Memory/associations in a changing brain

You did not luck out on Lithium - I have instant access to my expansive vocabulary on it. Always have had, even back when I was on high doses of Lithium (I am on a medium dose now). I do lose words, but, literally, one per month or even less frequently. Last time I lost a word was during my latest job interview, which was many weeks ago. The word was "plot" (as a term in statistics) - I still remember it. So I do not even know whether to fault Lithium for these very infrequent lapses. Maybe, as Venus said, it is just something that happens to everyone from time to time.

Regarding cycling: my current coctail has stopped them completely. I do not know whether I will be able to find anything as effective once I move beyond the Geodon, but right now I've even stopped moodtracking because my mood is always "baseline" - it became boring to me to track the moods. There is nothing to track: Prozac has eliminated all depression and Lithium+Geodon have been very effective against mania. No cycles any more. So it is possible. I wish I could find something as effective for migraine headaches (you can tell I am having one - a mild one so I am still writing - right now).

Then you dear hammy, have lucked out once again. Bcos how many members here still suffer from episodic depressions or hypomania? Maybe not as pronounced as before, but they do. How many still feel the cycle but your reactions are muted? To say that meds stop cycles, IS inaccurate. Cos that would mean we are CURED. I do not discount the fact that they can and do help some, but to say that they stop cycling, is a gross generalization that certainly does not take everyone into account...

I know - not everyone lucks out.

I was pleased the other day that my LT memory has been clearly unaffected. My older daughter started learning French in HS. I was helping her - her father does not speak French. Now last time I studied French was in the 1990s, WAY before all meds. Everything came back to me easily when I opened my daughter's textbook. Vocabulary, pronunciation, grammar - everything. My daughter said that my accent is better than their teacher's! I really value knowing languages and hope to use my French one day, so it was important to me.

I knew better than to stick my nose where it don't belong...

I don't know that alcohol increases the severity of episodes, really depends. I think that a lot of ppl with bp become alcoholics bcuz they were trying to manage symtoms.

To a regular / not alcoholic person can have a few drinks occasionally and be fine. But on the other hand same person, me for example, can drink too much and throw me into manic episode followed depression.

As much as I like my clonopins, I think you're right, they probably are more harmful than good for someone with bp. They are very addicting, I've heard the horror stories, and they can actually make you depressed.

Every time my son was hospitalized, and my daughter too, the staff would not give them their already prescribed clonopin. It made me so mad, but one guy nurse explained to me about the receptors being the same as with alcohol and how it can cause more depression.

So the hospitals know this, don't give suicidal teen benzos. But the pdocs hand them out. I am pretty responsible with mine, try not to take them every day, careful with alcohol. I am not taking one tonight because of this conversation.

Sorry I'm late. I'm less coherent then normal so bare with me.

I was a bright student and it has progressively worse. When I am depressed I'm not creative. I more worry that cycling makes memory worse. I feel that over-medication causes memory issues. If you are going through a cycle it could really effect your thinking ability. As far as drinking vs. meds, drinking is a depressant and not all BP's take benzo's. Alcohol makes me suicidal and pot makes me irritable. So I avoid alcohol.

I take a low Anti-depressant for anxiety. I also take a mood stabilizer. My meds may be worse for my brain then not, I don't know. Meds keep my life together, and let me be free (not in and out of jail or the hospital). If you don't want medication still see a therapist to give yourself more tools. Your completely in your right to say that you don't want medication. I'm a firm believer in try everything else before meds. If you do take meds don't settle for side effects. As far as cycling it is longer and others say less intense. I do cycle faster on the wrong AD's though.

It is very individual. Benzos pretty much do nothing to me. Don't do any good but do not do any bad either, and it is easy for me to stop them entirely. I drink very very little and only socially and alcohol also does not do anything good for me, but it does not cause mood swings for sure - I was monitoring the moods until recently and will probably resume moodtracking.

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I've never been told exactly what causes the shorter life span. I've known people with bipolar who lived to be elderly and three who died before their time.

I'm guessing, but I'd say that it may have to do with a wearing down of the electrical system. At my age, I have that and have a pacemaker.

A portion of the brain fires too rapidly in bipolar illness (according to my psychiatrist). Makes me wonder if the rapid firing in youth might not put excessive wear on the electrical system as one begins to age. It is known that without medication, the illness becomes worse as one ages. That alone alarmed me when I first learned it.

I don't believe really that it is a scare tactic to say that bipolar patients might have a life-expectancy shorter than others. I think it might be true.

Try not to worry; the next thing you know, we'll have an answer from the scientists.

Trying to know why is an interesting research question. Why don't you do some and let us know what the theories are on the subject?

I just asked this question on the internet and got the following answer: "Do bipolar patients have a shorter life-span than others?"

The answer:" Serious mental illness has a life expectancy of 25 years shorter than that of others." Several sites give information on it, so there may be many answers available. Suicide rates are higher in bipolar illness (20 times higher) than in other illnesses.

I'm also guessing that among those who have shorter life-spans it
may be related to alcohol use for relief of psychic pain or other
addictions that lead to unrelated illnesses because of incorrect care
for the individual.

I don't really rely on these things for my thinking, frankly. Knowing people who have had bipolar illness and lived very successfully far longer than the average life-span is of much more interest to me.

Take care, Trippin.

Genetic

Yeah, no... Interesting theory your pdoc has. Guess I'll just have to wait for the speculating and the theorizing to stop, I prefer facts. Did you know that longterm use of AP's are known to cause brain atrophy? (Happened to my aunt btw) Yet, this 1 study states bipolar causes brain atrophy, not the med... Theories are not my friend... Take care Gen

The idea that a portion of the brain fires too rapidly isn't a theory, Trippin. It's fact. (She's a graduate of Duke University with a doctorate in psychiatry and lectures on the illness.) It's my guessing that isn't factual! (The idea that the electrical system is affected after years of this illness is my theory.)

Never had an anti-psychotic so I don't know anything about that. I'm sorry that it does cause brain problems, though.

This illness is one to be really careful about and I think almost everyone here is trying hard to do well. And they are, don't you think?

Take care.

Genetic

I would like to know more about brain atrophy from the prolonged use of APs. I am still deciding between AP Abilify and MS Tegretol, so I need this kind of information. Where can I read about it?

Hammy, I dont have the links I used before, but I just found this 1 with my phone, not sure how helpful or credible it is tho, as I am unable to view the full site...

http://www.mindfreedom.org/kb/psychiatric-drugs/antipsychotics/neuroleptic-brain-damage

Gen, if your pdoc is preaching fact. Why has nobody made this misfiring problem a well-known fact? Shouldn't the medical field then explain this to us when diagnosed or even when reading up on bp? To my knowledge, everybody is still on the 'chemical imbalance' trip/theory

Okay, Trippin, I didn't say "misfiring"; I said "rapid-firing".

Again, I'm guessing, but I think she's probably a psychiatrist who keeps up with the latest data on discoveries regarding biplar illness; otherwise, she couldn't be a very effective lecturer on the subject.

Your guess is as good as mine regarding this. She has even suggested to me that I didn't have to take any psychotropic medications, that aspirin would be effective for me. She knows more than I do, that's for sure. (Now, that isn't appropriate for everyone, definitely. Medications are often required in this illness.)

Do you want a guess as to why other psychiatrists don't mention this? Part of it is long-time practice in psychiatry and knowledge of to what extent a patient needs psychotropic medications. Another guess might be that some doctors don't keep up with latest advances. They rely on the pharmaceutical companies' new products as possibly being of help (though I expect that's a leap of faith to suppose that!), or that some psychiatrists just don't discuss those things with patients or don't know it.

There are really three facts known about the illness: (that I have been made aware of)

1. It is a chemical imbalance.
2. It can be genetically inherited.
3. It's an inflammation of the brain in which a portion of the brain fires too rapidly in bipolar illness, but scientists don't know why yet.

And there's probably a heck-of-a-lot more known that we patients will never know.

Keep asking questions; we're putting information out there, lady, for everyone to evaluate related to his/her own concepts. This is how we learn to take care of ourselves.

For example, I've learned from her statement that there are certain things I can do that slow down the rapid-firing: one is the use of lemon juice and ice cold water; another is the use of unrefined sea salt to help in the removal of acidity from around brain cells, and avoiding inflammatory foods like cheese, white flour products, beef, pork, the artificial sweeteners, including Aspartame (which is poisonous), saccharine, etc. Only Stevia (to date) has been shown not to be detrimental.

For me, it was learning that caffeine (because I am sensitive to it) was devastating to stability for me.
Removing it has made all the difference--just like taking the road less traveled (as in Robert Frost's "The Road Not Taken").

There's so much to learn if we can keep an open mind and experiment with what works for us. We're likely to all be different in what will work for each of us, but I've always appreciated any help that would enable me to avoid having to take high dosages of psychotropic medications.

I keep myself aware particularly of Dr. Kay Jamison Redfield's title to her book "Touched With Fire". That about sums up what I know and that's not enough at this point.

Thanks for your input and take care.

Genetic

Thank you, will look through - seems like a comprehensive list. Neuroleptics is what Americans call APs.