[InTherapy]

I'm just curious. I was in a psychology class today, and the teacher was talking about the differences between psychiatrists and psychologists.

She said that psychologists generally want to try to use psychotherapy first, and medicines second. But then she went on to say that with some disorders, such as psychosis or bipolar, she would not feel comfortable treating someone unless she knew they were on meds.

I have only recently started therapy, and her words were like a slap in the face. I've only been going 8-9 weeks, and bipolar is the "suspected diagnosis". I know the way I think and my sleep patterns and energy levels and such are abnormal and need to be addressed... but she made it sound like people with bipolar are downright dangerous without medicine. (And I'm wary of medicine to begin with).

She basically just made me feel like a demented monster.

Thoughts?

[Anneinside]

Did she say they were dangerous or could she have mean she wouldn't be comfortable treating someone without meds because the meds are necessary for therapy to be effective?

[InTherapy]

Originally Posted by Anneinside

Did she say they were dangerous or could she have mean she wouldn't be comfortable treating someone without meds because the meds are necessary for therapy to be effective?

I definitely got the impression that her feelings were not due to concerns about the patient, but concerns about herself. The way she said it was sort of slow and halting, like she wasn't sure if she should admit it. She really emphasized the "Well, if it was ME, I wouldn't feel comfortable working with them until they had some medicines to help stabilize them."

[Xeneon]

I don't think you must be on medicine. I think it depends on the issue. I believe that all people that are in therapy and want to change should have chance to change before going on meds. I'm very wary of meds because they can damage someones brain. Remember she said she would feel unconfortable to work with someone with bipolar doesn't mean she wouldn't try to help. I know how you may see this but maybe she know something we don't know. But of course this is just my opinion.

[Xeneon]

sorry just saw your post above mine. Well thats stupid but i'm sure there is plenty of other counselors that would work with people with bipolar without meds. Shes just dumb.

[Moose72]

People are highly ignorant about bipolar. I know that for me, meds are a must. I would just guess that this woman is talking about what she has little to no real experience. If you wanted, you could go up after and give her a short chat about it. But you know her better than I do.

[cocoabeans]

Without medication, I am a danger, to myself. I can become so desperately suicidal, oh boy! Meds are needed. I don't think anyone would be comfortable working with me without medication. There would be no winning and for me, irresponsible on behave of the therapist who was fine withpout me being on drugs.

I thought all bipolar depression was like that?

[BuggsBunny]

I know medication is a must for me as well. My 1st and my last Ts both made sure I was not only medicated, but seeing my pdoc on a regular basis.

[venusss]

Are meds necessary? Are we dangerous?

No and hell no.


You know it is sad this is spewed in schools, because then us who want to go the medical route have little places to turn to. My insurance will pay me for a dealer (pardon, a psychiatrist), but not psychologist. And I worry that if I dig money of my account to pay myself a psychologist, I will be lectured on meds a lot of time.

I thought all bipolar depression was like that?


um, no? When manic I dye my hair and argue with dead political theorists (I always win too). When depressed I draw suprisingly colorful pictures with oil chalks. Do you?

[-jimi-]

I don't think he meant bipolars are dangerous, BUT that therapy can shift the balance and make people feel worse, and then if you have something serious like bipolar you might be so thrown out of balance you act in a way that is harmful or maybe even lethal to yourself. A therapist really doesn't want to lose patients this way.

[cocoabeans]

Venus, I'm sorry if I offended you. I thought suicidal thinking/actions during depression/mixed states was to be expected with nearly all who have bipolar and meds help. I'm glad you've never been like that. It is good!

[~Christina]

Alot of people think Bipolar is this " crazy go on wild killing rampages " type of illness when in fact its of course not ... thats why I hate when someone does something evil ,, seems like hours later they are Labeled with having bipolar ..ie: the guy that shot Gabby Giffords....

My bipolar is just the opposite ,,I will harm myself not anyone else.

So much ignorance in this world about mental illness .. right now im currently on medications ,, maybe one day I can be med free or maybe not .. but im not a danger to anyone but me LOL

Sorry you had to sit thru a talk knowing that your professor was wrong
((((( HUGS ))))))

[AniManiac]

Interestingly enough, a blogger that I follow recently posted on this very topic!
http://bipolarcurious.wordpress.com/...polar-patient/

I think it's a really insightful post - the blogger in question has problems with most medications so having been told repeatedly that therapists wouldn't take her on because she was unmedicated was extremely insulting.

I'm certainly not dangerous, not even to a spider in my house, I just can't bring myself to kill insects, even if they gross me out. I'm not a huge danger to myself either.

I think she was talking about the therapy sending the unmedicated patient into a dangerous tailspin. Even so tho, are we no longer individuals? Do we no longer have rights on weather we takes medications or not. Do we not deserve a shot at healing because we choose not to take pharmaceuticals?

Well I recently found out I signed some sort of community order that requires that I am compliant with meds, even though it was not explained, and was part of my agreement when I went on disability, it was done in a way that was to go unnoticed. So I thought I had rights to take meds or not, guess I might be wrong.

[Trippin2.0]

I'm unmedicated, yes I go up, and also down, sometimes WAY down,sui down, but I'm not a danger to anybody, ok, maybe to myself sometimes but I always catch it in time and deal with it.

People should really STFU regarding stuff they know nothing about and stop trying to put everybody in tiny little boxes. Does the word 'individual' not apply to someone dxd with MI?

[InTherapy]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

People should really STFU regarding stuff they know nothing about and stop trying to put everybody in tiny little boxes.

Well, she has her PhD in clinical psych, I think she knows something about it... that's what made it hurt so badly.

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by InTherapy

Well, she has her PhD in clinical psych, I think she knows something about it... that's what made it hurt so badly.

Reading case studies, or even listening to someone's struggle does N0T mean you get it at all. And if you don't 'get it', you don't know it. Therefore your 'knowledge' is useless.

She should try living our lives for a while, I give her a week tops ( and that's IF she has my resillience)

I stand by what I said. She knows N0THING.

[Moose72]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Reading case studies, or even listening to someone's struggle does N0T mean you get it at all. And if you don't 'get it', you don't know it. Therefore your 'knowledge' is useless.

She should try living our lives for a while, I give her a week tops ( and that's IF she has my resillience)

I stand by what I said. She knows N0THING.

I agree.

[Confusedinomicon]

Therapists must be brainwashed to think that a person with bipolar cannot function off of medication.

If they did enough homework, they would know it is a SPECTRUM. Everyone exhibits the features of this disorder in different ways and some people have mild enough bipolar that medication is not necessary. It all depends on the individual.

The PH.D. student is only perpetuating this thought that medication is the only way. WHY NOT APPROACH THIS AS A PSYCHO-SOCIAL-BIO model? Why is it always BIO BIO BIO?

I know I sound mad, but I am mad. I am tired of this misconception that even in therapy there is biases against people who have MI. Is it that easy to forget we're all human? Regardless of what ailment we have???

Nope, don't sound mad, not in the crazy sense, not to me.

[zbmom]

I'm not sure where she was coming from because I'm not her.

I do know that the fact is bipolar illness does have a biological basis, there is a chemical imbalance in the brain and if left untreated it does tend to worsen over time. People can go from one or two episodes a year to rapid cyclers over several years of being unmedicated.

I've had episodes since I was 15, went undiagnosed and unmedicated for 11 years. I've had 3-4 episodes of major depression and hypomania annually for the last 2 years whereas before I'd only have one. I was diagnosed last summer and have been on effective meds now for about 6 months.

Meds have side effects and risks and those should be weighed, but I don't want to think about where I'd be without mine. I hate taking them, I hate needing chemicals to hold down a job, be a good mom, and stay alive, but unfortunately I do. My therapy helps a lot too.

It seems that bipolar people do best with meds AND therapy so keep that in mind as well. There are always going to be exceptions or people who choose to ride out the waves without meds but I'll tell you if I had diabetes I'd take insulin, if I had cancer I'd do chemo, I take an inhaler for my asthma. Why should psych meds be any different. The stigma pisses me off more than anything.

[BlackPup]

i need meds or all the T in the world does nothing and I'd end up killing myself....

[tohelpafriend]

Yes, meds are necessary for some. Right now, I'm off anti d's until I see a cardiologist...it's been about two months,...some SSRIs I can't take because they rev up my respiratory rhythm....on the flip side, now I'm more slowed down, coping with alot of stuff but facing long repressed anger. Sometimes I think meds taken for too long can mask the sources of an illness. For me, though I know my depressions have been physiological imbalances....I don't think I've been properly diagnosed, actually.
It's a battle with mental health issues....my next step is to take the medication of a changed environment.

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by InTherapy

Well, she has her PhD in clinical psych, I think she knows something about it... that's what made it hurt so badly.

This is coming from someone who is under 2 months away from having her PhD: having a PhD does not mean you know anything about reality-land.

The truth about a PhD is that it's extremely specialized. She may have very little or only very basic exposure to information about the particular issue she was spouting about. Her expertise may be in some other area, in which she's probably very, very good and very knowledgeable - but probably not this one, or as others have said, she'd know that it's a spectrum, that there are multiple treatment options, etc.

[forever]

This may be an unpopular answer but it haunts me personally when the question comes up... Are people with mental illness dangerous?

It haunts me because my great grandmother suffered from mental illness - she shot and killed her husband and five of her eight children. There was an article written in Women's true crime stories giving her account of what happened. It was very hard to read, but I realized she was not evil or mean, she was psychotic at a time when there was no treatment available. It states she went to Houston the largest city near her seeking treatment.

She spent over forty years in prison occasionally being sent to Rusk mental hospital when she became psychotic. Many of my relatives have said she was one of the nicest people you would ever meet.

I suffered my own psychotic break at age thirty-nine, I was hospitalized, put on medication I have been stable for six years. (meaning not manic, psychotic nor suicidally depressed) though I am melancholy & my energy remains low. It was an eye opening experience.

So my answer would be yes, people who experience psychosis can be dangerous, it would be a hard to deny having lost six members of my family.

I am thankful - everyday - there is medicine to treat this illness.