I posted a post a week or so ago on by initial diagnosis of Bipolar which was changed to Borderline Personality Disorder. I would like to explore something that I am exploring in psychodynamic psychotherapy and see if this resonates with people.

My story is that I was seperated from my biological Mother in the first few weeks of my life then fostered and adopted. The family that brought me up had there own problems and I was either overindulged with love or harshly spoken to and controlled and put down. My Pop was very passive and my Mom often agressive and dominant but with occasional warmth.

I had mood swings for years and suffered a breakdown when I was in my 20's which I know now through hypnotherapy and other alternative forms of thereapy was the repressed unconscious feelings of seperation emerging into my conscious mind after experimenting with cannabis. There were alot of psychotic aspects to the breakdown also and I still feel I have not fully recovered from it but it has been a very transformative process.

I traced my biological Mom a few years later and my mood swings became pretty intolerable. I would have paralysing depressions followed by bliss like states. In my 20's I nearly became a Buddhist monk because of this annihilatory depressive feeling followed by periods of bliss.

This has gone on for 20 years or so and is improving now with psychotherapy. In recent my mood is much more irritable and depressive than blissful but the bliss is still there. That is why I was concerned about the BPD diagnosis because it appears to suggest lack of periods of blissful type feelings.

My moods swings have even occured when I see the psychotherapist each week. Excitement and bliss feelings followed by crippling depressions when I arrive in therapy. I can just about manage to control them but they are still there.

The good news is the pdoc who is Freudian in thought maintains that these are a defence against the very early disruptions I have had. I was concerned about any genetic issues and he does maintain that I could have inherited a temparemental genetic disposition but doesn't think that there is a strong genetic disposition towards very severe mental illness (though I would maintain my symptoms HAVE been very severe over the years).

If we leave the issue of diagnosis to one side for the time being. Does what I say resonate with a number of people here? That the blissful feelings seem to be a defence against something deep inside or should I perhaps be posting this elsewhere?

[faerie_moon_x]

I have never heard of elation as a defense mechanism before. But, I don't experience elation any more. I used to when I was a teen into young adulthood, but my mania has become dysphoric.

I personally believe that genetic disposition is common, but that's just me and I'm not a doctor or anything.

And you can have BPD and bipolar at the same time. There are quite a few members here who have that dx.

Dark Heart,

Thanks for exploring this with me. It does help to discuss my own personal experience and in my teens especially I used to get really artificially blissfully happy. The bliss is still there but I have feelings more of major irritability these days. I am also scared of the bliss because of a fear of it going away.

The reason I posted about defense mechanisms and my story is because there is some evidence about this especially with reference to BPD and Cyclothymic Disorder as well. The quote below is interesting:

''Most psychodynamic theories postulate that the development of cyclothymic disorder lies in traumas and fixations during the oral stage of infant development. Freud hypothesized that the cyclothymic state is the ego’s attempt to overcome a harsh and punitive superego. Hypomania is explained psychodynamically as the lack of self-criticism and an absence of inhibitions occurring when a depressed person throws off the burden of an overly harsh superego. The major defense mechanism in hypomania is denial, by which the patient avoids external problems and internal feelings of depression.
Patients with cyclothymic disorder are characterized by periods of depression alternating with periods of hypomania. Psychoanalytic exploration reveals that such patients defend themselves against underlying depressive themes with their euphoric or hypomanic periods. Hypomania is frequently triggered by a profound interpersonal loss. The false euphoria generated in such instances is a patient’s way to deny dependence on love objects and simultaneously disavow any aggression or destructiveness that may be associated with the loss of the loved person.''

Most psychiatrists will tell you, I think, that the hypomanic state is a reaction to depression rather than a defense mechanism--maybe they're synonymous, but I distinguish some
difference in meaning between the two.

Cyclothymia is considered a mild form of bipolar disorder. Bipolar I is the most severe
form; Bipolar II is related to strong depressive states that are very painful, but no manic
states; hypomanic states occur in Bipolar, type II. There are also now Bipolar III
and Bipolar IV diagnoses. (And one called Bipolar NOS, meaning no conclusive evidence
has been determined as to which form of bipolar illness it is)

The overly severe conscience is very much part of bipolar illness for some.

[ultramar]

I'm in psychodynamic psychotherapy, but not Freudian per se, it would be considered part of the more contemporary field of psychodynamic therapy which is largely divorced from (though not entirely) Freudian theory and is very relational in nature (none of the silent, blank slate deal, by a long shot).

In any case, it sounds like what you're describing might be a kind of compartmentalization of emotion? The elation as a kind of dissociation from and/or staunch (and unconscious) denial of negative affect. I can see, from a certain point of view, how elation (of a sort) could be a defense against overwhelming negative emotion.

I don't know if this is accurate, but as far as BPD, insofar as it's characterized in part by dysregulation of emotion, it would make sense that *both* depression and 'up' states are in dysregulation. In other words, the inability to regulate both negative and positive emotion, such that the positive emotion also becomes too intense to tolerate just as depressive states are too intense to tolerate. This occurs to me now, but I don't know if research bears it out.

Has your therapist mentioned any other reasons behind elated states? It's an interesting topic because surely there are plenty of people who become elated/blissful for whatever reason or no discernible reason, and yet are not bipolar.

People who are elated only for minutes at a time, or say an hour (and then change moods) are usually not diagnosed with bipolar, but this doesn't explain why that person was elated (however short-lived) in the first place. Interesting topic.

[Happy Camper]

I find this very interesting as I've thought about my highs being defense mechanisms before. Sometimes in extreme distress or neurotic worrying, I sort of just let it all go. This would feel so good it was almost a sort of anxious "synthetic" hypomania, a kind of bliss resulting from mental blockage.

I've rapid cycled before from extreme lows to highs in seconds, but I've also had several month long episodes where I become more and more obsessed with a number of projects and come off as grandiose or even insane to anyone who will listen. I'm guessing this was mania or some form of temporary paranoia and delusional thinking

I think I may be a quiet borderline, but I'm not fully convinced that I'm bipolar, or at least not just bipolar.

[middlepath]

I understand where you are coming from and think that *some* episodes can be a defense mechanism for me. I is a way (as ultramar put it) to dissociate which is one of my defense mechanisms at times. There certainly are times when I have no control and my emotional volatility is unpredictable. There are rare occasions where there is a small instant after receiving tough/triggering news that a barely conscious portion of my brain decides to either fold OR become giddy. Giddy can be inappropriate but the ability to "check out" and deny facing a problem for awhile occasionally makes sense. So I say, yes, elation can be a defense mechanism. I can FEEL those episodes versus a bipolar shift though...they feel different to me.

I explored these blissful states with my therapist because they are a common part of my condition. The psychotherapist considers them a defence mechanism against the disruption of my early attachments. We have to remember that these are extremely early disruptions when the infant mind is purely emotion and cannot conceptualise things like the loss of the Mother.

He also says that the ''other side of my blissful coin'' are things like paranoia and agitation. It is with these blissful states combined at the same time often with a feeling of agitation and even depression and anxiety which led me to question the BPD diagnosis or at least just me solely having that.

Interesting how that when I was a teenager the elation would seem to last for days. Now as I am older agitation is the key along with depression of course but the bliss has still lasted for the best part of a day at times.

What also has kept me off the meds is the fact that I have uncovered a 'primal type' scream during regression therapy which signifies possibly the underlying trauma(s) triggering my condition. That is useful for me but the really important thing is since that happened and through the last 20 years of my life since my breakdown I have not managed to release fully the pain and the reason I sought diagnosis of some sorts was just the trouble I was getting in at work etc when I had complaints against me, poor time keeping, changes in productivity etc.

I believe these cycles are also a result of these early disruptions and signify a profound loss and the excitement of thinking I can return to something quite magical and blissful with associated behaviours. The psychiatrist calls it searching for a nirvana like state which sums it up very well.

Also having to tell one's story like this can be difficult. I feel there is a sense of shame in it all. Not sure why but I do but it helps talking

[faerie_moon_x]

For me, thinking back, I can think of very specific cases of euphoric mania that I had in my late teens and early twenties. In those times I felt extremely powerful. I was not defensive at all. It was more like I was completely unhinged.

I had that whole "life of the party" thing people discuss. I can see why, in looking back, a lot of people would do the whole "back away slowly while smiling" type of response to me. I was completely hyperactive during these phases. And, once I was home alone, it didn't stop. I could gladly bounce off the walls all by myself while talking to Other me and all the imaginary talk show interveiws, etc in my head.

My house had a wall down the middle. You could walk in a circle: living room > hallway > kitchen > dinning room > den > living room. I would walk around for hours and hours. It wasn't uncommon to do that for 2-3 hours at a time. Around and around. One time I walked in a circle for 6 hours talking to myself. I was home alone a lot, my dad worked evenings and I came home from school so he was alredy gone, so I could talk as loud as I want, sing, dance, skip, etc.

So, this is why for me, I don't believe it was defense.

I used to have similar things especially in teen years. It is since then that through various forms of therapy I have learnt to believe that the elated blissful feelings I have had have been a response to very early disruptions.

They used to come out of nowhere and I didn't know what they were but I have traced the source of them which I know now are from my early disruptions through various forms of therapy alternative and otherwise.

I still have the blissful experiences but I believe I know where they originate. It is just learning how to control them and ensure that they do not affect my functioning.

Originally Posted by ultramar

I'm in psychodynamic psychotherapy, but not Freudian per se, it would be considered part of the more contemporary field of psychodynamic therapy which is largely divorced from (though not entirely) Freudian theory and is very relational in nature (none of the silent, blank slate deal, by a long shot).

In any case, it sounds like what you're describing might be a kind of compartmentalization of emotion? The elation as a kind of dissociation from and/or staunch (and unconscious) denial of negative affect. I can see, from a certain point of view, how elation (of a sort) could be a defense against overwhelming negative emotion.

I don't know if this is accurate, but as far as BPD, insofar as it's characterized in part by dysregulation of emotion, it would make sense that *both* depression and 'up' states are in dysregulation. In other words, the inability to regulate both negative and positive emotion, such that the positive emotion also becomes too intense to tolerate just as depressive states are too intense to tolerate. This occurs to me now, but I don't know if research bears it out.

Has your therapist mentioned any other reasons behind elated states? It's an interesting topic because surely there are plenty of people who become elated/blissful for whatever reason or no discernible reason, and yet are not bipolar.

People who are elated only for minutes at a time, or say an hour (and then change moods) are usually not diagnosed with bipolar, but this doesn't explain why that person was elated (however short-lived) in the first place. Interesting topic.

Ultramar,

I have found this also from the web after exploring early loss and borderline/cyclothymia.

Things are becoming quite a bit clearer to me now. I have never really looked into the psychodynamic therapy I have been having but the quote below really applies to me.

The problem I had moving my bipolar diagnosis to borderline was that I had the borderline symptoms but still had a cycle of elated bliss like symptoms which could crash into crippling depressions. Affective instability in borderline is from irritability to depression and anxiety to depression but most commentators say movements from depression to elation and vice versa don't generally occur.

I think I have elements of cyclothymia and borderline. Indeed, the psychotherapists mentions cycles and it is a key part of our work. Question is will I be stable enough after the course of psychotherapy has worked?

I will be able to answer that in a year maybe and I hope some of these posts have been helpful to people with borderline, bipolar or dual diagnosis?

''Most psychodynamic theorists believe that the psychosocial origins of cyclothymia lie in early traumas and unmet needs dating back to the earliest stages of childhood development. Hypomania has been described as a deficiency of self-criticism and an absence of inhibitions. The patient is believed to use denial to avoid external problems and internal feelings of depression. Hypomania is also believed to be frequently triggered by profound interpersonal loss. The false feeling of euphoria (giddy or intense happiness) that arises in such instances serves as a protection against painful feelings of sadness, and even possibly anger against the lost loved one.''