Do you feel that you've lost IQ points from experiencing bipolar episodes? If you do feel like you've lost IQ points, do you think that maybe medication is partly to blame though?

Hi bluebicyle. I feel more mentally able, in some ways, now than before. In other ways, less. I think being in my late 40s plays a part in the latter and former. Being very grounded/stable certainly helps my thinking in various ways. Did/does hypomania supercharge some of my mental abilities? Sure, but at the expense of other things.

I believe that severe episodes did affect me, cognitively, for a while. However, having them finally controlled allowed my brain to heal, in a sense. It took a while, but it happened.

Medications never permanently affected me, mentally. Temporarily? Sure. In my case, I think oversedation was an issue. I don't feel oversedated now, though. I got past that side effect - even from 600 mg Seroquel XR.

Medications like Lithium and Lamictal, at higher doses, did cloud my thinking a bit. I no longer take Lithium, and though I still take Lamictal, I take a very small dose now. My other bipolar medications don't affect me, cognitively.

It's important to have mental stimulation in life. One must exercise their brain. Just like physical abilities decrease from being stationary too long, so do mental abilities. I've experienced a lot of mental stimulation in recent years, though different types than in my youth. I actually feel more creative now, in many ways, than in my youth. I have forgotten most of the calculus I learned at 18, but improved upon so many other things.

I don't have the ability to handle as many stressors as I could in the past. That is one way my illness has disabled me. I don't think medication has anything to do with that, nor can medication help that. Therapy can help. Or, I must rework my goals.

[HALLIEBETH87]

Yes I do! I feel dumb. My psychologist assured me I’m not.

In short, yes. I feel “slowed down”, that is I can’t think as quickly and I can’t remember well at all. I think medicine is partly to blame. I don’t think age is much of a factor here for me (I’m just pushing 30), but perhaps it’s the start of a decline. To be honest, I made a deal with the devil so to speak and did a big trade off – I switched off some meds that were causing weight gain for some medicines that do not but do seem to slow down my cognitive ability. It may all be in my head though. I look at past writings (written when not manic nor depressed) and I think to myself – “I couldn’t produce something like that again”. Works I had written only months prior. However, is it worth not having swings and staying months in debilitating conditions? Absolutely.

So what I’m saying is I think I’ve lost a lot of momentum in my abilities but they aren’t completely gone, so I call it a win-win. I’m not strong enough to fight to “train my brain” over again so I just accept it for what it is. Whether it is in my head or holds validity in practice, it doesn’t matter – I feel affected by something, and it’s unsettling.

I do notice my memory is not as good as it once was. Not sure if it the bipolar eps. Likely it is as this recent severe episode [of euphoria in September ending in an acute fear reaction on September 27th (the day of the climate strike) and the long hard recovery] has left me feeling quite a bit dumber. I'm dumber but happier and less numb and more empathy and compassion and laughter and joy and being happy not saying much and remembering my parents fondly [and letting go of my hostility and contempt for them] and remembering my brothers and sisters with affection [just general affection for all humans -- completely new for me] and feeling a lot like i did as a child -- the last time i was truly happy.

I even let my tinkly "droplets" phone alarm [that i set to wake up to] play for the full 15 minutes because it reminds me of a tinkly baby's mobile's tune and is so evocative and pleasant and comforting and delightful! I looked for baby mobiles at Walmart yesterday to replace my hanging faux plants with but they didn't have any. My inner child feels very happy these day and what did all those brain cells get me anyways but into trouble and mazes i would get trapped in.

The 12-Step folks call it "Analysis Paralysis" and i agree!

Be well my friend!

[stahrgeyzer]

This thread scares me! My psychologist told me medication has improved to such great lengths to what it used to be long ago but I've heard such bad things about bipolar and anxiety meds. I don't want to become a zombie.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Yes when I recently got my IQ tested I had lost twenty points in working memory and thirty in processing speed. Given my genotype at GRM3 has been shown to lose working memory in response to APs I do think it’s the medicine, but my psychosis was severe enough I can’t risk another. My doc recommended fish oil and that’s helping a lot with the working memory.

[stahrgeyzer]

"fish oil" is that the omega-3 pills?

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by BirdDancer

Hi bluebicyle. I feel more mentally able, in some ways, now than before. In other ways, less. I think being in my late 40s plays a part in the latter and former. Being very grounded/stable certainly helps my thinking in various ways. Did/does hypomania supercharge some of my mental abilities? Sure, but at the expense of other things.

I believe that severe episodes did affect me, cognitively, for a while. However, having them finally controlled allowed my brain to heal, in a sense. It took a while, but it happened.

Medications never permanently affected me, mentally. Temporarily? Sure. In my case, I think oversedation was an issue. I don't feel oversedated now, though. I got past that side effect - even from 600 mg Seroquel XR.

Medications like Lithium and Lamictal, at higher doses, did cloud my thinking a bit. I no longer take Lithium, and though I still take Lamictal, I take a very small dose now. My other bipolar medications don't affect me, cognitively.

It's important to have mental stimulation in life. One must exercise their brain. Just like physical abilities decrease from being stationary too long, so do mental abilities. I've experienced a lot of mental stimulation in recent years, though different types than in my youth. I actually feel more creative now, in many ways, than in my youth. I have forgotten most of the calculus I learned at 18, but improved upon so many other things.

I don't have the ability to handle as many stressors as I could in the past. That is one way my illness has disabled me. I don't think medication has anything to do with that, nor can medication help that. Therapy can help. Or, I must rework my goals.

You come across as very intelligent! I am often in awe!
I agree with you about the importance of mental stimulation.

I have read, from various sources, that we do access our creativity later in adulthood. Many people start painting, baking learning an instrument, etc.

I truly appreciate all you share with us. :love;

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by stahrgeyzer

This thread scares me! My psychologist told me medication has improved to such great lengths to what it used to be long ago but I've heard such bad things about bipolar and anxiety meds. I don't want to become a zombie.

Have you been on meds very long?

This topic can be frightening, for sure.. The good thing about discussing this topic is that we can share experiences, concerns and knowledge with one another, which usually proves helpful.

In some cases, it is thought the episodes may do more damage than meds. It's difficult to know. If you start to feel like a zombie, please do tell your pdoc and discuss a med or a dose change.

I hope to see you around!

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by MarcusAurelius

In short, yes. I feel “slowed down”, that is I can’t think as quickly and I can’t remember well at all. I think medicine is partly to blame. I don’t think age is much of a factor here for me (I’m just pushing 30), but perhaps it’s the start of a decline. To be honest, I made a deal with the devil so to speak and did a big trade off – I switched off some meds that were causing weight gain for some medicines that do not but do seem to slow down my cognitive ability. It may all be in my head though. I look at past writings (written when not manic nor depressed) and I think to myself – “I couldn’t produce something like that again”. Works I had written only months prior. However, is it worth not having swings and staying months in debilitating conditions? Absolutely.

So what I’m saying is I think I’ve lost a lot of momentum in my abilities but they aren’t completely gone, so I call it a win-win. I’m not strong enough to fight to “train my brain” over again so I just accept it for what it is. Whether it is in my head or holds validity in practice, it doesn’t matter – I feel affected by something, and it’s unsettling.

I've had similar experiences. I have written papers, various types of "journal entries," etc., and I find I cannot reproduce them.

I also feel it's a trade-off,most likely.

you are writing very well now. I hope you are feeling as well.

[Wild Coyote]

Thanks for this thread, blue!

It's my understaning that it's natural for us to lose some IQ points as we age, even without meds or mental illness.

That said, I have found my cognitive abilities fluctuate, sometimes greatly. This was true long before taking any meds.

I have read, repeatedly, we'd benefit from:

Fish oil
Stimulation, even solving puzzles, etc.
Exercise - increases circulation.

These are some of the basic, as I understand this.

[stahrgeyzer]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

Have you been on meds very long?

Not yet but this thread will help bring up some questions when I see the psychiatrist asap.

Originally Posted by stahrgeyzer

Not yet but this thread will help bring up some questions when I see the psychiatrist asap.

Do just keep in mind medications affect everyone differently. I know it sounds cliché and side-effects and warnings can be disheartening. Warning you of side effects is important but you can only control so much of an environment for a study -- you can't make everyone's body chemistry equal. I am allergic to some spice they put on chicken at our local Mexican restaurant. I'm the only person I know who has ever had a reaction. Should you be overly concerned it'll happen to you? The idea is to be informed, not to stress (which is hard to do haha)


So, while there are possibilities do not let it freak you out -- most side effects aren't permanent and some even fade with time. Just make sure you give it a fighting chance before throwing it out.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by stahrgeyzer

"fish oil" is that the omega-3 pills?

Yes omega 3 you can get it from algae if you’re vegetarian too.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

Have you been on meds very long?


This topic can be frightening, for sure.. The good thing about discussing this topic is that we can share experiences, concerns and knowledge with one another, which usually proves helpful.


In some cases, it is thought the episodes may do more damage than meds. It's difficult to know. If you start to feel like a zombie, please do tell your pdoc and discuss a med or a dose change.


I hope to see you around!

I have to agree with the fact that episodes can cause damage too like you can drop in reading with each episode of psychosis. So much depends on the individual though and we are trapped between a rock and a hard place.

[Wild Coyote]

Possibly a lot of how we are affected might be genetics?

I am very impressed by the IQs and overall cognitive functioning of some people I know who have been exposed to meds (sometimes heavily) for many years.
In some cases, I know the individual has been on a lot of meds for many years AND has had a number of severe episodes; yet, they continue to demonstrate high IQs and above average cognitive abilities.

The cause of any decline is likely multifactorial in nature.
Just thinking out loud ~

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

Possibly a lot of how we are affected might be genetics?


I am very impressed by the IQs and overall cognitive functioning of some people I know who have been exposed to meds (sometimes heavily) for many years.

In some cases, I know the individual has been on a lot of meds for many years AND has had a number of severe episodes; yet, they continue to demonstrate high IQs and above average cognitive abilities.


The cause of any decline is likely multifactorial in nature.

Just thinking out loud ~

I believe it is genetics....each person has a distinctive bipolar and how they react to meds etc is also modified by genetics. Plus it only targets a small portion of IQ, the rest remains intact.

[Blue_Bird]

I think overall mine has remained about the same but i have many cognitive difficulties now due to episodes and/or meds.

[daladico]

My cognitive issues have worsened... I often feel like I am “simple minded” because I have such a hard time thinking. When I listen to other people I’m often in awe and think “wow, your mind actually thinks that complexly and that quickly??” It often baffles me. I think my cognition has gotten worse as my bipolar symptoms have worsened. It may in part be due to meds too though.

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Yes omega 3 you can get it from algae if you’re vegetarian too.

Thanks so much for the reminder! I had forgotten about sourcing DHA from algae.

I have never taken an IQ test, partly because I'm worried about scoring low, but partly because I'm really not that bothered about my score.

my memory has got worse, for sure, when I was a child I could memorize things that now would require a miracle

but I've been around people who don't know if the lion king has any lions in, so I'm not too worried

I worry about early dimentia, but will cross that bridge if and when I come to it

[FluffyDinosaur]

This is one of my worst fears. I'm a researcher so I need to be able to think straight to do my job. I definitely notice that when depressed I have a much harder time concentrating and thinking through things that normally wouldn't be an issue. I'm really afraid of cognitive decline in between episodes. So far I don't think that's happened yet, at least not too badly. It's just that I'm depressed a lot more than I used to be, but that's a separate issue I suppose.


I've also realized I'm kind of "addicted" to my hypomanias because I feel like I need them for the creative boosts that I rely on to compensate for my depressive episodes. When I'm not hypomanic for a while I get this really desperate longing for it, like I feel like I'm losing a part of my identity if I don't have the hypomania.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

Thanks so much for the reminder! I had forgotten about sourcing DHA from algae.

Yeah it’s actually a slightly better source as it has more DHA than EPA so it’s more focused on brain health. I use the one from Nordic Naturals...