[blueoctober]

I received an e-mail from the bipolar magazine I subscribed to and it had this interesting statistic on bipolar depression:

While episodes of mania or hypomania clinch the diagnosis of bipolar disorder, day-to-day it’s depression that most of us experience most of the time. As Donna Jackel reports in the new issue of bp Magazine, “People with bipolar I experience depression three times as often as mania. For bipolar II, the ratio of time spent in depression versus mania is a whopping 40:1.”

[PT52]

that makes sense..thanks for sharing

[lilred3382]

does that men bpII isnt real? i dont understand

[blueoctober]

Originally Posted by lilred3382

does that men bpII isnt real? i dont understand

It's saying that a person with BP II experiences depression much more often than a person with BP I.

[WendyAussie]

This reflects my experience exactly. But humorously, I have beeen diagnosed with both Bipolar 1 and also by another doctor as Bipolar 11. So someone suggested to me recently that I'm Bipolar one and a half!! lol All these name of illnesses are arbitrary anyway - the next DSM could have us classed with a whole new illness!! What's most important is that we get the right meds for whatever it is that ails us.

[lonegael]

Could be just that the human body has an easier time handling the depression than the manias. The manias are also when a lot of the real bad stuff happens, really. Depressions are when you would like to, but often hurt enough to get help. Just the odds again. Manias wear you out and tear on the body in a way that even depression can't manage. Hmm interesting. Thanks for the stats!

[Gus1234U]

what is the difference between BP 1 and BP 2 again ?? i seem to have forgotten which one is hypomanic. one would conclude from the descriptions that it is 2. i believe that a large part of the reason for the perceived discrepancy, is that we think "feeling good" is right and just and normal, so "positive" imbalances are not considered a 'disorder'. but oh well, maybe i have just been 'depressed' so long it seems 'normal' to me,,, LOLOL

[venusss]

Originally Posted by Gus1234U

what is the difference between BP 1 and BP 2 again ?? i seem to have forgotten which one is hypomanic. one would conclude from the descriptions that it is 2. i believe that a large part of the reason for the perceived discrepancy, is that we think "feeling good" is right and just and normal, so "positive" imbalances are not considered a 'disorder'. but oh well, maybe i have just been 'depressed' so long it seems 'normal' to me,,, LOLOL

I have hard time telling, when it's just being happy and when it's (hypo)manic... I am very spontageous person... when I travel to new places, I will regularly squeel and hop around. Among my friends I am the one to come with some "crazy" idea... or to follow their "crazy" ideas.

So I can't tell for myself. *meow*

[Tsunamisurfer]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

... I will regularly squeel and hop around. ...

LOL. I know the feeling. I spend a lot of my time in that ultra excited but probably not clinically anything state ... at least until someone decides I'm in trouble for it.

[Anneinside]

lonegael, the article actually states that depression is harder on people than hypomania/mania.

I know that for me, depression is much worse for me than hypomania, lasts longer and happens more frequently. With depression my life is in danger, hypomania is just expensive.

[wing]

I think you're classified as BP 1 if you have psychosis with your (untreated) mood swings.
BP 2 has "just" the mood swings. The new DSM has classified a whole bunch more types of BP...just what we need...more labels!!

[Anneinside]

The most important distinctions between Bipolar I and II are:

1. A person with BP II experiences hypomanic episodes but not manic episodes. The difference between mania and hypomania is a matter of severity - hypomania generally does not impair a person's daily functioning or cause the need for hospitalization.
2. Experience of psychotic symptoms such as hallucinations or paranoia indicates Bipolar I Disorder; the presence of such symptoms rules out Bipolar II.

I copied the above from : http://bipolar.about.com/cs/faqs/f/faq_bp12dif.htm

[WendyAussie]

winging'it, I think you've nailed it, the DSM is ever changing. There is the phrase Bipolar Spectrum, which is coming much more strongly into use and it means there is a range between Bipolar 1 and Bipolar 11 and we don't necessarily sit neatly into 1 or 11 - we can sit somewhere along it - and even change within that over time - and of course while meds asre great for us they obscure diagnoses. That certianly makes sense for me, as my presentation over a long period of time has included manifestations of both 1 and 11. I'm like anybody, I want clear diagnoses on Bipolar as well the other mental illnesses I have, but it's a moving feast and I want to divest myself of labels - the labels themselves have destroyed my life as much as the illnesses themselves. (Of course I haven't ey acheived divesting myself of labels- they very mich define my life - it's just aspirational!! lol)

[sugahorse1]

Definitely agree!

[lonegael]

As long as my meds work, I don't give a whip if I'm I, II or Henry the VIII. It's generally only worth discussing if someone wonders why you aren't swinging off the chandeliers if you are Bipolar or why you don't have relatives who think they are on missions from one diety or the other. Diagnosis aren't much good unless they are used to clarify or help professionals communicate to each other. The rest is just Pidgeonholing, in my mind.

[WendyAussie]

lonegael, good logic exept maybe the Henry the VIII bit. He'd chop off people's heads at a glance and if you start doing that, you'll perpetuate stereotpyes about Beepers!! lol

Please excuse my OFF humour, it's 3.41am, I forgot to take one part of my night meds, too late to take them, will not be sleeping tonight and am as mad as a hatter!! lol

[blueoctober]

The article also compared symptoms between unipolar depression and bipolar depression:

Unipolar Depression and Bipolar Depression shared the following symptoms:

1. Feelings of hopelessness, pessimism
2. Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, helplessness
3. Difficulty concentrating
4. Loss of interest or pleasure in hobbies and activities that were once enjoyed
5. Difficulty sleeping
6. Overeating or loss of appetite
7. Persistent aches or pains, headaches, cramps, or digestive problems that do not ease even with treatment
8. Thoughts of suicide, suicide attempts.

The additional symptoms for bipolar depression included the following:

1. More suicide attempts than with major depressive disorder
2. A profound loss of energy.
3. Severe depression more likely to include psychotic symptoms
4. Onset of depression at a younger age
5. More likely to have a co-occurring mental illness, such as OCD, panic disorder or substance abuse.
6. More episodes of depression than with unipolar depression
7. Use of antidepressant without a mood stabilizer may cause hypomania or mania.

[WendyAussie]

Yes, that makes sense Beth, the only think I would say is the Bipolar also includes all of the symptoms of Unipolar Depression as well. It's fun!!

[BlackPup]

Originally Posted by Anneinside

The most important distinctions between Bipolar I and II are:

1. A person with BP II experiences hypomanic episodes but not manic episodes. The difference between mania and hypomania is a matter of severity - hypomania generally does not impair a person's daily functioning or cause the need for hospitalization.
2. Experience of psychotic symptoms such as hallucinations or paranoia indicates Bipolar I Disorder; the presence of such symptoms rules out Bipolar II.

I copied the above from : http://bipolar.about.com/cs/faqs/f/faq_bp12dif.htm

There seems to be a clear difference in BP1 and 2 at the ends of the spectrum but in between it gets a bit blurry. Who is the judge of severity and whether it impairs your daily functioning, it is obvious when its really severe ie hospital or jail, or when its mild and difficult to detect, but in between its a grey zone - is it impairing function if you spend an entire day making patterns with numbers on a spreadsheet instead of working, or if your irritation gets you in trouble with work or family, or if you sign up for more work than you can handle and make promises that you can't live up too, how about cheating on a partner? What do you define as severe? Does it even matter? It's just to help the doctor's and for research purposes...

[blueoctober]

Originally Posted by WendyAussie

Yes, that makes sense Beth, the only think I would say is the Bipolar also includes all of the symptoms of Unipolar Depression as well. It's fun!!

Yes that's what the article noted. The first list is the symptoms that are presented in both unipolar and bipolar depression........yeah not so much fun

Originally Posted by BlackPup

There seems to be a clear difference in BP1 and 2 at the ends of the spectrum but in between it gets a bit blurry. Who is the judge of severity and whether it impairs your daily functionin...

Yes. Could not be more true. Sure, I'm dx'd BP II, but there are times when it impacts me severely. Also some paranoia, but according to the DSM, I'm II. There have been "incidents" that make me wonder though. They've been pretty "out there". Like BlackPup says, "who is the judge of severity"? Who indeed?
(But the huge multiplier of depression in BP II -- how I wish I could not relate to that, but there it is.)

[lonegael]

I have often been classified as a Bipolar II, but what bothers me is that those who areproposnents of this have a way of trivializing the mixed episods when they come up and ditto with the psychotic features (hallucinations, mainly, paranoia in some cases). Now, if the classification is there to help understand me, and my problems and to treat me appropriately, why should this be happening? I often get the response that I function too well on too few meds .
My point is that I all toó often fear that diagnosis and prejudice (ei tried and true exprerience) blend as freely in practice and in the application of the guidlines as do the boundaries between I and II in the wonderfull world of Beepers. I happen to have a lot of support, training, and just raw luck in dealing with my disorder. Untreated, I am a natural disaster of biblical proportions like any other untreated chronically mentally ill person with violent mood swings. Pardon my humor. All too often professionals think they have seen it all and can call it from a five minute conversation and a quick check in the DSM. Oh, man, have we all hmade that mistake... huggs all.

[sugahorse1]

Beth, what confuses me is "Severe depression more likely to include psychotic symptoms "
I know I've posted this before, but I'm just not sure what psychotic symptoms are in depression.

[Tsunamisurfer]

Originally Posted by lonegael

... I often get the response that I function too well on too few meds .
...

Very strange that they trivialise the mixed episode and psychotic symptoms or pass them off as not having a significant impact on your life.

Some people respond to much lower doses of medications than do others. That doesn't make the illness less severe if left untreated.

[Tsunamisurfer]

Originally Posted by sugahorse

Beth, what confuses me is "Severe depression more likely to include psychotic symptoms "
I know I've posted this before, but I'm just not sure what psychotic symptoms are in depression.

Paranoia, for one. Auditory hallucinations of voices urging suicide, or voices of people talking behind ones back, with evil intent. Delusions of being able to read the minds of other people, "knowing" that they are planning your demise....
Those would be psychotic symptoms consistent with a depressive episode.