[Khione]

I've wondered about bipolar for as long as I've been receiving mental health treatment. I'm tired of writing out my life story as a way to explain symptoms so I'm going to try bullet-pointing it and see if that works. Any help is appreciated, my head and my life are getting stressful and out of control at the moment.

- impulsivity; I am impulsive when it comes to good things and bad things, I also have impulsive thoughts which often involve dangerous things (like stabbing myself or grabbing the steering wheel of my boyfriend's car whilst he's driving). I've never acted on the thoughts, but the lesser actions are a common occurrence for me. At the end of last month, I got paid by the people I receive benefits from. I then spent the whole lot of money I got on a holiday for me and my boyfriend. Yesterday, I spent a grand on a MacBook. This is money I really don't have to spare and would be much more suited to other things. Regardless, the money was spent and it was a there and then decision in both cases. I didn't go away and think about it etc. I also moved countries twice in the last 4 years to live with an alcoholic father just because I could, again, decisions I didn't think about. My impulsive behaviour carries through to when I'm depressed as well, it got to a point where I overdosed one day just because I didn't want to live, even though the day before that, even the morning of that day, I was looking forward to the future. I just saw tablets and overdosed. I ended up in hospital. Two weeks later I did the same thing again.

- periods of happiness/depression; I will experience about two to three months of severe depression - not getting out of bed, not leaving my house or showering, not eating, sleeping all day. Then, one morning I will wake up and for about a week, I'll go into the city centre every day shopping, I'll spend all my money, I'll decide I want to start studying Law and I'll buy books and all that stuff. This is also the time where I would get drunk and do drugs etc, but my boyfriend is really good and doesn't let me anywhere near any of that stuff. And I'll be relatively happy. My anxiety also gets worse during this time.

- extreme irritability/anger; I have huge outbursts of anger. It scares the living hell out of me. I would never hurt a person or my dog, but I've had the feeling too. It's horrible. I've badly bruised my knuckles punching a wall, I've broken a window with my hand, I've smashed my phone against the wall and every door in my house has holes in it. When it get's bad, I get psychotic, like I turn into a crazy person.. honest to God. My mother has threatened to call the police on me a number of times. I've also dead-bolt locked her out the house when she took the key so I couldn't do just that, so I found a screwdriver and almost broke the door. Sometimes this comes out of nowhere, my mother will come home from work and I'll just lose it over nothing.

- relationships; I'm unable to keep and hold a relationship, aside from my boyfriend, every relationship I've had in the last five years has either been detrimental to my health or just none-existent. I latch on to people when I'm 'happy' and I don't let go, I can get obsessive and be extremely clingy. When I'm 'depressed' the person almost doesn't exist to me. I'll cut them off for no reason and not speak to them for months. And then that will cause relationships to break down and end - friend relationships have been most affected. I used to have a good friend group of about 4 people, granted they all had mental health problems and they probably made my mental health worse, but one day I decided to stop talking to them for no reason and I haven't spoken to them in a year or two.

Those are the main things and I could have split the bullet points up into further points but whatever. Right now, I'm in a middle stage where I'm not full on depressed but I'm not happy either. I'm just sat on my new MacBook feeling pretty... just fine. Nothing in particular.

Does anyone have any advice or can anyone say whether this sounds like bipolar? I really want to bring it up to my doctor and hopefully get some proper help if this is the case.

[RomanJames2014]

I'm not a psychiatrist but it almost seems like there a bits of bipolar as well as maybe Borderline Personality Disorder, only because you bring up relationships being affect and how you become clingy.

However, my bipolar definitely disrupts my relationships with friends and stuff. I might have a commitment and whilst going manic may go out partying and sleeping around only to have to explain where I was to my friends and why I didn't show up.

The long term parts as well as the depression seem accurate to bipolar including the distance from others.

Definitely bring it up to your treatment specialist.

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[Khione]

Originally Posted by RomanJames2014

I'm not a psychiatrist but it almost seems like there a bits of bipolar as well as maybe Borderline Personality Disorder, only because you bring up relationships being affect and how you become clingy.

However, my bipolar definitely disrupts my relationships with friends and stuff. I might have a commitment and whilst going manic may go out partying and sleeping around only to have to explain where I was to my friends and why I didn't show up.

The long term parts as well as the depression seem accurate to bipolar including the distance from others.

Definitely bring it up to your treatment specialist.

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Thanks a lot. I'm not sure whether I should wait until the 1st of April to speak to my not-qualified-pretty-clueless therapist or should I book a doctors appointment and see if they can refer me to someone else? I see my doctor on Thursday, that's why I thought about it.

[Ocean Swimmer]

Also an idea. Get your hormones and thyroid checked.

[Khione]

Originally Posted by Ocean Swimmer

Also an idea. Get your hormones and thyroid checked.

I've had them checked about a month ago, they're fine. It was related to something else, but regardless, my hormones and thyroid is apparently fine.

[Icare dixit]

I agree with RomanJames: could be BP and a personality to match (BPD). The "impulsive" thinking would be obsessions. That they are rather about endangering oneself and others could also be due to a personality near the "psychotic spectrum" borderline (BPD). It would rather depend on the person you "try" to endanger: are you close? If so, BPD is not an unlikely causative factor (it could still partly be caused by other anxiety/neurotic (cf. psychotic) issues). If not (only), it could be a more classic form of neuroticism. A personality near the borderline (i.e. borderline personality disorder; BPD) can cause such obsessive thoughts but an anxiety disorder alone can do the same. What's more, very many people have such obsessions in a mild, "background" form. Only if they take centre stage or you add compulsions (you actually do endanger people or you do something else harmful as a result of your obsessions) is it something to treat. Otherwise, it is just something to analyse to see whether it is (only and) "typically" a borderline personality trait or not.

I use this phraseology about BPD, which is rather uncommon, but certainly not incorrect, to talk about borderline, to put it into perspective: how it relates to psychotic disorders.

It is a personality one develops and that literally borders on psychotic behaviour.

Now, there could be two reasons for this: you have real psychotic (e.g. BP, but schizophrenia is also very well possible) vulnerabilities/tendencies. A personality that is very much like BP, in that case, helps to deal with the underlying psychotic problems (not in the best of ways, but at least it does). High expression and confusion about emotions (especially in relation to others) is common. Seeing criticism as a total nullification/denial of oneself is common. Sabotaging relationships (as self-protection and to give a "valid" reason for emotional turmoil) and oneself (e.g. one's health) is common. Reactive, short mood changes are common. Impulsivity is likely.

Personally I suspect it could be very well that BP and BPD coincide.

However, a borderline divides two areas/categories. On the other side one (likely) first finds unipolar depression. The borderline personality in this case is also used to give expression to (internal) emotional turmoil and confusion. However, other more psychotic tendencies don't need this relatively regulated/controlled release. There (probably in general) tends to be less impulsivity. Finding reasons for feeling depressed, however, may still cause self-sabotaging behaviour and strong emotional reactivity might still occur, but tends to cause depression more so than strong feelings of happiness, joy and elation and impulsivity: unipolar versus bipolar disorder lite.

I would say BPD is more likely than BP, but BPD and BP are more likely than BPD and depression only. Schizophrenia, another possibility (but relatively unlikely) is very unlikely, I think (or you must be leaving stuff out).

Good luck at the doctor's. I would wait till the 1st of April. If it is BP, get used to waiting a lot longer, probably. Average time to get the proper treatment is about 10 years. Take your time to really analyse your problems, keeping an open mind, but hopefully this helps a bit.

Edit:
NHS and all, I'd say it's rather 30 years. Just kidding...

But do come prepared: history of problems, any energy and activity changes throughout your life: periods of sleepless nights or "obsessive" goal-directed activity, not doing as one is told leading to serious problems or missed chances, regretting it later during periods of depression. Feeling guilty for being different and blowing things, but not always. Feelings of being out of control.

Really losing control (so not just buying stuff, but buying stuff despite you realising (maybe told numerous times) it is really gonna cause problems (but you will earn so much money later that it's all fine and carefully planned, you might think)) distinguishes between a problematic, borderline, personality and BP. Nothing can go wrong! It's all under control! Try and stop me, I dare you! (fond memories... Really. But I am always a bit crazy. Do find a way to keep it under control, but never feel guilty for it: never feel guilty for who you are).

Another edit:
It is also helpful to analyse whether your GAD and SAD issues are secondary to any psychotic problems, your anxiety problems are primary to any psychotic problems (them being secondary to your anxiety) or it works and started in perfect harmony.

These problems tend to highly interact, but it is good to know what started it or is the main catalyst.

Removing that problem first is the best way to approach your problems: you may find that your social anxiety was, for example, caused by a mild delusional belief that people are intent on hurting you in some way. Your GAD may arise out of a tacit belief that others can read your mind or you can read theirs or a belief there is some outside influence always present in your life, but you cannot pinpoint what. Similarly, especially the former could cause social anxiety, of course.

If there is an underlying psychotic problem, you may benefit from antipsychotic. Otherwise, an anxiolytic may be more appropriate (be careful with antidepressants: they might even be the cause of your anger or loss of impulse control).

Anxiety in turn can cause psychotic problems to appear and intensify. Anxiety caused by losing control and/or feelings of impending failure and/or associated depression and/or excitement caused by greater and greater challenges and/or stress/anxiety due to tight deadlines/rules can quickly cause a dangerous, very fast, risky, high-stakes game of ping-pong: a very hard to follow, tight, positive feedback loop.

[Melmo]

Sounds like me. I haven't been diagnosed with bipolar but I've been wondering too. The anger is the worst right now.

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[Icare dixit]

I admit my answer was a bit short. If you want to know more: buy my book.

[Khione]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

I agree with RomanJames: could be BP and a personality to match (BPD). The "impulsive" thinking would be obsessions. That they are rather about endangering oneself and others could also be due to a personality near the "psychotic spectrum" borderline (BPD). It would rather depend on the person you "try" to endanger: are you close? If so, BPD is not an unlikely causative factor (it could still partly be caused by other anxiety/neurotic (cf. psychotic) issues). If not (only), it could be a more classic form of neuroticism. A personality near the borderline (i.e. borderline personality disorder; BPD) can cause such obsessive thoughts but an anxiety disorder alone can do the same. What's more, very many people have such obsessions in a mild, "background" form. Only if they take centre stage or you add compulsions (you actually do endanger people or you do something else harmful as a result of your obsessions) is it something to treat. Otherwise, it is just something to analyse to see whether it is (only and) "typically" a borderline personality trait or not.

I use this phraseology about BPD, which is rather uncommon, but certainly not incorrect, to talk about borderline, to put it into perspective: how it relates to psychotic disorders.

It is a personality one develops and that literally borders on psychotic behaviour.

Now, there could be two reasons for this: you have real psychotic (e.g. BP, but schizophrenia is also very well possible) vulnerabilities/tendencies. A personality that is very much like BP, in that case, helps to deal with the underlying psychotic problems (not in the best of ways, but at least it does). High expression and confusion about emotions (especially in relation to others) is common. Seeing criticism as a total nullification/denial of oneself is common. Sabotaging relationships (as self-protection and to give a "valid" reason for emotional turmoil) and oneself (e.g. one's health) is common. Reactive, short mood changes are common. Impulsivity is likely.

Personally I suspect it could be very well that BP and BPD coincide.

However, a borderline divides two areas/categories. On the other side one (likely) first finds unipolar depression. The borderline personality in this case is also used to give expression to (internal) emotional turmoil and confusion. However, other more psychotic tendencies don't need this relatively regulated/controlled release. There (probably in general) tends to be less impulsivity. Finding reasons for feeling depressed, however, may still cause self-sabotaging behaviour and strong emotional reactivity might still occur, but tends to cause depression more so than strong feelings of happiness, joy and elation and impulsivity: unipolar versus bipolar disorder lite.

I would say BPD is more likely than BP, but BPD and BP are more likely than BPD and depression only. Schizophrenia, another possibility (but relatively unlikely) is very unlikely, I think (or you must be leaving stuff out).

Good luck at the doctor's. I would wait till the 1st of April. If it is BP, get used to waiting a lot longer, probably. Average time to get the proper treatment is about 10 years. Take your time to really analyse your problems, keeping an open mind, but hopefully this helps a bit.

Edit:
NHS and all, I'd say it's rather 30 years. Just kidding...

But do come prepared: history of problems, any energy and activity changes throughout your life: periods of sleepless nights or "obsessive" goal-directed activity, not doing as one is told leading to serious problems or missed chances, regretting it later during periods of depression. Feeling guilty for being different and blowing things, but not always. Feelings of being out of control.

Really losing control (so not just buying stuff, but buying stuff despite you realising (maybe told numerous times) it is really gonna cause problems (but you will earn so much money later that it's all fine and carefully planned, you might think)) distinguishes between a problematic, borderline, personality and BP. Nothing can go wrong! It's all under control! Try and stop me, I dare you! (fond memories... Really. But I am always a bit crazy. Do find a way to keep it under control, but never feel guilty for it: never feel guilty for who you are).

Okay, sorry if I've misunderstood this, I'm really tired and it is a long block of text lol.
Are you saying that it might be possible that I have BP with BPD symptoms as well? My therapist has already claimed that I have OCD symptoms - the impulsive thinking is due to the OCD symptoms apparently. So is it possible I have Bipolar with BPD symptoms (the relationship issue).

Or are you saying something else?

And I've got a list of my symptoms and pages upon pages of stuff that I usually carry with me to appointments just incase I have to describe anything in-depth. I know online tests are never anything to go by, but it would be useful to print of the questions/answers as a way to show my symptoms in an easier, less long-winded way?

[Melmo]

Originally Posted by Khione

Okay, sorry if I've misunderstood this, I'm really tired and it is a long block of text lol.

Are you saying that it might be possible that I have BP with BPD symptoms as well? My therapist has already claimed that I have OCD symptoms - the impulsive thinking is due to the OCD symptoms apparently. So is it possible I have Bipolar with BPD symptoms (the relationship issue).


Or are you saying something else?


And I've got a list of my symptoms and pages upon pages of stuff that I usually carry with me to appointments just incase I have to describe anything in-depth. I know online tests are never anything to go by, but it would be useful to print of the questions/answers as a way to show my symptoms in an easier, less long-winded way?

I have been told by people on here to bring printed online tests, I think that's a good idea. I tend to forget things and details so I have to write it down.

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[Icare dixit]

Originally Posted by Khione

Okay, sorry if I've misunderstood this, I'm really tired and it is a long block of text lol.
Are you saying that it might be possible that I have BP with BPD symptoms as well? My therapist has already claimed that I have OCD symptoms - the impulsive thinking is due to the OCD symptoms apparently. So is it possible I have Bipolar with BPD symptoms (the relationship issue).

Or are you saying something else?

And I've got a list of my symptoms and pages upon pages of stuff that I usually carry with me to appointments just incase I have to describe anything in-depth. I know online tests are never anything to go by, but it would be useful to print of the questions/answers as a way to show my symptoms in an easier, less long-winded way?

Yes you understood correctly. I tried to be succinct in describing the probabilities I would assign to any of the possible combinations and each separately, given what you described. BPD is very likely, I think. Quite possibly BP as well. Just BPD with unipolar depression I find unlikely, but it could be. Impulsivity and the extent you lose control (could someone stop you, without getting physical: strong persuasion) might be decisive in determining which combination.

Your anxiety may be caused by psychotic symptoms. Would be interesting, because your efforts to relieve yourself of anxiety can quickly become far more fruitful/productive with the right treatment.

It's not the online tests that are the problem. That is valuable information. However, it is not enough to describe only symptoms using an N-point scale.

History, described using things like energy/sleep, activity and self-control, failure, missed chances and the causes of feelings of guilt, is pivotal.

Chances are, if you have had multiple periods of mania of different severity, you'll miss at least half or all of them.

Chronic problems are also relevant: bad memory, distractibility due to associations between thoughts/ideas with varying intensity, but always at least somewhat present.

Let someone else also describe some of these behaviours. Psychiatrists sometimes (wrongly) assume that if you have insight, even if only afterwards, you can't have been psychotic. Psychiatrists are crazy, without insight, ever: ask any non-psychiatric medical professional. It's just that they are between us and some of the pills that can be very useful and sometimes really necessary.

OCD could be, but many anxiety disorders kinda overlap: it doesn't always really matter much which you are diagnosed with.

Edit:
But to further answer your question: it could be just BDP with normal/subsyndromal obsessions that everyone might have, but the reason behind them may be BPD-specific.

[Icare dixit]

Originally Posted by Melmo

I have been told by people on here to bring printed online tests, I think that's a good idea. I tend to forget things and details so I have to write it down.

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Yes, always helpful, but not enough (not even for a diagnosis if you have an at least somewhat specialised/good psychiatrist). See the long post and then the other. Sorry for the information overload. But the advice to the end about a good history is very important. It might even make you love yourself (more). Cuts both ways.

[Melmo]

I never said its enough for a diagnosis. It helps.

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[Icare dixit]

In defence of psychiatrists: they are also useful as rulers to measure yourself against normalcy by. Same goes for pretty much all doctors.

[Icare dixit]

Originally Posted by Melmo

I never said its enough for a diagnosis. It helps.

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Ok, fair enough.

Good luck with finding the right treatment!

[Khione]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

Yes you understood correctly. I tried to be succinct in describing the probabilities I would assign to any of the possible combinations and each separately, given what you described. BPD is very likely, I think. Quite possibly BP as well. Just BPD with unipolar depression I find unlikely, but it could be. Impulsivity and the extent you lose control (could someone stop you, without getting physical: strong persuasion) might be decisive in determining which combination.

Your anxiety may be caused by psychotic symptoms. Would be interesting, because your efforts to relieve yourself of anxiety can quickly become far more fruitful/productive with the right treatment.

It's not the online tests that are the problem. That is valuable information. However, it is not enough to describe only symptoms using an N-point scale.

History, described using things like energy/sleep, activity and self-control, failure, missed chances and the causes of feelings of guilt, is pivotal.

Chances are, if you have had multiple periods of mania of different severity, you'll miss at least half or all of them.

Chronic problems are also relevant: bad memory, distractibility due to associations between thoughts/ideas with varying intensity, but always at least somewhat present.

Let someone else also describe some of these behaviours. Psychiatrists sometimes (wrongly) assume that if you have insight, even if only afterwards, you can't have been psychotic. Psychiatrists are crazy, without insight, ever: ask any non-psychiatric medical professional. It's just that they are between us and some of the pills that can be very useful and sometimes really necessary.

OCD could be, but many anxiety disorders kinda overlap: it doesn't always really matter much which you are diagnosed with.

Edit:
But to further answer your question: it could be just BDP with normal/subsyndromal obsessions that everyone might have, but the reason behind them may be BPD-specific.

My boyfriend would be willing to speak to the psychiatrist, my mum would also say something. Can bipolar or BPD show in childhood? My mum has always believed me to have mental health issues to my behaviour from a very young age. We've grown distant in the last few years so she doesn't know much now, but would the psychiatrist be interested in the early childhood/growing up history from my mum's point of view as well as my boyfriend's (and my own) descriptions of recent history? I'm guessing it'd be helpful.

My impulsivity, I am able to control the thoughts to an extent. But I believe that if I suddenly decided to act on them - I have no way of knowing right now, sat at my laptop, whether I'd be able to control them myself - I know for a fact that physical restraint would be the only thing that could stop me. I have a feeling that if I acted on an impulsive thought (a dangerous one), my emotions would be so unstable and my anger would come out massively if anyone tried to stop me doing said thing. So I fear I'd end up hurting someone as well as myself. I tend to avoid situations where impulsive thoughts come up - I don't make myself any home-cooked food that involves chopping or cutting things up.. I don't leave the house without someone with me because numerous times I've almost jumped into the middle of the road because I thought it'd be a good idea (I wanted to see if there was an afterlife???) I don't even know. It scares me. I don't even have a drivers license yet because of the impulsive thoughts I have.

As for the other things you listed, memory is horrendous. I don't sleep at all when I'm in my happy period, I can survive on less than 4 hours sleep and feel perfectly fine. Other times, like last year, I slept at 9pm woke at 6am, went back to sleep at 7am, woke again at 1pm and then slept again at 5pm until 7pm and so on. I was getting about 17 hours of sleep every day and still feeling horrifically tired when I was awake. Eating is on the same scale - eat nothing and think I can lose a stone in two days just from not eating because I want to buy a new dress for a party that doesn't exist, to eating everything whenever I'm awake.

It's stressful. I am currently in a more stable period, I'm verging on depressed and I feel like I'm going downhill again and I have a feeling this time is going to be pretty bad, hence why I'm posting this and trying to get as much help from professionals as possible.

[Icare dixit]

Khione, too tired to answer now, but I will.

It is awfully quiet in the mornings because of the strange hours most of the others observe, so a good time to continue then.

[Khione]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

Khione, too tired to answer now, but I will.

It is awfully quiet in the mornings because of the strange hours most of the others observe, so a good time to continue then.

Okay, sure. :3

[Icare dixit]

Just know that I am not a professional in the clinical sense. As far as I know, none of us are. I am a first and foremost a linguist that branched out to other fields to study psychotic disorders. I know the essentials of quite a considerable part of the scientific literature on psychotic disorders, including BP. Some clinicians have lots of experience with the likes of us: those with psychotic disorders, some mainly BP. It's always good to have someone with antennae like that.

That said, we also have a lot of (combined) experience here. Many of our problematic behaviour is essentially the same, but more so than we might care to admit, many particulars one might display have been previously seen in other individuals too.

From what I gather from your post about impulsivity coupled with lots of energy and risky behaviour, I'd say BP is very likely. Probably you have had some mania or hypomania. Functional impairment (severity) can tell you which.

Prodromes, so not actual, severe symptoms yet, are common in childhood. Developing BPD (or the first signs of any consistent personality) generally happens/starts just a few years before puberty into adolescence, most probably. The personality develops as a mechanism to deal with any problems. Memory problems are a strong indicator of psychotic prodromes. BPD is not an uncommon way to deal with it (many/some here have it). I had/have (much of) it. Still, personalities vary greatly of course. A personality disorder category/label might just points to somewhat dysfunctional characteristics of your personality.

A good psychiatrist would be very much interested in accounts (by you, your boyfriend and your mum) of your childhood and later years. If not for firmly establishing that you have BP (as far as childhood is concerned, it can't tell you everything), at least to establish what it is not (for example, an autism spectrum disorder, which is more severe in childhood than in later life, generally, and which is also related to outbursts of anger).

If I forgot to address anything else you wrote, please tell me. Good luck in preparing for your appointment. Read posts here and in other forums to see whether they resonate with you (of course you've done much/some of that already).

[Icare dixit]

In the end, all that really matters is whether you can start to understand/analyse yourself better, helping you to cope, and whether the meds commonly prescribed for BP (a mood stabiliser and/or antipsychotic) do help you with that. For the latter, if so, you can then always decide whether you want to keep taking medications or not.

Lifelong use of medications is rarely necessary, might still be preferred, but is always a choice you make for yourself, not something others can decide for you.

[Khione]

Thanks a lot for your replies, very informative and helpful. I texted my therapist yesterday asking if she could see me any sooner and turns out she has a cancellation today at 1pm, in 2 hours. So I'll be seeing her then and she'll make a referral for me to see my psychiatrist. Fingers crossed everything goes well. :3 Thanks again!