[caringmum]

Hi, my eldest son is still very manic and delusional. He was hospitalized for two weeks, let out for two weeks and is now back in hospital. He took all of his medications from hospital until the night before his return to hospital, and he has been consistently manic and delusional for a month. He is on 1500 mg depakote, 2 mg of risperidone, and 100 mg trazadone for sleep. He is 20 and is refusing to sign papers for his parents to talk to the staff or to visit because of his delusions. The hospital have put him back on the lowered dosage of medication he was on when he left because they haven't spoken to us. He is unable to make informed choices at this moment in time and they are filing an involuntary court order. We pay his bills, he is dependent on us, he cannot drive and he lives with us but as next of kin we have no rights. This is very sad and frightening for us, how long will these delusions last? How can we help him? He had three shots of haldol/ativan the first time, and one or two shots this time. Will he get better? I am worried and feel helpless.

[SorryShaped]

Bipolar is cyclical. It's got better and worse, and will ebb and flow. That's also an age where, for some, growing up becomes the hardest thing you want most to do but feel least equipped until you do in fact grow up. Maybe that's how I felt about it, and nobody else. Dunno.
If he doesn't want your input on meds or anything then that's unfortunately his choice. I hope that everyone can see their ways to calmer days.

[caringmum]

Originally Posted by SorryShaped

Bipolar is cyclical. It's got better and worse, and will ebb and flow. That's also an age where, for some, growing up becomes the hardest thing you want most to do but feel least equipped until you do in fact grow up. Maybe that's how I felt about it, and nobody else. Dunno.
If he doesn't want your input on meds or anything then that's unfortunately his choice. I hope that everyone can see their ways to calmer days.

It isn't opinion we are offering the hospital, it is telling the hospital what dose he was taking, they have lowered it without realizing when even the higher dose wasn't working and we can't tell them that. My son has no idea what he was taking. He was committed by the court, to hospital for two weeks earlier in March because he is so manic and psychotic. He has no idea what he is doing, but no one can do anything to help much because the courts have been out of session since Thursday. I understand him having rights when he is mentally competent, but he is not. If he comes out of hospital and leaves us in this current state he will end up dead, we have no doubt about it.

If you really want rights, you can file for an emergency guardianship in order to get information and direct his care/make decisions on treatments.

You can also file for guardianship of assets, if he has any. This could be called a conservatorship or an administration or something else—it varies by state. This allows you to do anything he would do with his money, assets, apply for disability/state benefits, etc.

The above is expensive unless the court where you are offers help with making the filings.

Regarding his state—it hasn’t been very long, and there are a lot of drugs yet to try.

[downandlonely]

I'm sorry about this situation, and I hope your son can find meds that will work for him.

I know this sounds extreme, but I used to see it when I worked for the probate court in a different state. The judges there were the same for probate, guardianship, and mental health courts.

Once in a while a case would be for a bipolar patient, but not often. More common were cases for dementia and head injuries. Or children with parents unable to care for them.

You could also see if a paralegal service will make filings. I don’t know if they do that where you are, but I’ve heard of it. They can’t give you legal advice, but they can gather and file the petition and notice.

[caringmum]

Originally Posted by downandlonely

I'm sorry about this situation, and I hope your son can find meds that will work for him.

Thank you, it wouldn't be so hard if his younger brother hadn't have been hospitalized with mania and psychosis three times from October to November, he has been away since then and we are bringing him home in less than two weeks, but my older son is really way, way worse.

[Victoria'smom]

Rights vs. Needs are really hard to address when sick. He will eventually come down and when he does set up a living will and Psychiatric Advance Directive. That way theirs no issues later on. Even though he's 20 and still dependent on you he may not want you involved. You can always ask him what's going on but most likely he wont know. Sorry your dealing with this hope it gets better soon.

When your son(s) have capacity, you can have them sign power of attorney to give you authorization to deal with the hospital. This could be called a medical power of attorney...you can check to see what is valid. The hospital’s social worker will probably tell you for free.

Then there is a different type of power of attorney for assets.

If you have these in place, you won’t be in a position of being shut out by the hospital next time.

[Wild Coyote]

I am also sorry you are all in this position.

A psychiatrist has repeatedly told me that although they cannot talk, they can listen. In a situation similar to yours, I was told to get to the doctor's voicemail and talk away, telling the doctor what I'd felt he'd needed to know.

If you don't know the name of your son's doctor, call the nursing station and tell them the information you've wanted to share.

Other than doing something like this for the immediate situation, I am afraid you'll have to go through the courts. Lots of helpful advice in above posts.

My heart goes out to you.


WC

[Wonderfalls]

I'm so sorry. When they first changed the laws to give mentally ill patients more rights, they went too far the other way, I think, and many other parents do too. There are many books now and articles about parents helpless to aid their adult children. Not much solace right now I'm afraid. It would be great if you could get legal help and, as someone said, there are plenty more medicines out there. Though if you've been through this already you're probably experts on that. It's frustrating that the doctors think they know everything, when they've actually had less day-to-day long term experience with your sons personally. You have all my sympathy and I wish you the best.

[caringmum]

Originally Posted by Miguel'smom

Rights vs. Needs are really hard to address when sick. He will eventually come down and when he does set up a living will and Psychiatric Advance Directive. That way theirs no issues later on. Even though he's 20 and still dependent on you he may not want you involved. You can always ask him what's going on but most likely he wont know. Sorry your dealing with this hope it gets better soon.

He does want us involved - he signed papers twice this month, just not this time, but at the moment he is thinking we are stopping him from flying to New York to marry an internet celebrity who has no idea of his existence, she communicates through flashing lights on the hard drive apparently. He says he will only sign the papers if we call the FBI and send them to the hospital - he doesn't know what he is doing. BTW, he turned 20 on Thursday, the day we rehospitalized him.

[pirilin]

I hope you are stable by now. Cheers.

[yellow_fleurs]

I have also heard that they can listen, just not give out information for HIPAA reasons, so that might be your best bet to call and tell them your concerns. This is a tough situation. Hope your son gets the care he needs and feels better soon.

[Blueberrybook]

I'm sorry about the situation. It's tough.

I was hospitalized in my 20s and getting psych care through the university. All my bills were paid by my parents and a grandmother, but I didn't want them any more involved in my treatment than they had to be. The main reason they were involved other than the bills was the fact that I had a bad eating disorder that was obvious upon glance. But I never wanted to tell them a thing about my treatment, the meds I was taking, anything. It was all private stuff I didn't want them involved with.

It sounds to me though that the hospital might need to try some different medications. I don't understand why they are not.

I still don't like to talk a lot of this stuff over, even with my husband. Sometimes, I'll mention a med change or he will show concern that I am getting manic, but it is not something we talk about. He doesn't have mental health issues. It's really hard to understand when you have not walked in those shoes.

Your son is lucky to have such concerned parents. It is a difficult age too, kids just getting some freedom & rights they didn't have before.

[caringmum]

Originally Posted by pirilin

I hope you are stable by now. Cheers.

He was psychotic form end of February to the beginning of June and then the psychosis ended, phew. He is much better than he was but still not great, but is taking lithium. He stopped his latuda cold turkey against medical advise two weeks ago so I am hoping the psychosis won't return!