Pretty cool thought

I stuck a trigger symbol on this in case someone misinterprets.

I was thinking about energy and Quantum stuff today. Quantum theory says that a particle can have both the property of exiting in waves and in matter. When an observer looks at a particle, it collapses and is seen in wave form. It is said that the observer's mind influences the activity of matter.

OK, so about human bodies and energies. I feel as if the "soul" (for lack of a better word) is energy waves. When the body dies, supposedly the soul's energy leaves the body and dissapates into the air. So, What I want to know is the purpose of having a body so that the self can reside there? Is the sense of self a part of the soul energy or is it something created by the soul energy being contained within a body and having chemical reactions with the biology of a body. In this case is it our choice to die? Does the soul just want to move on? Does the self no longer satisfy the soul so it moves on, or do the chemical processes that create the self simply play themselves out? Is the soul ready to move on or is it forced to? Like in Quantum theory, do we change the property of the soul when we begin to observe it?

OK, so about mental illness. Are the chemical processes sped up so that the body gives out and the soul needs to move on sooner, or are the chemical processes of the body so intense and different from "normal" processes that the sense of self is intensified and conflicts with the soul?
Or like in Quantum theory, are we changed by the observations of ourselves, our p-docs and our T-docs? In that case, do we choose our mental illness or is it thrust upon up by our observers?

Is it possible to slow down the chemical processes so that the self and the soul can exist without conflict? Is that what meds are for? And if we and our observers decide the meds are working, do they begin to work?

Does this mean that everything is an illusion of physics and nothing actually exists at all? Could htis be the underlying issue behind paranoia? By others observing and looking at us, our solid matter collapses and we exist only in a wave (energy) state? In that case, wouldn't the body begin to die a little each time someone observes and judges us? In order to preserve the body and therefore the self, shouldn't we all remain isolated?

Am I making any sense or am I ranting?

I wish I could express myself better.

Any thoughts? Ideas?

I'm bursting! Let's talk!

you're doing some pretty intense thinking there, aren't you???
unfortunately i don't have any answers for you! my brain can't follow yours today. but i'm glad you're feeling good & exploring different theories. maybe something good will come of it.

This is very interesting! I have some experience with paranoia and what you are bringing into light may be at least part of the reason we are so uncomfortable being observed. What would happen then to the people I observe observing me? Let’s say I’m paranoid and feel powerless because I think people are watching me. I had an experience where I actually saw people (and aliens) observing me. Instead of walking around with my head down I decided to look up and observe them. They seemed quite agitated that I did so but in doing so I feel as if I took some of their power away and took back some of mine. This could relate to what you are talking about. Perhaps that is why people like me choose to isolate and live a reclusive life. I don't know.

I don't know. It's like a self preservation thing. But if the self is the ego, ultimately, and the purpose of biological life is to house the soul, wouldn't the ego not matter? So maybe people, by observing each other are enabling the soul to exist without the use of a body or ego. If that's true, it's the other side of the argument and we should all be walking around staring at one another. (that is if the ego would step aside and make soul existence more acceptable. But all peoples of Earth [or beyond] have to be in agreement to live on a soul-based level) I think that might be a big problem that most haven't discovered. (We should get world leaders to read this. LOL) "Mental Illness" must open us up to these things.

I think we are opened up to this. I have a windshield analogy I use to describe how I feel and what I believe happened to me. It is like the ego is as a windshield and in my case through psychosis that windshield was not only cracked but smashed through allowing the force of the universe, God or whatever you choose to call it, to rush in. I had a collapse of ego and my boundaries were all screwed up because I had no sense of “me” but instead had a union with all that is. I think this is why many who experience psychosis go all prophet because they feel that union. And when those boundaries are dropped we become more sensitive to the world around us and perhaps are more aware of when people are observing us because in a sense we are them as well.

Yes, in a really Quantum physics sort of way. Very cool.

Thanks, Mick and Susan.

How about others? I really feel like I have something here. It could lead us to the meaning of life or something.

Let me know if it's all dreck and I'll STFU. (shut the **** up. LOL)

Very, very cool, BNLsMOM! I have not heard such thinking since I was a student in college. I do believe perception has an impact on the self and on the sellf/body of others, and that, in paranoia, we attract that which we believe and that it tends to dissipate when we cease to believe in it. Of course that is not quite what you are saying. I also was enthralled by MickG's response, from which you quote above, relating to the sensory gating theory, and how the perceptual filter breaks down in psychosis, so that we are better able to receive sensory input which is normally filtered out. A fascinating discussion. You are a bit ahead of me, but I would very much like to catch up. I have quite a complex book called Psychosis and Spirituality, with a different author contributing a chapter on the subject. It is intense and fascinating. Thank you for your mesmerizing post, and I hope that we will meet again. Isn't it a blessing to think outside our small problems to the grandeur of the universe? In partial answer to your question, I think that negative perceptions or observations/judgements of us may move along the death of the body/self, whereas positive thoughts have the opposite impact. In facination - billieJ

Makes you wonder what the reason for the filter is in the first place. I suspect that not everything that comes through my busted filter is stuff I want or should have much to do with...

I wonder if the attempt to filter is the ego's attempt at self- preservation. The things you do not want to get through that are getting through are things that hurt the ego, and so you perceive them as negative. Conversely, if you enjoy a certain feeling or thought, those things are feeding your ego. (not in a conceited, big-headed way. I suppose the word soothing would be more accurate here.)

I think if we can find a way for the soul and the self (ego) to co-exist, we might have a cure for mental illness. (!?!)

Then if everyone is interconnected in a Quantum physics sort of way, there would be no reason for paranoia or for suspicion.

Again, everyone on earth (and beyond) would have to agree, and that is quite a task to try to perform in our life time.

Perhaps, the internet will be everlasting and our words will reach future generation and each generation will evolve until all peoples are in agreement with each other. I mean that in an end of war sort of way, not a creepy utopian society sort of way.

Perhaps the formula for "Peace on Earth and Goodwill toward Man"? Very appropriate this time of year, I think.

But, heck, I am just a suburban mom and housewife.

"Perhaps, the internet will be everlasting and our words will reach future generation and each generation will evolve until all peoples are in agreement with each other. I mean that in an end of war sort of way, not a creepy utopian society sort of way."

OOOOh, yeah, it's good you added the caveat there, I was starting to get Madeleine d'leangel flash backs there; you know, "A Wrinkle in Time". Well, suburban housewives aren't all that dumb, you know. Sometimes I think they are the only ones with time to think... Huggs!

Yeah, it would be way boring if everyone thought and acted the same way. (and like in all good utopian society novels, there would be someone who would be a free thinker and point out to the readers that it is actually a distopian society because there would be an entire sect of underground free thinkers who would be left out of the politics of the whole thing, and one group asserting its force to get people to be living in the "one right way," thus leading to a revolt and again to a society full of war.)

Oh, and I obviously have WAY too much time to think.

More talking! I am jumping out of my skin because I want to have more discussion about this! No one in real life would want to talk about this except my T who I won't see until tomorrow.

I read a really interesting book a few years ago that help to make sense of a lot of things. It is entitled Science and the Akashic Field by Ervin Laszlo. You can do a search and read about it at amazon. The book blew me away and I loaned it to a couple of friends and it blew them away also. What Laszlo calls the A-field is the zero point field, but it is not just an energy field but also an information field. Laszlo said in altered states of consciousness we can access this information but if we are not psychologically mature enough to deal with that broad band of information psychosis can result. It is just a really fascinating book if you get a chance to check it out.
Regards, Shoe

(((BNLsMOM)))

I'll try to put together a coherent response, if I understand what you're trying to say...

First thing I'll say:
I believe that the human organism works towards healing naturally. Our bodies are designed to repair themselves, and we see this in small ways every day. If dirt gets in our eyes, our eyes will start to water. If we get cut, the blood will start to clot, etc. All physical responses to being harmed, that our bodies put into action w/o any direction from our conscious mind.

We are changed by being observed, but ultimately what we view as 'reality' is created within our own mind. I sometimes think that therapy works *because* our pain is observed and T offers what we need to heal (receiving compassion). Just by having our pain witnessed, it can be very healing. That said, we don't have to accept the observations of others. A person in a state of grief could be convinced they have clinical depression, or the person could believe they are just grieving and that the depression will pass. The state of mind of the 'patient' *does* impact the ability of the 'patient' to heal.

The placebo effect is probably the best example of how the state of mind can physically impact the state of the physical body.

I think the filter of the ego is there to teach us lessons. (This is the area the moves away from science to personal philosophy.) I can look at almost any event in my life and find within it a lesson. A lesson that teaches me about myself and about what it is like to be a human being. It is through experience that we learn the most, so it makes sense that the ego would direct us to particular situations where we can learn. The problem comes when people get stuck in a learning cycle and keep repeating the same lessons over and over again.

IMHO, the single thing that most of us need to heal is love. Love for ourselves being the most important and difficult to achieve. If we value who we are, then our bodies/spirit/mind is more likely to *want* to heal. We will be more willing to accept loving help from friends, professionals, and family members. We will be more forgiving of ourselves, and be more open to learning if any situation is approached from a place of loving acceptance.

I think the soul and the ego existing w/o conflict is called enlightenment in spiritual circles. Yes, it is possible. I'm not sure about the role of meds, but I can tell you that by quieting the ego, it is possible to get in touch with deeper aspects of ourselves and of the moment that we are actually living in.

So much of our mental chatter is often about the past or the future. We worry about what we did do, or what we are going to have to do, but very little attention is given to what is happening *right NOW*. Echkart Tolle gives a great explanation in his book "The Power of Now".

Scientific studies have shown that the average person, when looking at a picture, only sees about 20% of what is in the picture. This is because we have pre-conceived notions in our mind (ego) about what to expect, or because our minds are not fully present. When you start to think of these things, you realize how much the ego impacts our ideas of reality. If we are only seeing 20%, on average, of what is conscentually 'real', then what would happen if we swung our view to consider other things in the picture?

Now I'm not sure if I'm making any sense or not.
You post some very interesting questions, BNLsMOM...thank you for getting my mental juices flowing!

Wow, wow, wow! Thank you! This is good stuff here...

I'm too jiggered right now. I'll write something once I get some of this physical jumpiness out of me.....

I this thread!

OK, we need love to heal, but Ithink we also need joy. Not the surface, fluttery happiness that can come and go but the deep, warm, nourishing joy that comes with love and with a realization of life's value and beauty. Love is a fantastic way to get in touch with this, but it can also outlast any individual's love. It can still be there in sadness, keep grief from descending into depression. Joy is what I remember hearing saving my husband's grandfather, when he was told on his death bed (the first one) that they found another series of old Friesian texts for him to study. (OK, he was unique) There. My five cents. huggs all.