[interested2012]

Hello,

I have been following this board for a long time but haven't posted much. I was hoping to tap into this wonderful network to get some advice from any mothers with BP out there who have more than one child.

I am thinking of getting pregnant. I have one child who I had before I was diagnosed. That was six years ago and my illness has gotten quite a bit worse since.

During my last pregnancy I was on antidepressants and was hypomanic but managed. Recently, when I tried to discontinue my mood stabilizer in preparation for pregnancy it was a disaster and I crashed into a terrible depression.

My question is this: for those who have been pregnant more than once, did your mood/stability remain the same with each pregnancy? If you did well in the first pregnancy were the subsequent ones the same (or if your pregnancy was difficult in terms of your BP were your subsequent ones as well)? I am wondering if I should expect (hope) that I will do well again or if now that my disease is worse I should expect that the pregnancy will be as well.

I know no-one can predict what will happen but I am just trying to find out what others' experiences have been. Thanks

Hi! and welcome
I have three kids and had them all before I was diagnosed. My first pregnancy was the worst in regards to mood. I was terribly depressed and agitated. With my second, I was somewhat depressed, hypo after the birth, then went into a deep depression. Then with my third I was hypo in the beginning, depressed, and then hypo after the birth.
I think all pregnancies are different and you should tread carefully especially if you think your illness is worsening.

[Anika.]

I have three children also, The first pregnancy was a disaster, it was very hard emotionally, but more so because of circumstance I think. Second was pretty good, mostly happy times, but not manic. Third was stressful but still good. I was in a very stressful marriage, so It's hard for me to tell whether it was the bipolar or the situation.

I went through all of my pregnancies, on no meds, and no pdoc, because I was still in denial over the whole thing. But it turned out pretty well. I did have post partum depression afterwards tho, and it was the worst after my third child. But at the same time my marriage was collapsing.

I have heard of a lot of bipolar women having great stable pregnancies, that more more stable then, than any other time. So I think it really depends.

Hope you keep posting!

[Passion222]

I had both my girls before I was diagnosed. I found my pregnancies very normal and "happy". It's like I need pregnancy to feel normal. Lol.

[MommaR]

I also had my children b4 I tried treatment. I was very emotional- they say its normal in all pregs but mine were extreme. They were worth it :-)

[BlackPup]

I'm currently pregnant with our first. I'm on Abilify and tofranil. There are risks to my baby but minimal, the main problem is that abilify has not been studied enough during pregnancy but my pdoc thinks that the risks are lower than if I went off meds - I was very suicidal last depression.

[BNLsMOM]

I had both kids before I was diagnosed. My first pregnancy was great, with just the normal preg-related stuff, but my mood was over all pretty stable. I became manic afterwards and quit my job, convinced my husband to quit his, moved to the western part of the state where we went to school and started life all over again with a baby. I was also either manic or mixed and divorced my husband. After I got remarried my new husband and I wanted to have a baby together and that pregnancy was tough physically and emotionally. After that pregnancy, I was really bad, episodes all over the place, I was diagnosed and spent the next 4 years in and out of hospitals. I can't say it was the pregnancy that caused it or if it were going to happen anyway. My kids were worth everything I went through. I love my little men and I can't picture my life without them. (though sometimes I want to go far away, LOL)

[ellipsisdream]

Hi- I am so glad to see you posting. Come hang out with us!

I had a really rough time during both of my pregnancies. The second was worse than the first for me, but the worse might have been due to higher stress level.

[Eliza Jane]

Originally Posted by BlackPup

I'm currently pregnant with our first. I'm on Abilify and tofranil. There are risks to my baby but minimal, the main problem is that abilify has not been studied enough during pregnancy but my pdoc thinks that the risks are lower than if I went off meds - I was very suicidal last depression.

In addition, Lamictal is a good option for many women wanting to conceive. Since the med has been used for a number of years and also used for seizures, there is a good amount of data on safety. After a failed attempt to go med-free, I switched to Lamictal for this purpose. It has been going well for me. It was hard for me to give up on being med free, but I consulted with 3 pdoc's and 2 OB's before deciding. In the end, it was pretty clear to me and the professionals involved that the benefits out-weighed the risks.

Best,
EJ

[interested2012]

Originally Posted by Eliza Jane

In addition, Lamictal is a good option for many women wanting to conceive. Since the med has been used for a number of years and also used for seizures, there is a good amount of data on safety. After a failed attempt to go med-free, I switched to Lamictal for this purpose. It has been going well for me. It was hard for me to give up on being med free, but I consulted with 3 pdoc's and 2 OB's before deciding. In the end, it was pretty clear to me and the professionals involved that the benefits out-weighed the risks.

Best,
EJ

Thanks for your reply. I did try switching to Lamictal alone but became anxious. I don't know if it was withdrawal from seroquel or my generalized anxiety resurfacing but I felt pretty crappy when I tried to make the switch. I do best on a combination of the two but I understand it's preferable to be on only one medication.

[manic most days]

Good to see you posting... We've spoken about this privately and I think the most important thing is speaking things thru with ur Dr's. Mine was a HUGE HUGE surprise so I wish I had gotten prenatals and check ups prior to the all to familiar ummm woah that wasn't gas jab but she seems healthy and ACTIVE WOAH....

[Eliza Jane]

Originally Posted by interested2012

Thanks for your reply. I did try switching to Lamictal alone but became anxious. I don't know if it was withdrawal from seroquel or my generalized anxiety resurfacing but I felt pretty crappy when I tried to make the switch. I do best on a combination of the two but I understand it's preferable to be on only one medication.

Funny you mention that, that would my one complaint about doing Lamictal alone. I also have a GAD dx (although it is much more mild than the depressive aspects of BP II for me). I'm not doing as well anxiety-wise on this med (was previously on an Abilify and Lexapro combo). However, my anxiety level has been managable enough that I can deal with it for now. If I wasn't trying to minimize meds for pregnancy, I would add another med. It sounds like your anxiety may be worse than mine though.

It is such a difficult issue for women. Everyone has their ideas of what you should and shouldn't do. Add to that many people with strong opinions have no idea what they are talking about. Consult with your docs, do your own research, and do what is best for the two of you.

Best,
EJ

[interested2012]

Originally Posted by Eliza Jane

Funny you mention that, that would my one complaint about doing Lamictal alone. I also have a GAD dx (although it is much more mild than the depressive aspects of BP II for me). I'm not doing as well anxiety-wise on this med (was previously on an Abilify and Lexapro combo). However, my anxiety level has been managable enough that I can deal with it for now. If I wasn't trying to minimize meds for pregnancy, I would add another med. It sounds like your anxiety may be worse than mine though.

It is such a difficult issue for women. Everyone has their ideas of what you should and shouldn't do. Add to that many people with strong opinions have no idea what they are talking about. Consult with your docs, do your own research, and do what is best for the two of you.

Best,
EJ

Thanks for your input. I've consulted with docs and done a ton of my own research. The problem is that it all seems to come up with "we don't know because there isn't enough data". So frustrating!

[BipolaRNurse]

I wasn't diagnosed with BP until this year, but I remember my pregnancies very well. The first three, I was b**chy, the last two merely weepy, and that was more alarming (to me, anyway) because I'm not a crier. It was what happened postpartum that, in retrospect, should've scared the hell out of everyone.

I mean, I was not only overemotional, I was basically psychotic, and after the fifth one I knew I should never have another child. With him, I actually had suicide/infanticide ideation, which was strange, because he was so precious to me since I'd nearly lost him just prior to birth. I had these grisly fantasies about lying down on the train tracks, or stepping out in front of a speeding car with him in my arms, because he was too wonderful to have to go through the kind of pain and suffering everyone else did, and because I was unworthy of having such a gift.

Now, we didn't talk of such things back then.....surely some women had these difficulties, but we were so ashamed of these awful feelings that we didn't even speak of them to each other. It wasn't until the Andrea Yates case some years later that postpartum psychosis came to public attention; what I couldn't figure out was why she didn't commit suicide after drowning her kids, because I sure would have, but in a way I understood how these things come to pass.

Fortunately, I never acted on the fantasies, but I was so deeply ashamed of those feelings that I seldom share them, even though I know now that I wasn't in full control of my faculties. How I wish I'd known then that there were medications and therapies for this! So much guilt and pain.....it still haunts me, even 21 years later.

I tell this story only because I know so much more now, having studied the effects of pregnancy on mental illness (and vice-versa). While I've never regretted having all five of my kids, if I'd known then what I know today I would have stopped after the first two, because my PP depression was worse with each successive birth until it became frank psychosis with that fifth child. Lord only knows what might've happened if I'd had a sixth. Which is a consideration every woman with mental illness, or even a history of "baby blues", must weigh when thinking about having more children. JMHO.

[BlueInanna]

Originally Posted by interested2012

My question is this: for those who have been pregnant more than once, did your mood/stability remain the same with each pregnancy? If you did well in the first pregnancy were the subsequent ones the same (or if your pregnancy was difficult in terms of your BP were your subsequent ones as well)? I am wondering if I should expect (hope) that I will do well again or if now that my disease is worse I should expect that the pregnancy will be as well.

I have 3 children (only dx'd a couple years ago with bp). Mood and stability were pretty good during 1st baby pregnancy. But I was 20, and ate very healthy almost vegetarian, except fish. Low stress, I wasn't working, but some relationship problems. Definitely had some depression and melt-downs. I had a strong but short ppd. My daughter has bp, now 18, she's doing well right now.

2nd child, I was still nursing the first, did not want to be pregnant. I was still young, 21, got pretty depressed. I used to punch myself in my stomach and hurt myself and I wanted to die. I wanted an abortion, couldn't afford it, was working full time, then next thing I knew it was too late to abort. My husband was a jerk and on drugs. My dad noticed me depressed and my belly and told me he would help me and it would be ok. The depression lifted and I fell in love with the tiny baby fluttering in my belly. I had pretty bad ppd, but it passed. He's now 16, bp severe case. I think my mood and stress during pregnancy have a part to play in his bp he has now.

3rd child, I was 28, I had a new partner who was very supportive. Low stress, lots of meditation, reduced work hours. My mood was better than with 2nd child, but I had quite a few screaming pulling hair meltdowns. I was maybe a bit hypo, much shopping and wanting sex a lot more than usual. I don't recall any ppd with him. He's now 10, no signs of bp

So I think keeping low stress, eating the healthy foods, supportive partner, a lot of relaxation and time outside in nature will be the good things that help keep mood steady during pregnancy, and post partum. Hope all goes well for you.

[Passion222]

BlueInanna my daughter was also diagnosed at 14 with BP. Guess it really runs in the family. I know teenagers are pains but too much to write but she is no doubt classic BP.

[faerie_moon_x]

I've had three children, two before diagnosis and one after. I was not on meds for any of them, but pregnancy seems to be good for my brain. I do really well. Even my last two pregnancies I was going through pretty traumatic things with both, but I did better while pregnant. Just something about it makes me strong or something, I don't know.

The first two ended with pretty bad post-pardum depression (but like I said that second one I also had some traumatic events going on.) The third one I didn't have any post pardum-depression. But I do think my bipolar is worse in general than it was when I had my second son, so I find that interesting. My boys are both a challenge and a blessing to me.

[interested2012]

Originally Posted by dark_heart_x

I've had three children, two before diagnosis and one after. I was not on meds for any of them, but pregnancy seems to be good for my brain. I do really well. Even my last two pregnancies I was going through pretty traumatic things with both, but I did better while pregnant. Just something about it makes me strong or something, I don't know.

The first two ended with pretty bad post-pardum depression (but like I said that second one I also had some traumatic events going on.) The third one I didn't have any post pardum-depression. But I do think my bipolar is worse in general than it was when I had my second son, so I find that interesting. My boys are both a challenge and a blessing to me.

Hi Dark Heart. Thank you for your response. Were you not on any medications because you were able to wean off of them or were you unmedicated before the pregnancies?

[faerie_moon_x]

Originally Posted by interested2012

Hi Dark Heart. Thank you for your response. Were you not on any medications because you were able to wean off of them or were you unmedicated before the pregnancies?

I'm not on medications because I have horrible insurance and it costs a whole cart of groceries to get in to see a psychiatirst. I was only on Lithium for about 6 months after diagnosis, that was a year before I got pregnant. And I kept forgetting to take them until I forgot all together. By then I couldn't get back in and then I was pregnant, so I just didn't bother.

I was diagnosed 3 years ago, was on lamictle for two weeks and I got a rash (which is dangerous) and then Lithium, after that nothing. I get 3 free visits to psychologist every year but not a pdoc. That's why my diagnosis is so weird. My old psychologist worked with me until she retired, now I need to find a new one.

[interested2012]

Originally Posted by dark_heart_x

I'm not on medications because I have horrible insurance and it costs a whole cart of groceries to get in to see a psychiatirst. I was only on Lithium for about 6 months after diagnosis, that was a year before I got pregnant. And I kept forgetting to take them until I forgot all together. By then I couldn't get back in and then I was pregnant, so I just didn't bother.

I was diagnosed 3 years ago, was on lamictle for two weeks and I got a rash (which is dangerous) and then Lithium, after that nothing. I get 3 free visits to psychologist every year but not a pdoc. That's why my diagnosis is so weird. My old psychologist worked with me until she retired, now I need to find a new one.

I am so sorry to hear that you don't have access to medications or to a psychiatrist. That is truly horrible. I wouldn't be alive without both. Are there no programs in your state that provide psychiatric care for those without insurance? If not, maybe there are individual psychiatrists who will provide compassionate care on a case-by-case basis? I'm sure you've looked in to the options but my heart goes out to anyone suffering with this disease because they don't have access to treatments that work.

[faerie_moon_x]

Originally Posted by interested2012

I am so sorry to hear that you don't have access to medications or to a psychiatrist. That is truly horrible. I wouldn't be alive without both. Are there no programs in your state that provide psychiatric care for those without insurance? If not, maybe there are individual psychiatrists who will provide compassionate care on a case-by-case basis? I'm sure you've looked in to the options but my heart goes out to anyone suffering with this disease because they don't have access to treatments that work.

Oh, no. Haha. My problem is because I do have insurance. Horrible aweful insurance which is also causing me physical harm now as well as mental. I also make about $170 too much a month in my state for assistance. Also, in my state, if you have insurance already you get 0 assistance, because obviously you have the money for the insurance...

My insurance costs $15,000 a year and I can't get the help I need. That's how awesome healthcare is in our country. Hurray for us!

[interested2012]

Originally Posted by dark_heart_x

Oh, no. Haha. My problem is because I do have insurance. Horrible aweful insurance which is also causing me physical harm now as well as mental. I also make about $170 too much a month in my state for assistance. Also, in my state, if you have insurance already you get 0 assistance, because obviously you have the money for the insurance...

My insurance costs $15,000 a year and I can't get the help I need. That's how awesome healthcare is in our country. Hurray for us!

That really sucks. Maybe there are some psychiatrists in your area who provide care free of charge or at a reduced cost for people in your situation?

[fbeuk]

I am a mom of 4. They were all born before my diagnosis. I had depression in all of my pregnancies, but the 4th was what led to my diagnosis. I was in a hole I couldn't get out of. I felt like the baby was the cause of all my pain. Towards the end of my pregnancy I had thoughts of hurting the baby, wanting to get her out because I was sure I'd feel better if she was just out of me. Dr wanted to hospitalize me, but instead my husband took time off and spent the rest at home with me. Worst experience in my life, however I think if I had known I was bipolar it would have helped some, at least I would know why it felt that way. They were painful but I'd never give them up. I wouldn't ever go into another pregnancy without a really solid game plan. Good luck!