[franz kafka]

Not all of them. But some of them, the religious/spiritual ones. I know now they were technically delusions, but I can't help believing in them to this day. Namely, the interactions I've had with spirits and angels... I think those really happened. It's a taboo topic in therapy because I refuse to question my experiences.

Anyone keep on believing their "delusions" (with or without scare quotes) long after their acute period has faded?

[Moose72]

Count me in! I still believe in the angels I saw a few months ago.

[mossanimal]

I still believe I'm the best potter there ever was even though I'm not a potter. ;-)

I was actively delusional about my friend conspiring with several groups of people to drive me crazy for 3 years. I don't think I was in a mood episode the entire time. Now I can clearly see I was delusional the whole time but it lasted so long!

I have belief systems which the doctors call delusions and they are always present for the most part and I don't see them as delusions or agree with the doctors as they are my spiritual beliefs. I'm mostly stable now I think....depressed a bit but nothing too bad and I'm sure all my spiritual stuff has been the creator talking to me and guiding me. I just have too much going on in my life that can't be coincidence....my friend and family agrees. Someone is communicating with me and they use code or covert methods. I need direct and overt instructions they they need to work on their delivery system.

[Shazerac]

There are millions of people who believe that wine turns into blood of Christ and they're not considered delusional. So I don't see why having some firm alternative spiritual belief system automatically equals delusion.

[bioChE]

Not all spiritual beliefs or experiences are considered delusions.

[franz kafka]

I didn't mean to suggest spirituality has to be delusional. I mean that I had experiences my doctors considered psychotic - such as being visited by the angel Jibrail - which I continue to believe.

[CloserToTheMid]

I have this. I'm a very spiritual person. It's totally natural to me. And although I've had delusions, I just do not accept that all mystical and psychic experiences are delusional. When I began my treatment, I chalked it all up to delusion and maybe even psychosis. But then something happened recently. I'm totally compliant and relatively level...at least much more so than before treatment. I used to see faces before, soon after lying down to got to sleep and closing my eyes. Other people have described the same thing. But I thought it was bogus when I got well. I stopped all of my spiritual practices after my breakdown because I was afraid of going there again. Well a couple of months again, I began performing one of my spiritual practices....kriya yoga. I started seeing the faces again immediately. Freaky. I don't know what they are. Spirits. Past lives. Or what, I don't know. Whatever they are they are harmless. And there's just no way they are delusions or hallucinations. I'm on anti-psychotics. It was a directly consequence of the meditation. It opens something up. I believe they are some kind of psychic experience, and I'm not convinced that is good for me. So I stopped doing it. It went away.

Since I've been well, I've also had conversations with God and Jesus. I believe in them, oh, maybe 90%. Does that make me crazy? Those are mystical experiences, and those have been very helpful to me. So I still pray and once in awhile I listen.

There are a lot of people who believe in OBE, Astral Projection, Angels, spirits, Witchcraft, prayer, healing, etc. That does not make them delusional. But stuff like that has been a problem for me so I don't mess with it anymore (except for prayer and healing). That's really the only thing that is important, that it caused a problem and that I can stop it....or that it has been a benefit to me so I continue.

[Nammu]

I've been told my big pharma conspiracy thready is a delusion...but if you read about corporate greed it's reality. They really do want to sell bad drugs and add side effects so they can sell more. An oligarchy...that's not a delusion either.

Originally Posted by Nammu

I've been told my big pharma conspiracy thready is a delusion...but if you read about corporate greed it's reality. They really do want to sell bad drugs and add side effects so they can sell more. An oligarchy...that's not a delusion either.

When I brought this up to the people in the ER they told me it was delusional and spent some time trying to talk some reason into me. Big Pharma is up to something. The side effects seems hell bent on making us docile, overweight and cloudy thinking. I have no choice but to take the drugs but I really do believe better options without side effects or fewer, could easily be made. Some with immediate improvement too instead of taking upwards of 6 weeks to even know if it will make a difference.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Nammu

An oligarchy...that's not a delusion either.

Agreed, and deluded people will call it that to feel secure in their delusion.

I once had a series of what I call "presence of thought" experiences over the course of a week, and I know those did not originate in my own mind. Their physical sensation began like when someone pretends to break an egg at the top of your head, and then the "presence of thought" simply flowed down through my brain...three times on the first night, then just once on each following night. I do suspect my own mind interfered and at least partially-corrupted the last one, but I almost never mention any of them since I cannot prove anything about them.

[bioChE]

Originally Posted by ElsaMars

When I brought this up to the people in the ER they told me it was delusional and spent some time trying to talk some reason into me. Big Pharma is up to something. The side effects seems hell bent on making us docile, overweight and cloudy thinking. I have no choice but to take the drugs but I really do believe better options without side effects or fewer, could easily be made. Some with immediate improvement too instead of taking upwards of 6 weeks to even know if it will make a difference.

If you seriously think it would be easy to make an effective antipsychotic or other medication with fewer or no side effects, then found a company and go for it! If you have a better idea and the right team, getting investors is pretty straightforward.

I can guarantee that "big pharma" is not up to something nefarious. If there were a single company or organization in charge of discovering and selling medications, that theory might hold some water.

The reality is there are hundreds of companies and tens of thousands of researchers out there looking for that holy grail of an effective medication with zero side effects. In a free market economy where the upside is an enormous amount of sales revenue, of course everyone is searching for the next big thing.

If you look at the advances in psychoactive medications over the last 50-60 years, the theory of "trying to make you sicker" is totally debunked. Back in the 50's, all they had for AP was Thorazine and Haldol. The nasty side effects of those are well known; the "Thorazine shuffle" and Haldol's EPS are very well documented. Today's doses of Haldol are baby doses compared to what used to be used, and the EPS issue is largely resolved by small doses and Cogentin if need be.

Today we have the latest APs; Latuda and Vrylar (sp?) being two of them. These two atypicals have exponentially fewer and less severe side effects than the old ones. Even Seroquel and Zyprexa are getting old in this space; and they have their own issues. Then consider mood stabilizers like Lamictal compared to Lithium and Depakote.

The pharmaceutical industry is far from perfect, but don't demonize it because you've failed to find the perfect treatment. I've been in the industry for 20 years, and I guarantee you that every day hundreds of thousands of people like me are working to make patients' lives better.

Originally Posted by bioChE

If you seriously think it would be easy to make an effective antipsychotic or other medication with fewer or no side effects, then found a company and go for it! If you have a better idea and the right team, getting investors is pretty straightforward.

I can guarantee that "big pharma" is not up to something nefarious. If there were a single company or organization in charge of discovering and selling medications, that theory might hold some water.

The reality is there are hundreds of companies and tens of thousands of researchers out there looking for that holy grail of an effective medication with zero side effects. In a free market economy where the upside is an enormous amount of sales revenue, of course everyone is searching for the next big thing.

If you look at the advances in psychoactive medications over the last 50-60 years, the theory of "trying to make you sicker" is totally debunked. Back in the 50's, all they had for AP was Thorazine and Haldol. The nasty side effects of those are well known; the "Thorazine shuffle" and Haldol's EPS are very well documented. Today's doses of Haldol are baby doses compared to what used to be used, and the EPS issue is largely resolved by small doses and Cogentin if need be.

Today we have the latest APs; Latuda and Vrylar (sp?) being two of them. These two atypicals have exponentially fewer and less severe side effects than the old ones. Even Seroquel and Zyprexa are getting old in this space; and they have their own issues. Then consider mood stabilizers like Lamictal compared to Lithium and Depakote.

The pharmaceutical industry is far from perfect, but don't demonize it because you've failed to find the perfect treatment. I've been in the industry for 20 years, and I guarantee you that every day hundreds of thousands of people like me are working to make patients' lives better.

From your point of view I can see why you believe what you do. I believe it's much more complicated than all that and it would require going way off topic and expressing some opinions which I know will not be popular so I'm just not biting the hook today. I realize you work in this industry and have a certain view based on your experience and expertise. My experience is more anecdotal and for some conspiracy theory but I have good reasons to believe what I believe. Having money can get you greater care and access to different medications than if you are poor.

Newer AP's might have less side effects than current ones but the profile of potential side effects on all drugs is still atrocious. But don't fret because they have a med for that side effect and one for the side effects of the one you're taking for side effects. Some people are lucky and are so improved as to be nearly cured by these medications.....but some of us are plagued by horrifying and potentially deadly side effects. I know this won't be popular but cannabis helps so many people and while it might cause side effects for some, it doesn't cause fatalities....and yet all the "studies" ran say it's not effective because they were conducted with great bias and sinister motivation. Pain medication is prescribed along with added Tylenol. Supposedly the Tylenol makes the med work better. My friend said it's done to cut down potential abuse. The Tylenol is not needed and can be taken separately for those who do need it. The Tylenol has more side effects than the opiod.

People with money rule the world and big pharma holds a lot of coins.

[bioChE]

Sorry for hijacking your thread, Franz!

[CloserToTheMid]

DSM IV glossary

Delusion. A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everyone else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person's culture or subculture (e.g., it is not an article of religious faith). When a false belief involves a value judgment, it is regarded as a delusion only when the judgment is so extreme as to defy credibility.

[franz kafka]

Originally Posted by bioChE

Sorry for hijacking your thread, Franz!

It's all good!

Personally, I'm thinking "the banality of evil" here. Great book about big pharma that isn't a total conspiracy theory is Joseph Dumit's "Drugs For Life."