[grandmaof3]

20 years ago before I was diagnosed, I got my BS in accounting and had a 4.0. I decided I didn't want to be an accountant and I went to nursing school and got my LPN. I had a 4.0. Last year I went back to school to get my RN and I failed out. I've been on meds for 9 years now. I had a hard time paying attention in class and I would read over assignments several times and still not remember what I read. Is it my meds or the fact that I'm 45 instead of 25 ? I was devastated when I failed with a D and I have never had less than an A. I am thinking of trying again but I'm not sure if I should.

[unaluna]

What meds? And what have you been smokin'? Or drinking? Booze kills brain cells, ya know. But yes, some meds eg Topamax have a very bad rep, it's even nicknamed Dopemax. Just your age shouldn't be an issue, I scored as well on the GRE (& GMAT) at age 40 as I did at 22.

[grandmaof3]

I don't smoke anything and I don't drink. I'm on Geodon, ativan, wellbutrin and paxil

[korafrancesca]

I think some medications do cause cognitive impairments. I know that Zyprexa dulled my memory. I would have trouble recalling things and also not pay attention to details.

[Trippin2.0]

A close friend of my mother was on psych meds for years after some sort of breakdown. Not sure what, but AD's were involved. Recently a scan revealed her brain had shrunk a conciderable amount! To add insult to injury, the doctors were convinced she was abusing DRUGS well, thats the other reason I refuse to go back on meds... Doctors don't warn you about these things, they rather blame something else.

Don't mean to scare anybody, but facts are facts.

[likewater]

Topomax makes me have some memory and cognitive problems

[Tsunamisurfer]

Brain shrinkage from antipsychotic use is one of the reasons I decided to live with the symptoms of my illness instead of doping up to mask them. I'm not sure what the impact of anti-epileptic drugs is though.
The trouble with psychosis is it can be so debilitating when your brain feels electrically fried that you can become incapacitated to the point where taking antipsychotics may be the less destructive path (at least in the short term).
But for less severe cases, where moods give you an unpleasant ride, but are manageable without drugs, and where suicidality is not a significant component of the syndrome, it may be a feasible decision to stay off drugs which can impede your ability to function.

[Anneinside]

Ativan can cause cognitive dulling. I was taking other benzos (xanax and klonopin) when I took the GRE. I was unable to do any of the logic problems.

[AniManiac]

The normal course of bipolar can also cause neural problems - over time, our brains shrink faster/differently than the general population. So that probably isn't helping.

Some mood stabilizers (lithium in particular) have been shown to stop/improve this degradation. So one factor could be how long you've been on mood stabilizers, which would probably help prevent things from getting worse. If the mood stabilizers are recent, then it could be damage already done from years untreated - sad but true. I'm a little bitter about that one, having had my condition ignored by docs for 15 years!

But there's any number of things that could be going on - depending on age, there are natural things like hormonal changes that can really mess with cognitive performance.

[JustWannaDisappear]

Originally Posted by grandmaof3

20 years ago before I was diagnosed, I got my BS in accounting and had a 4.0. I decided I didn't want to be an accountant and I went to nursing school and got my LPN. I had a 4.0. Last year I went back to school to get my RN and I failed out. I've been on meds for 9 years now. I had a hard time paying attention in class and I would read over assignments several times and still not remember what I read. Is it my meds or the fact that I'm 45 instead of 25 ? I was devastated when I failed with a D and I have never had less than an A. I am thinking of trying again but I'm not sure if I should.

I'm 29, did great in HS, had a traumatic even happen when I was 18 and barely did 2yrs of community college before dropping out. I was going for RN. Back then I was severely depressed, I had been struggling since I was 15 with depression, self harm & bulimia.

Fast forward to now and I cannot carry an intelligent conversation with anyone. I forget things all day long. I can't pay attention when people talk, it's like I'm lost in my own head/thoughts and I can read something several times and still not know what I read. After therapy sessions, I have a hard time remembering much of what we worked on. I really want to go back to school and finally pursue my lifelong dream of being a nurse but I'm so scared to go, spend money on school when I have no clue what I'm hearing/reading.

I have the same problem on here. I don't respond much because most of the time I don't understand what people are saying. It's like my brain is stuck on stupid. Very frustrating. I went off of Zoloft and buspar when it got worse and am now on 200mg of Lamictal and it's even worse.

I really want to stop meds completely. I hate feeling like such an idiot all the time.

[Forgive77]

makes me dumb....I forget what I'm doing from the kitchen to the pantry. LOL

90mg cymbalta...about to be upped
200 mg of Lamictol...about to be upped
40 mg of Geodon...just perfect.
1mg of xanx XR....gonna ask to be upped

Originally Posted by likewater

Topomax makes me have some memory and cognitive problems

What do you take these for? I have been on these for almost 4 years for migraine and I am starting to think if these cause me to feel numb. I like them in other ways as they control my weight when taking other meds.

Worse ever med I have taken for numbness is Mirtazapine, I didn't know what day it was when I was taking these, Was only on them 3 months, awful med.

[grandmaof3]

I don't want too off my meds....I don't think I could function off meds, I have enough trouble on them ! My symptoms have got worse over the years. Last time I decided to go off meds I ended up in the hospital and I really never want to go back. But...if I did go off the meds would my cognition get better or is it damage done ?

[Secretum]

Tegretol really affected my memory. Unfortunately, Ani is right. Bipolar will rot our brains just like the drugs used to treat it.

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by grandmaof3

But...if I did go off the meds would my cognition get better or is it damage done ?

I have had the opposite experience. My cognitive function tanked before I started meds. Getting them worked out has meant I can be much more functional than I was before, but that's a recent enough experience that I can really tell the difference.

So some of that is also about your baseline. What are you comparing your current functioning to? Before you got sick? When you're hypo/manic? Those aren't fair comparisons.

If you're seeing a T or a pdoc, these are probably good concerns to bring up. A doc would hopefully be better able to determine whether a meds change might help.

[venusss]

Not to be the paranoid 1 or anything, but it hasn't been proved that bp causes brain damage. It's been suggested... Same with schizophrenia...

yeah, tbh, it seems as a pharma line. How many long term untreated people had their brains studied? I don't doctors near me, let alone my brain... and so do many others who are not on meds........ because the current system is useless to us. We are not involved or involved minimal, we don't show up in statistics...

hey, I don't know how many people like me are there (most of the alternatives were on meds on one point and than decided to ditch 'em).

And I like Breggin's work.

I think many of the things.... kindling theory, brain shrinkage, sui attempt rate (I posted article on it, talking about possible flaws of the 1 in 5 number) are to a degree pharma propaganda....and part urban myth. Because scary stories spread, even about health. I mean, you probably heard some BS stories yourself (aka cellphones cause braintumors or kill your braincells).

(I think the kindling theory comes from unmanaged bipolar..... and I am not talking about chemical management. But rather building on bad coping skills and habits to a point when it is near impossible to change, because you had so much bad experience and made too many mistakes to be able to clean all the mess. It has nothing to do with chemicals, imho).

[Trippin2.0]

(double post, now VH's quoting me before my post! LOL)

Not to be the paranoid 1 or anything, but it hasn't been proven that bp causes brain damage. It's been suggested... Same with schizophrenia...
If you research a little bit, there is evidence that the 'patients' who's brains that were tested, were long-term psych patients and thus were on meds,mainly AAP's for a number of years. Which like TS mentioned,does cause brain atrophy.

The book Toxic Psychiatry,by Dr Peter.R.Breggin.MD
Suggest that these 'findings' were used as a cover up for what their drugs are actually doing to us.

Now I'm not saying this book is gospel, to me, EVERYTHING is questionable, but I like to hear all the versions of the story,not just the 1 that's safe.

I understand that alot of us,at some point or another might indeed need a chemical straight jacket, but what scares me is that people are so willingly and blindly trusting perfect strangers with something as important and precious as their brain... I might be wrong, but I get the feeling that once dxd, 'my "normal" life is over, it's meds for life for me' feeling. As if some were scared into submission. I don't hear many if any stories about 'how i coped before I got so messed up meds were the only option' stories. And this REALLY saddens me.

Dr's make this disorder seem SO hopeless, it's disheartening how they dx you and then give you a prescription. Without a hope of a semblence of future normal. the general message I got from pdocs is 'you now need these drugs to be ok'

Newsflash, i AM ok,without your drugs. Yes i still struggle,but no more than with a safety net of meds.

Being undxd, I had to learn my own coping mechanisms,and then tried the med route. For now I'm trusting myself to know myself well enough,to know when I can apply those coping mechanisms, and when I need help. And if in a few years time, for some reason meds are the only option, I pray that they are safer by then.

I don't mean to come off as a poster child for 'rebel against meds' and I don't mean to offend anyone. I just want my friends to make informed decisions AND have a fraction of the faith they have in pdocs in themselves...

[catrules]

It's interesting that you posted this because I was just thinking about the same thing the other day. I am currently taking grad classes, and am really struggling to grasp concepts, focus on readings etc. This was never a problem for me in the past. I don't know if it is the meds or the illness, but I am wondering if I will be able to do this.

[Confusedinomicon]

I have a theory that I just came up with a moment ago.

I think that the medication can potentially hurt short term memory. HOWEVER, I believe that long-term memory can stay mostly intact as long as you constantly stay engaged with material that makes you think. I think that one of the side effects of taking medication is losing interest in doing things. The "flat" affect. There is also usually some 'helplessness' mindset that seems to be perpetuated by the people who are trying to help us. (Doctors, social workers etc...) But basically my line of thought is that the medication can make someone disinterested and unwilling to learn so they don't spend time doing so. Which means your brain mass would eventually shrink because you're not strengthening the connections between the neurons.....

o_O I feel like I got a stroke of genius but I don't know if it makes sense...

[Tsunamisurfer]

Originally Posted by Confusedinomicon

...medication can make someone disinterested and unwilling to learn so they don't spend time doing so. Which means your brain mass would eventually shrink because you're not strengthening the connections between the neurons.....

Seems like a sound observation.

I have to admit that the reason I went to a psychologist initially was to deal with difficulties with motivation and energy, which I put down to depression.
But the inability to concentrate on what someone was saying to me, to filter out a single conversation from a group of people chatting in a room, to read and comprehend simple content, etc. all took a dive when I was on stronger doses of neuroleptics.
Now that I am off almost all the drowsy making drugs, my mind is a lot clearer, and I am getting a lot more done. I am not feeling snared in helplessness anymore. The consequence is I can now feel - both beauty and pain more acutely, and I need to manage my responses to situations more actively than when I was on drugs.

[bluemountains]

I find that my meds aren't usually responsible, it is the fact that my thyroid med needs adjusting. I can always tell this because I get completely dumb, misuse words, and want to fall asleep at stoplights.
Btw, when on cymbalta I wasn't dumb (medication-wise), I just felt that my senses were dull.
Bluemountains

[Merlin]

I cannot function without meds, although I do a fair amount of self-care as well. I have tried before, but I cannot even use coping mechanisms when I am unstable. I was on and off meds for years and ever time I went off them I became severally depressed, although sometimes I managed I hypomania first. Although that usually turned into a depression with mixed features. As a result of the bipolar symptoms, I was required to withdraw from one university with failing grades and chose to withdraw from another, fortunately with a 3.0, though many withdrawals from individual course. I have gone back to school while stabilized on meds and the difference is night and day. I know that the meds have affected my academic functioning to some degree, but not to the point where it is impairing. Perhaps I lucked out in finding the right meds, but they work. I would recommend contacting the disability support of any college/university/technical institute you attend. They can help you receive accommodations and intervene with profs for you if you become more disabled during the year. They can also hook you up with tutors and academic strategists.

[mgran]

Although I feel slower on meds, and I struggle to find the right word a lot of the time, have some short term blanks when I can't think at all, I still think I'm better than I was. I was thinking too fast, making random connections that didn't make sense, and unable to focus on one task for long. So though I was "cleverer", I was unable to function safely.

I still wish there was some more happy medium. I've reduced my meds, but can't go any lower till I've seen the psych nurse... wish me luck next week.

[moremi]

I was on geodon for about a year and had a lot of memory problems. Forgot everything i knew in my seven year career after being gone for a year. Its tough, some of it has come back but a lot of my memories im afraid are gone forever. Its been four months since I was taken off of the medicine but daily im reminded of my lost memories from family and friends. The memoriesmi have lost of my children hurt the most.

[doglover5]

Hi! I'm not bipolar, but I have BPD and am encountering a similar situation. I'm only 22, but made straight A's in high school when I wasn't on meds; started my first med at the beginning of college & my grades suffered a good bit, started making everything from a D, several C's, mostly B's (barely) and only a few A's throughout my four years, taking an average of appx 15 hours a semester. Now I've just finished my first semester of grad school, on a cocktail of 3 meds, with only a 12 hr load of what I would have called "easy" classes 4 years ago, and i barely passed each of them.

Long story short, I noticed I do feel "dumb" also. I have a VERY hard time coming up with words to use in daily conversation and usually need people to repeat what they say several times before I understand. It's the same with reading, I take two or three times as long as i used to because I have to re-read everything so many times to gain understating.

I now take 100mg of Pristiq for depression & BPD, 30 mg of Vyvanse for hypersomnia/ narcolepsy, and 1mg of Klonapin for anxiety/ panic attacks.
After a stint of "musical meds" in an attempt to find the right one to treat my sleep disorder (100-200mg of Provigil, then 125-250mg of Nuvigil, then 10-40mg of Ritalin, then finally finding the winner at 30mg of Vyvanse), I did some research on drug interactions. Doc willingly prescribed me the Vyvanse upon my request, since nothing else had worked, even though i thought it'd be a long shot since all the websites I had read gave Vyvanse & Pristiq together a huge red flag on interaction. Paranoid my dr wasn't knowledgeable enough about his job (bpd lol) i did even more digging and found that apparently with the two meds taken together there's a "small chance" that the consumer could develop "serotonin syndrome" from taking them both together. Guess what, it accounts for all the memory loss, confusion, etc. etc.

Not saying you might have serotonin syndrome also, haha, but looking into your potential med interaction consequences could maybe give you some insight like it did for me! I am unwilling to stop taking any of my meds also and resistant to going through the daunting process of changing them; so i've just decided to deal with being "dumb" haha. You might be wanting to take a different route though. Anyway hope some of this helps!!