will have more insight...

[ck2d]

Here's another thing to think about:
the difference between appreciating someone and flattering them.

Flattery is used by untrustworthy people; appreciation is honest.

"Flattery is counterfeit. What is the difference between appreciation and flattery? That is simple. One is sincere and the other insincere. One comes from the heart out; the other from the teeth out. One is unselfish and the other selfish. One is universally admired; the other universally condemned."

So appreciation would be, I liked your point and I'm going to try to learn from it. Flattery would be, you must be a handsome man to be so smart. See the difference? The first person is trustworthy; the second is being "nice," which is a way to control you. Being "nice" is a different form of loan-sharking. Instead of giving you something to make you owe them, they are giving you flattery in order to make you owe them. Those people are untrustworthy.

[Trosky6708]

I enjoyed this thread, as I have debated the same thing. I came to the conclusion that since all humanbeings are fallible creatures you shouldn't trust anyone. No one has your best interest at heart but yourself. Instead of trust I think more about a persons loyalty as a reflection of their character. Is that person usually loyal to his word. Loyal to his friend who is stranded & needs a ride. Loyal to his or her customers. These are just my quick thoughts

[AzulOscuro]

I has forgotten this thread. I think Snap and Trosky's last posts are much closer to reality than I am. It's better protecting yourself.
Lower the expectations towards people is the key.
I discovered that I idealize people, so the dissapointing are always for sure.
One of the main things that made me avoid world.