[wushuduck]

Is rapid cycling where your mood changes on the hourly? If not, what's that? Sorry, I'm a bit out of the loop with this stuff.

[Resident Bipolar]

With normal Bipolar Disorder, a patient will have periods of stable mood in-between episodes of (hypo)mania and depression.

"Rapid Cycling bipolar disorder is often diagnosed when a patient has four or more mood episodes during a 12-month period. This essentially means that an individual with rapid cycling bipolar disorder can constantly cycle between periods of (hypo)mania and depression, without any periods of stable mood in between each episode. In fact – that’s the criteria of a rapid cycling bipolar disorder diagnoses (under DSM-IV).

Ultra Rapid Cycling bipolar disorder is rather rare. It’s a lot like rapid cycling, except ultra rapid cycling patients can experience multiple periods of hypomania and depression each day. A patient experiencing ultra rapid cycling will not have any period of ‘normal mood’ between the many cycles they experience throughout the day. The understanding of this type of bipolar disorder is still being researched and is still debated by those in the psychiatry industry.

Cyclothamia is part of the Bipolar spectrum and is characterised by frequent changes in mood and cycles between hypomania and mild to moderate depression. It is thought that those with Cyclothamia experience episodes in a lower severity than those of Bipolar I and Bipolar II. Unlike rapid cycling and indeed ultra rapid cycling, Cyclothamia is a diagnoses in itself – the prior two are actually just used in conjunction with a Bipolar I or Bipolar II diagnoses. Despite the lower severity of individual episodes, Cyclothamia can be devastating to someone’s life purely because of the frequency of mood cycles."

Taken from my blog.

I also need to add that ultra ultra rapid cycling (Ultradian) Bipolar can mean multiple episodes in a single day, whereas Ultra Rapid Cycling could be slightly more infrequent, with a change in state after a matter of days.

Hope that helps!
RB.

[monochromatic]

Thanks resident, I didn't realize that there would be no normal period between cycles.

Hmmm. Pdoc has diagnosed me rapid cycling, and my moods shift every 2-3 days, or sometimes every day. There have been days where I've had a high and a low in a 12 hour period. But I always seem to have normal periods in between, so I don't know.

Personally, I think I'm in a mixed state that's just higher, or lower, depending on circumstances.

Whatever it is, it's feckin awful.

[ultramar]

"Rapid Cycling bipolar disorder is often diagnosed when a patient has four or more mood episodes during a 12-month period. This essentially means that an individual with rapid cycling bipolar disorder can constantly cycle between periods of (hypo)mania and depression, without any periods of stable mood in between each episode.

I think if you're having, say, 4-5 episodes a year, it's perfectly plausible to have a lot of time in between episodes of 'normal'/'baseline.'

I think rapid cycling in general does assume that there exists a baseline mood. I think, my personal opinion, that mood shifts in a given day, over a day or two, may likely be at least in part due to situational mood reactions.

OP, does your pdoc know that you are cycling within a given day and/or day to day at times? Has he/she discussed the possibility that some of these moods (*not* necessarily all, of course) may be due to situational/environmental issues? Sometimes even non-bipolar moods can come about for no apparent reason, or there is a trigger that we just haven't identified yet.

I actually recently posted an article about rapid cycling and one of the things that it points out is that if someone is constantly dysregulated, attributing all of these mood shifts to bipolar can put someone in a position of feeling out of control of all of these moods, when it's possible that at times these can be controlled by other (non-medication) means.

Are you in therapy? Perhaps working on mood regulation might help with *some* of these mood shifts, which would give you a lot more breathing room, so to speak, in your daily life.

[wushuduck]

Originally Posted by ultramar

"Rapid Cycling bipolar disorder is often diagnosed when a patient has four or more mood episodes during a 12-month period. This essentially means that an individual with rapid cycling bipolar disorder can constantly cycle between periods of (hypo)mania and depression, without any periods of stable mood in between each episode.

I think if you're having, say, 4-5 episodes a year, it's perfectly plausible to have a lot of time in between episodes of 'normal'/'baseline.'

I think rapid cycling in general does assume that there exists a baseline mood. I think, my personal opinion, that mood shifts in a given day, over a day or two, may likely be at least in part due to situational mood reactions.

OP, does your pdoc know that you are cycling within a given day and/or day to day at times? Has he/she discussed the possibility that some of these moods (*not* necessarily all, of course) may be due to situational/environmental issues? Sometimes even non-bipolar moods can come about for no apparent reason, or there is a trigger that we just haven't identified yet.

I actually recently posted an article about rapid cycling and one of the things that it points out is that if someone is constantly dysregulated, attributing all of these mood shifts to bipolar can put someone in a position of feeling out of control of all of these moods, when it's possible that at times these can be controlled by other (non-medication) means.

Are you in therapy? Perhaps working on mood regulation might help with *some* of these mood shifts, which would give you a lot more breathing room, so to speak, in your daily life.

Hey, thanks for the reply.

I've not seen my pdoc in a couple of months but I'm going to be visiting her in the morning because I've been quite bad lately. I've not been diagnosed with anything because I don't think I've been seen to long enough (about 4 months on and off) and, frankly, I never really wanted to ask for a diagnoses, but I might do. I was only asking here in the bipolar section as I thought there would be more better informed people on this sort of stuff in here. I do suspect I might be bipolar, but I'm not going to self diagnose and, to speak rationally, I am a massive hypochondriac!

Nope, I haven't started therapy yet, I'm still on the waiting list but I should begin within the next few months. It's CBT, I don't know if that helps with mood shifts but I hope it does.

[vanessaG]

Wow, i would love even 2 days of feeling 'normal' for me... I cant even imagine weeks or more! My normal cycling i'd say is every week to week and a half or so....

So pretty much a week disabling depression, then a week on, catching up from previous week. Sometimes ill have like 2 days of mixed episodes before transitioning into depression or hypo. Fun times, i know! Ugh!

[Resident Bipolar]

Originally Posted by ultramar

"Rapid Cycling bipolar disorder is often diagnosed when a patient has four or more mood episodes during a 12-month period. This essentially means that an individual with rapid cycling bipolar disorder can constantly cycle between periods of (hypo)mania and depression, without any periods of stable mood in between each episode.

I think if you're having, say, 4-5 episodes a year, it's perfectly plausible to have a lot of time in between episodes of 'normal'/'baseline.'

I think rapid cycling in general does assume that there exists a baseline mood. I think, my personal opinion, that mood shifts in a given day, over a day or two, may likely be at least in part due to situational mood reactions.

OP, does your pdoc know that you are cycling within a given day and/or day to day at times? Has he/she discussed the possibility that some of these moods (*not* necessarily all, of course) may be due to situational/environmental issues? Sometimes even non-bipolar moods can come about for no apparent reason, or there is a trigger that we just haven't identified yet.

I actually recently posted an article about rapid cycling and one of the things that it points out is that if someone is constantly dysregulated, attributing all of these mood shifts to bipolar can put someone in a position of feeling out of control of all of these moods, when it's possible that at times these can be controlled by other (non-medication) means.

Are you in therapy? Perhaps working on mood regulation might help with *some* of these mood shifts, which would give you a lot more breathing room, so to speak, in your daily life.

I believe that generally rapid cycling is diagnosed with there isn't typically a period if what would be classed as a "normal mood". From what I remember from how it was explained to me, a patient with rapid cycling Bipolar Disorder will always be in either a state of some severity of depression or a state of some sort of severity of (hypomania) - this is without the correct treatment, of course.

Ultradian cycling bipolar disorder (ultra ultra rapid cycling) can involve multiple episodes of depression and hypomania in a single day. Rapid cycling is nowhere near the same. Research is, however, still ongoing.

RB.

[BipolaRNurse]

But what do you call it when you do have stable moods between episodes, that just don't last very long? The lengthiest period of stability I've had was 2 months, and that lasted from early Agust to mid-October before the choo-choo went off the rails again. Isn't that rapid cycling? My pdoc seems to think so, although personally I don't reall care WHAT the hell it's called, I'm sick of it and I want to go back to where I was in the late summer and early fall when I felt totally normal.

[IndieVisible]

Yea it is confusing as hell. When I was orig diagnosed with major depression, I understood that. Then the next year when another doc took over changed to bipolar. But I don't see me fitting in any of the time frames and durations so I'm at loss as to what the heck I am. I have gone as long as 5 years with normal or close to normal, not perfectly normal, but pretty stable and off meds too! Average is about a year or 2. Now when I get depressed, it can be for a day or a week or a month next I can go baseline or go directly to hypomania. I don't think I ever had full blown mania but my delusions and hallucinations seem to indicate I have. These periods can last a day a week , 2 weeks or even a month. There doesn't seem to be any freaking pattern to me. I brought this up to the pdoc, she just says "your bipolar trust me". Drives me nuts some times.

[JoyDivision7680]

I usually have a lengthy depression episode followed by a short hypomanic one every day, but sometimes I can go several days only feeling depressed. Sometimes, at school, I tend to act childish but I doubt it's a hypomanic episode since I don't feel any euphoria. Or it can be a mixed one, with depression being stronger, hence my difficulty to recognise hypomania. Confusing.

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by MotherMan

I usually have a lengthy depression episode followed by a short hypomanic one every day, but sometimes I can go several days only feeling depressed. Sometimes, at school, I tend to act childish but I doubt it's a hypomanic episode since I don't feel any euphoria. Or it can be a mixed one, with depression being stronger, hence my difficulty to recognise hypomania. Confusing.

Getting depressed almost every day seems very disabling --are you in therapy, on meds? Hopefully with the right help, those can lessen in frequency.

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by BipolaRNurse

But what do you call it when you do have stable moods between episodes, that just don't last very long? The lengthiest period of stability I've had was 2 months, and that lasted from early Agust to mid-October before the choo-choo went off the rails again. Isn't that rapid cycling? My pdoc seems to think so, although personally I don't reall care WHAT the hell it's called, I'm sick of it and I want to go back to where I was in the late summer and early fall when I felt totally normal.

I guess the 'label' would be rapid cycling (4 or episodes a year, normal in between) --but weren't you stable for longer periods before the first circles of hell started at work? If that's the case, and I actually have no idea if this is possible, but I wonder if having a big episode could kind of destabilize someone for a while, make them cycle more rapidly for a period of time? Dunno.

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by IndieVisible

Yea it is confusing as hell. When I was orig diagnosed with major depression, I understood that. Then the next year when another doc took over changed to bipolar. But I don't see me fitting in any of the time frames and durations so I'm at loss as to what the heck I am. I have gone as long as 5 years with normal or close to normal, not perfectly normal, but pretty stable and off meds too! Average is about a year or 2. Now when I get depressed, it can be for a day or a week or a month next I can go baseline or go directly to hypomania. I don't think I ever had full blown mania but my delusions and hallucinations seem to indicate I have. These periods can last a day a week , 2 weeks or even a month. There doesn't seem to be any freaking pattern to me. I brought this up to the pdoc, she just says "your bipolar trust me". Drives me nuts some times.

I suspect not everyone's episodes are the same each occurrence, maybe that's what you're talking about? Apart from all of this confusion (and it *is* confusing for many of us) it sounds like you just don't cycle very often and this happens; people can go years without an episode, or have on average 1-2 a year, whatever.

[Resident Bipolar]

My matters complicate things further, well for me, my psychiatrist however nods and says "yes" every time I try to talk to her about it, therefore I assume she knows what's happening at least.

What happens with me is that I'll have a sort of overalls depressive episodes which cycles to a manic episode which each last for about a few weeks to a month. However, during each of these episodes I can cycle daily from extremes within the extremes. I've been told I have Ultradian cycling but that sometimes it can slow down and speed up. She (my psychiatrist) said it could also be because my meds lose and gain efficacy depending on other factors, hence at times I'll cycle at different rates.

Very confusing indeed.
RB.

[EternalWinter]

Sorry but am I the only one who sometimes feels really hypo in the day time, then night comes and I feel down as hell. Which is why I sometimes dont stay up all night when feeling hypo one day. Does that make me have Ultradian cycling bipolar disorder.

I dont think so because of how rare it is... anyone else get that?

[IndieVisible]

Originally Posted by EternalWinter

Sorry but am I the only one who sometimes feels really hypo in the day time, then night comes and I feel down as hell. Which is why I sometimes dont stay up all night when feeling hypo one day. Does that make me have Ultradian cycling bipolar disorder.

I dont think so because of how rare it is... anyone else get that?

sounds like a mix state I've had that too, or up and down a few times during a 24 hour period. I'm glad I'm not the only one all over the map!

My understanding and belief about this is that rapid cycling is 4 or more times a year. This does not mean multiple times a day. If your mood is changing multiple times a day its highly likely there is something other than Bipolar going on.

It is VERY rare to have Ultradian or ultra ultra rapid cycling cycling an in no way am I suggesting someone diganosed with it does not have it, but far far too many people self diagnose and will then neglect to find the real issues causing the mood swings.

I am so incredibly thankful that I do not rapid cycle - in any sense of the word.

Originally Posted by EternalWinter

Sorry but am I the only one who sometimes feels really hypo in the day time, then night comes and I feel down as hell. Which is why I sometimes dont stay up all night when feeling hypo one day. Does that make me have Ultradian cycling bipolar disorder.

I dont think so because of how rare it is... anyone else get that?

Does not sound like a mixed state nor ultradian cycling to me. More like there are environmental factors affecting your mood states. What are you doing during the day and night? Anything that could be hyping you up or bringing you down?

[JoyDivision7680]

Originally Posted by ultramar

Getting depressed almost every day seems very disabling --are you in therapy, on meds? Hopefully with the right help, those can lessen in frequency.

It can be disaling, yes, depending on the triggers - those can be killer! I stopped my meds a month ago, they weren't helping me at all (it's true I was taking the natural type of antidepressants). I'm starting to dislike hypomania because it can turn into my worst trigger, due to the stupid things I may do or say during the episode...