Bipolar Depression and Electroconvulsive Therapy?

Going in for a consult with an MD sounds like a good idea. I would also wonder if there was an effect on migraine, one way or the other. My migraines mostly went away when I went through menopause but then I developed those stabbing headaches, only under florescent lighting or intense summer sunlight.

I imagine there are other people who might have many similar questions one day about electroconvulsive therapy.

I'll tell you what I would do myself, WC. If meds stop working for me I will request ECT.

The consult is a great idea.

Keep us posted

I am bumping this up for a friend here with ECT questions.
Thanks again for your thread comments!

WC

I'm not doing much on the public boards, but I'm willing to answer PM's.

Oh, thank you!
You are always so kind!

WC

I'm like Laurie. I would try ECT if meds stopped working for me. I've actually considered that a couple of times when my APs just weren't working.

If you try it once and you don't like it, at least you gave it an honest shot and you can say you tried it.

But fwiw, I learned something valuable from a co-worker: always try things twice in case the first time was a fluke.

I'm bumping this thread to ask for some advice. I hope you can help.

My wife finished 9 courses of ECT this week. We were told that for the majority of patients, although they may never regain memories from events that occurred around the treatments, her longer-term memories should almost all come back. But my wife is experiencing side effects we weren’t informed about. She’s profoundly afraid and fearful most of the time because she doesn’t feel like the life she’s living is hers. She says she has the “heebie jeebies” all the time wherever she goes and whoever she’s with, including her family. She’s even uncertain about me, her husband of 26 years, but even so she wants me to be in the same room as her at all times.

Our psychiatrist says this is related to her temporary memory loss but I can’t find much information about this behaviour online, and the thought of this personality disruption being permanent is terrifying. In your experience, has anyone experienced this post-ECT behaviour before and is it typical? What can I do to make this better for her? What are the latest stats about permanent post-ECT memory loss and how long recovery might take? What are the chances that she’ll never regain her long-term memories over time and that the fear she’s feeling will never fade?

That sounds really scary I don’t know much about ECT and have never tried it. Have you talked to your wife’s doctor about this?

From what little I’ve read most people regain long term memory. I’ve never heard of it being permanent.

I am sorry you both are going through this.
I hope some members experienced with ECT see your post and comment.


WC

Can the psychiatrist give her something? I understand ECT would cause memory problems, but maybe this is making her confused and setting off anxiety and depersonalization.

I don’t have experience with ECT. I am sorry, I see you have been through a lot.

Imagine losing the context for your life, personal history and relationships. It makes functioning difficult in many ways.

I’ve had many ECT treatments. The long term memory loss makes it tough to navigate life. I’m on lunch at work right now, but will write more when I get home.

Right, so to explain the context and navigation difficulties.

I believe your wife's heebie-jeebies experience ultimately comes from the memory loss. Too many holes in the memory and I have no familiar objects from which I can draw comfort and peace. I have nothing from which I can elicit reassurance. I am a stranger in my own home and neighborhood. Knowing this makes me feel worse.

What's more, familiar faces are often only that, occasionally not even that. In general, names elude me though I know I have a history with the person in question, sometimes an important and intimate history. Being socially adrift in this way adds to the anxiety because I know that not recognising friends, or failing the name test frustrates my wife. The tension is more than just names, though. That inability to recall moments in a relationship makes for awkward situations in the current relationship, but also makes for my own sense of guilt and discomfort. I still carry a black hole in my soul because at one point in 2015 I didn't recognise my wife of 24 years.

Another anxiety-causing side effect of ECT is poor word retrieval. This means I struggle to adequately express how I'm feeling, what I anticipate, fear, or hope for. Imagine trying to share with a loved one what you hope is the result of the treatment and though you know you once had a good vocabulary, you're now at a loss.

These things compound each other for a sum that is worse than the total of the individual parts. However, I want to reassure you that these things did diminish with time.

Hi Vertigo. What you describe is absolutely horrifying. Yes, I did all the reading and research ahead of time which says that what you're experiencing is supposed to be rare, but nevertheless, hearing your personal story is very upsetting. My wife and I have struggled for so long, it's hard to even comprehend that ECT might've simply added a new horrible layer. How long ago did you have your ECT treatments?

I started ECT in March of 2015 with the requisite intensive series. Now I undergo maintenance treatment every five weeks, tomorrow being my next.

I have noticed, though, that as the treatments get farther apart things get better with regard to memory and cognition. I mention this because I believe that your wife, with time, will improve as I have.

Every 5 weeks? Wow. Okay, that might be part of the reason your symptoms have endured. My wife's psychiatrist is hoping that she won't need any maintenance ECT treatments.

Based on a description of my wife's symptoms, her psychiatrist arranged for an out-of-business-hours appointment in two weeks to assess her. Hopefully in a few weeks the fear will be less, and also that we'll get some direction.

Yes, I hope your wife's symptoms diminish rapidly. Keep us updated. You'll be in my thoughts.

I'm back with an update.

It's been a very rough couple of months. As I mentioned, my wife developed debilitating post-ECT symptoms in late April after her ECT treatments finished (intense, overwhelming fear; complete disconnect from family and every aspect of her life; sensory hallucinations including a persistent smell/taste of rotten meat). I couldn't find anything that matched these symptoms online. About 2-3 weeks post-ECT though, those symptoms simply vanished one morning as if flipping a switch. One day she was terrified and unable to really function, and the next morning it was just gone and she could function again.

This was just before we had an appointment with our psychiatrist, and she put a name to it: postictal delirium. With a diagnosis I could Google, then I was able to find some information, mostly in medical research papers. It's extremely rare, but it's supposed to be short-term, only for a few weeks post-ECT, and then go away.

Unfortunately it came back a few weeks ago in a very disturbing way. My wife developed an intense fury at everything. The slightest thing would cause an intense, uncontrollable angry reaction. She even acknowledged when pressed that the anger was overwhelming everything in her life. She wouldn't touch me, and acted like she completely lost all of her love for me, barely interacted with her kids, threatened to walk out the door. And then, two days ago, halfway through the morning, it just... vanished.

We are completely baffled and very worried that this is going to happen again. My wife's psychiatrist for 18 years is very old school - no computers, all handwritten notes, poor memory - and she didn't really want to hear that we were still having problems, kept saying to my wife "Well, you seem better" and sent us on our way. We're trying to get in to see a new psychiatrist but the wait time is about a year.

Has anyone heard of anything like this happening to someone more than three months post-ECT? And are there any places I can go online to get advice from trained mental health professionals that could shed some light on what the hell is happening and what we should do?

I am so sorry your wife and you are going through this. That sounds like a scary reaction. The one thing I wanted to mention about the recent episode is that I get very intense anger related to hypomania/mixed episodes. I would ask if her psychiatrist thought it was related to the ECT or not, but it sounds like you didn't get very good answers for them. That is really frustrating I am sure. I can't say I know much about if this is ever seen with post-ECT. Can you get on the cancellation list for a new psychiatrist? A year is a crazy amount of time to wait, but if she gets really bad you could go to the ER.

Hi WC,

I don't know how ECT works out for migraine from any personal experiences, as I've never tried ECT, but have read that ECT can cause post treatment migraines all by itself.

The usual treatments for that side effect are things like valproic acid. Did you end up going for a consult?