Sui thoughts - but will not carry thro

I'm just wondering how you guys deal with the depression that gets you so low you kind of contemplate sui. I am a very logical person, and I cannot bring myself to actually carry it through (On OD experience was more than a wakeup call for me)

However, can these thoughts still be considered dangerous? How do you get ride of them?
You feel so down, dejected and useless, you know you will not carry out an attempt, but you just reach out for help - you want someone to do something and help you.

Right, so from a health system point of view you may not appear a risk, but does this mean they just ignore you...?

I usually have.these thoughts alomst every day. I try to remind myself, that if certain people are allowed to live, despite their atrocious crimes, why then do I feel like I do not derserve to live? Plus, I think about what would happen to my husband/cats and I know that they would not be better off w/o me.

Well, the same reasons that keep you going, are the thoughts that keep me going.
It's just so damn hard to keep going...

The last time in Feb I didn't because my husband was supportive and I didn't want to hurt him. Usually I'm stable. But when I get depressed, I usually try. I'm a different kind of bipolar. I'm usually stable. But if I stray one way or the other I go psychotic or sucidial.

I try to think of how my actions affect my loved ones. My little girl is my life and I would never ever hurt her; committing suicide would devastate her. I am a mother now and going through hell for your children comes with the territory. It works for me everytime. Not to mention the thought of never seeing her again nearly stops me from breathing every time I think of it. It's like a mini panic attack. Even writing it now, I am crying. I would be ruining her life. No matter how bad I get during her life will always be better for her than not being here at all. If I did get worse I would separate myself from her so I wouldn't hurt her, but still find a way to be in her life.

Also, my dad told me that it takes more courage to fight against our natural instinct to survive. If I have the strength to kill myself, than I surely have the strength to turn around and fight back. It would actually be easier to fight to live than fight to die. Hope that makes sense and helps you when you are in need of encouragement.

onom - thanks so much! I've heard your dad's statement in an earlier post you made, and it struck me then.
It's not that I'm contemplating it - I'm just so at the edge, that if I didn't have the intellect or rationalisation, I would have followed through.
Does this make me less serious a situation? Does this make my pain, anger, loneliness, frustration.... seem that much less than someone who actually follows through?

I have those thoughts almost daily as well. But I have 3 boys and the desire (sometimes) to have more that keeps me going. I always think how it would affect them and I know my oldest couldnt handle it at all so I just hang in there one more day. Kind of like in AA one day at a time only different. I truly hope you start feeling better soon!

sms'd T to tell her I wasn't coping. Didnt tell her it's basically S* intentions without the strength nor logical to follow thro. Just that I wasnt coping and that i was stopping my meds.
She just said I need to decide if i want a new pdoc, or otherwise i need to see my existing pdoc and get my meds changed.

I know med changes take time, but if you feel yourself worse off, 3 weeks after starting them, I don't see the point in carrying on. They're not working. I am all over the place. It's just past 7PM here, and I'm going to bed - the only place I can feel safe.
The Klonopin has knocked me a little. I was kind of hoping T could have a few words of encouragement, but she's professional (Other than - "I'm sorry you are feeling like this"). But I am prepared to work with her.
I just want release from this pain - it's like a boil that needs to be popped - i just don't know who has the power or knowledge to do it for me.

I am so finished right now. I don't know how to carry on.
thanks so much to my PC family - this is the first time I've logged on from home after work in a long time - a last cry to find some peace, answers, support, encouragment...

As a person diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, suicidal thoughts come to me quite often when I'm triggered. (I'm working on my coping skills though!).

What I have noticed is that these thoughts come to me more often when I'm depressed, down, or bored. So I try to keep myself busy by DOING things, which is really amazing at helping. When I just lay in bed and ruminate about negative thoughts, then the suicidal thoughts start to seep in.

Stressful situations will also sometimes trigger suicidal thoughts, so I am currently working on my coping skills. Working on how to be able to handle stressful situations.

(((((((Sugahorse)))))))
You are a strong person, no matter how depressed and down you may feel. You will get through this tough time. And for some people, these suicidal thoughts are chronic...as in, they will never truly go away. But certain coping skills can help so we can get through it. I hope you will find the coping skills that work for you.

For me it's different. My body chemistry is weird--pretty much all rules about time frames for meds aren't even relative with me. Klonopin acts in me with in1-2 mins...supposed to take 20-30 mins. With all other meds, I feel the effects and know if they'll work within two days of starting them. I've never had to wait it out. I have, just to see if I'm wrong, but however I feel on day 2 or 3 is how I will always feel with any med. Although with Topamax, I didn't give it any time, but it really messed me up, so I don't count that one. I'm grateful I don't have to wait weeks or months to know how or if meds will work, but bear in mind that sometimes you actually might know sooner if it makes you worse off. But that's my weirdo opinion based on my weirdo body chemistry. Med changes from one to another can be awful, though. Then you never know what if exactly causing the problem.

Suga, I hope you are ok. I'm useless for more words right now, but I am thinking about you and I hope you are doing ok right now.

Hi, Sugahorse,

I'm very sorry indeed to hear from you that you're suffering from s******l thoughts. That is the very reason why I'm here on PC. I've had these intrusive, unwanted thoughts constantly for the past three years. And I'm the same as you are: I know I'm probably not going to "do it," but the thoughts plague me all the time. They break in on other trains of thought, they break in when I'm working, they break in at any time they want, which is several times a day. And they're so painful! Unfortunately, I haven't had enough money either to pay for health insurance or to pay a therapist cash. So no T is involved. I have to do it on my own. I mentioned it to my Pdoc, who I see only for medication, and he had a ferociously hostile reaction. At least I learned that I didn't have the freedom to leave my wife alone. I know they say that (references to family who will miss you) to anyone who mentions s*****e, but in my case it's true. My wife is a very dependent kind of person, utterly without street smarts and unable by herself to deal with important situations. We've been together for forty years and she is not putting on an act.

But that doesn't "solve" the problem of the intrusive thoughts. I used to drink a lot to fog myself up and pass out to get away from the thoughts. Then I stopped drinking, even though they were still there. With the passage of time, they have decreased. Why? I don't know. Perhaps they're generated by the pain, rather than the other way around, and when the pain decreases, the thoughts decrease. I have no idea why the pain would decrease by itself. So I can at least conclude that if I hold on long enough, things will change by themselves, whether in a good or bad way, I don't know. When they come now, I still try to go to sleep. They do not get in the way of my sleeping. If we had more income (we're quite poor) I'd probably drink more. If my Pdoc prescribes painkillers for me, the thoughts definitely are reduced. But he'll only do that now and then.

In standing back and reviewing the entire situation (which for me began three years ago), I think I'd have to sum it up as follows: I carry with me (and have since very early childhood) a tremendous load of misery/despair/ desolation/hopelessness that forces me to spend most of my time and energy ignoring it, at which I've been successful for most of my life. Certain recent life experiences (mainly poverty) have overwhelmed my capacity to avoid dealing with that emotional package (which has always been highly resistant to any form of therapy), and the closer they are to consciousness, the more I want to k**l myself. The misery inside me is quite comparable to real physical pain, since heavyduty painkillers will kill that pain too. But I've also found out, serendipitously, that my trying to help others in pain helps me too. I found that out here on PC. Yes, helping others helps reduce my urge to get rid of myself.

I'm afraid I have no magic wand other than opiates, which are hard to get (legally) and dangerous (addiction is no joke). But from time to time things will change on their own, and if you can figure out what's really causing the pain that's causing the thoughts, you really have a hope of getting rid of the thoughts. Pain causes the thoughts. What's really hurting you? Really. That's where I'd look, if I were younger and had time, which I'm not and which I don't. I know the thoughts are awful, and I know it feels as if the thoughts cause the pain. But it really is the other way around.

More later. Take care.

That's ok! Can totally relate. There are many many times when I go to bed not because I'm tired, but because I'm just sick of dealing with my life/being me. It's sure better than staying up just to torment oneself over it!
Sugahorse, this also jumped out at me: "Does this make me less serious a situation? Does this make my pain, anger, loneliness, frustration.... seem that much less than someone who actually follows through?"
No no no, a thousand times no!!! I sometimes struggle with this, then realize that just because I didn't doesn't mean that one who has was at any different emotional place. I definitely *do* have major reactions to people who get all judgey. Just ask the lady I nearly jumped out my chair at the other day... . That is to say those that have not been *in* that space have a very faulty understanding of what it is. When one has been there, absolutely regardless of whether they went through or not, there is a common understanding. It is a VERY serious situation, and no one with half a brain takes it lightly. It's more the understanding that our brains can take us places where reason and logic cease to exist. Which is something that those who have not been there cannot understand.
I have not been able to talk with anyone about some of the places my mind's been. Even here. The fact that I can realize that those were very f**** up points is something at least. When you say that you don't have the strength or logic, that is good. Not coping. It sucks, but at least realize that you recognize it for what it is. Ride it out. Know that we are here with you.

Sugahorse, this is the scariest part of this illness for me. I spent a week in lock down in a psych hospital due to my actions and that was one of the scariest experiences I had. Unfortunately when I'm experiencing major depression my mind does go there. I say "STOP" in my mind because I tend to ruminate over that and this breaks up the thought pattern.

Talking to my therapist helps. A med tweak may be necessary and after about a year of dealing with major depression most of the time I requested a med change from my pdoc. I wish I had asked sooner. Doing something that brings me joy, i.e. spending time with my horse. I see you're a horse lover too and I find they are one of the most sensitive animals and can really raise one's spirit. Try not to isolate, but spend time with people that are supportive, not energy drainers.

I hope tomorrow brings a better day for you.

I my friends I think have had enough of my moans, of supporting me. I have no real people that matter.
My boyfriend decided he'd rather going drinking last night.
I've had to stop my meds - the dose was so low and they weren't helping anyway.
Tomorrow i see my pdoc and I need an action plan - failing which I refuse to leave her rooms.
I feel terrible today - the deep depression, plus abandonment by my boyfriend, lack of support, lack of respect, loneliness...
I was very close to not coming back to work after a presentation I HAD to do, just go home, take a bunch of sleeping tabs and sleeeeeeeep.
It's so hollow and lonely being in this place right now.
I managed to actually cry some tears this morning as i said goodbye to my boyfriend - he'd hurt me so bad. I know I ought to get out, but then I'm physically also alone.

I'm really sorry to hear that you are constantly plagued by these thoughts. I remember how distressing it is, I was the same for a long time...
I have 2 answers, 1: you have been there before and have had the strength to get through so there is every reason to BELIEVE and TRUST that you have the strength to get through this really tough time to where things WILL be BETTER...

My second answer is religious so ignore it if it offends you.
I am Christian, I believe that if you ask, God will give you the strength to endure any adversity. I have often called out to god in really had times and have found this to be true. I am not saying that it will make things magically better, but it really helps me get through the tough times.
Also I believe that God created us, loves us and values us. This gives our lives such meaning and worth that it does make sense to end it even when things are bad.
I don't know if any of this will help, but its how I stopped thinking like that.
If anyone has any questions please PM me.

Thanks Black Pup.
Had to spend this AM running round due to work issues, and the sun has helped pull me out of this hole a bit. I'm coping ok, especially as I'm not on meds either.

I hope that your pdoc appointment proves fruitful today. Perhaps she can adjust your meds to a point to where you think they are helping. This is just a random thought, as I've never taken tradazone, but do you think that it is contributing to this depressed feeling? I know that it generally causes extreme sleepiness and you have other meds if you need to sleep, do you think maybe too many "downers" are messing things up? I hope things get better for you. And next time you see your bf, kick him a good one and when he asks why, say you were possessed and it was me doing it! If I were there, I would take it upon myself (I do annoying **** like this sometimes) to explain to him that he needs to be more supportive and loving and less selfish.

I tell my partner, my best friend (also bipolar 1), and think of my teen-aged son and how it would affect his life forever and how unfair that is for him. Sometimes I consider checking myself in somewhere but I've never done it.

Last week I stood at the edge of a tall cliff over some rocks with the ocean waves' foam spitting at them, but with the waves not quite reaching the rocks. I stood with my toes over the edge, curling them up and down, so close, so close, so very close, and realized something. I didn't want to kill myself. I wanted to want to kill myself. I can't do it. I think of all the times I've been normal or hypo or even a good kind of manic and how I've been horrified that my lying BP would lead my up there and lie lie lie...and that maybe 30 mins later I'd be fine and I'd love the gift of life again. I just couldn't do it. I've wanted to, but again, I learned that day that I wanted to want to...I want the screen to fade to black, to find relief, but that was all. I owe it to the gift of life I have been given to rise to its challenges no matter how difficult they are, no matter how much more so they seem than those of others, no matter how unfair is seems and is to have a brain that is wired this way, but I remember now that my illness is lying to me and it WILL NOT win.

And it won't. Ever. I will stay alive.

So glad you are coping ok now....

These thoughts are an hourly thing for me and has been that way for years now. I usually end up throwing a fit or crying until I can't cry anymore then moving on. Lately its been getting worse and causing my mate and T to worry but I can't help it. It's turned into a obsession and fascination I guess.

"Last week I stood at the edge of a tall cliff over some rocks with the ocean waves' foam spitting at them, but with the waves not quite reaching the rocks. I stood with my toes over the edge, curling them up and down, so close, so close, so very close, and realized something. I didn't want to kill myself. I wanted to want to kill myself. I can't do it. I think of all the times I've been normal or hypo or even a good kind of manic and how I've been horrified that my lying BP would lead my up there and lie lie lie...and that maybe 30 mins later I'd be fine and I'd love the gift of life again. I just couldn't do it. I've wanted to, but again, I learned that day that I wanted to want to...I want the screen to fade to black, to find relief, but that was all. I owe it to the gift of life I have been given to rise to its challenges no matter how difficult they are, no matter how much more so they seem than those of others, no matter how unfair is seems and is to have a brain that is wired this way, but I remember now that my illness is lying to me and it WILL NOT win.

And it won't. Ever. I will stay alive. "

Shakti, I don't know why but this statement amazes me. It is just perfectly perfect. That is exactly how I've felt about it, I didn't even know it until now!

Listen to Shakti! Wise one!

Perpet - Sorry, I meant to say I see my T today - the pdoc I seem to have given up hope on, so I hope my T can refer me to someone who can help.

I've stopped all tabs, thinking they are either useless, or pulling me down. I'm OK, just tired and cloudy. Whatever pdoc I see next will have a clean slate to work off, even if I personally am a bit of a mess.

Thanks for all your insight and supporting messages.
You've walked with me through a very dark phase and I am eternally grateful to you. Thanks so much to you strong people!!!

(((suga))) sorry i havent been on here lately (actually been feeling ok... kinda wierd) anyways i was reading and saw what you have been going through. HUGS TO YOU for being strong and taking life head on! Im so proud of you and hope it gets better really soon!

Suga, I've had these thoughts too. Almost daily. Some days, like over the weekend, it is totally unbearable. I have invasive images all day long about how I could "do it" and I tell myself that these thoughts are irrational because my life isn't bad at all. It's just my emotions messing with me. I have practically everything I could need or even want. I am very grateful for the people in my life. And yet, I can't stop thinking about sui. Some days I think about self injury too. But I don't act on it. And I think absolutely that just because you don't act on it doesn't mean you're not in as much pain as those who do attempt. You may just have developed a sense of logic, reason, and will power that others have not (no offense to those who have attempted as I'm sure you were in great pain and perhaps learned from the previous experience not to go there again). The pain is undeniable whether you attempt or just spend days and hours thinking about it. It's actually harder to live that way than to go ahead and attempt. We all know that there's always the hospital if the urges become too strong to handle. And I hope you'll take preventative measures before it gets too far.

Thanks for posting this. I see that so many of us struggle with these invasive thoughts and now I don't feel all alone.