[Psyched]

Hi everyone,
I'm a newbie, nice to meet you all. I've been dx w/ Borderline Personality Disorder & severe depression ( & possibly Bipolar Disorder Type 2). For almost two decades, the books I've read on PD's have concluded that they are a manifestation of learned maladjusted traits & behaviors in one's personality brought on by a dysfunctional environment. But recently, I've been reading a lot about new evidence which has proven that people w/ PD's have defects in the areas of the brain which regulate emotion, impulsiveness, aggression, etc. It's speculated that these brain defects could be caused by trauma & other adverse environmental factors. And some of us have gone through abuse, but others haven't. Many people go through the same levels of abuse & never develop a PD. That kinda proves that our brains are more vulnerable. Are we just BORN this way? Are all of those books I've read wrong? Can we really overcome our PD's by doing the exercises in books like I Hate you, Don't Leave Me,or The Angry Heart, etc., that were written by experts on BPD, & can we really be helped by DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy)? Can we really be cured without taking meds? I'd like to think the answer is yes, especially b/c pills don't work for me or many others I've known. I don't mean to sound pessimistic; I just want to know what the real culprit is, b/c how can we get better if we don't know what needs to be fixed? What are your thoughts???

[Ratanddragon]

I don't think I'm borderline. A lot of the symptoms that Schizoid, Avoidant and Aspergers have in common seem to fit me, though. From the reading I've done in this area, I asked myself "What's the difference in real-world effects between not being born wired for social interaction as in Asperger's and losing the ability through atrophy as in severe Schizoid disorder." I really don't know. I do know that a lot of research lately is pointing to the adult brain being a hell of a lot more plastic than anyone had ever before suspected, and this gives me hope. If this pans out, the question becomes one of finding the right techniques and training the brain, or forcing it to make new connections while losing the old, defective ones.

I wish I had a more definitive answer for you. I'm NOT a Doc, but I have some hope for myself for good reasons and I going to proceed as if these changes are possible....what more can you do? Luck, and be good to you.

[shezbut]

Hello and

Your questions are actually pretty deep. Good questions, but scientists still have lots to do before they fully understand brains & individuality. Some people are vulnerable to heart disease, diabetes, eye disease, the list goes on (and on). Weakness to many conditions are genetic. But, just because a person is weak to a genetic disease does not mean that they are guaranteed to develop that (or those) illness/es. They simply need to keep their eyes peeled, so to speak, for symptoms and live their lives healthily.

If a person has a genetic weakness to developing diabetes, they'll have to watch their diets and general feeling of health closely.

The knowledge of the personality disorders are certainly more vague than the highly studied diseases, like diabetes. However, they have been (and are continuing to be) studied. It is tough to make definite decisions when there are some unknowns. Doctors usually look at cases individually nowadays, because they are beginning to understand how individual human health is.

The brain is much more involved in development and progression of disease/s than previously believed. Like any science, there are people all over the board in their hypotheses as to how the brain is so involved in our physical health.

In my opinion, the individuality of diseases will continue to occur. We aren't all the same. General trends ~majorities~ are there in how or why, and minorities not fitting the trend are there for other reasons.

I feel as though I talked in a big circle here . Hope that it makes sense to you! Best wishes to you

Shez

ETA: I do have temporal lobe epilepsy, from a high fever as a baby. Also fit general description of emotional reasons for development of BPD. Did have surgery 3/06 on my left temporal lobe, to remove epileptic foci, which made my BPD symptoms much stronger.

[Michah]

Hi Psyched,

Yes, like Shez said, big questions but good......it is in the asking and seeking that we heal eventually....

I was told 16 years ago when dx, that I was to have BPD for life. At the time it was a death sentence in my mind.....only becuase I felt SO ill and was in and out of hopsital.....

Since my dx, I have overcome considerably......and this is where our core personalities and strenghts come to the fore......we exist outside our PD's, we exist outside all disorder........our core values (even if we are not aware of them) are what determine out future in terms of how we grow, how we change, what we believe. All people go through his process, whether they have good or bad outcomes.....

So, yes, I believe it is a combination of nature/nurture......how much is each, I have no idea. Some of us are more sensitive than others, and some of us has such different upbringings. It is in the breaking of those past chains of thinking and behaving that we truly overcome.

I was recently dx with Aspergers.......it is in my family. However, it may have been a different outcome for me if I had been treated properly as a chlid. I may not struggle so much with myself now......I may have better self-esteem to deal with all the issues that Aspergers throws up......but I go to therapy and most important of all, I try to love myself anyway.....

Would I take it all back if I could? 16 years ago, a resounding yes......Now, not in a million years......for it is the BPD that participated in what I am today.....that taught me things about myself that I would never have gained without the tremendous struggle of BPD and the great love/hate story between my BPD self and my Michah self......we live quite well together now

Take care babe.......yes it is in the brain, it is in the spirit, it is in our humanity........and the greatest gift is to love it anyway.......

Hugs

Michah

[ECHOES]

Pills may help symptoms but BPD is about perceptions and how we deal with life, so that's not something a pill can fix. It takes work and learning who we are and growing into who we want to be.

Nature vs. nurture? I believe it is primarily nuture and is rooted in attachment difficulties in infancy and young childhood that affect how we view the world. But I also believe that nothing is all one think or another; I think it is both, but mainly nurture.

There are a lot of good books out there about attachment, including "Attachment in Psychotherapy" by David J Smallin.

[Psyched]

(((Everyone who replied)))!!! Thanks for your input & I'm here to support you all, too!

Ratanddragon- You make a great point about it not mattering b/c the brain is so resilient. I have A LOT of avoidant traits, too (& may have that PD as well), which I think has been a cumulative response to too much abuse & then being repeatedly victimized b/c eventually a person identifies themselves as such (a victim), & people treat you the way you teach them to. So, I have become very reclusive in an effort to protect myself, b/c I can't trust my own behavior, but living an isolated existence is worse. That's the difference between Aspergers & Schizoid: the former desperately wants to bond but somehow can't, while the latter have no desire to. You should check out a great movie, a true love story between two people w/ Aspergers called Mozart & the Whale.

Shezbut- From what I've learned, all BPD's exhibit the exact same behaviors, but to more or lesser degrees. IMO, that gives more credence to the genetic factor. I agree w/ you that the brain has influence over physicality, b/c my depression & stress have caused my body to break down & I now have two autoimmune diseases. I'm so sorry that your operation exacerbated your BPD symptoms. I hope I can be of some help to you w/ support & friendship.

(((Michah)))- You have no idea how inspiring your post is to me. Clearly, you're an amazing, strong, positive individual, & I'd love to learn more about the lessons BPD has taught you & how it has formed the person you are today. I'm looking forward to reading your blog. I hope we can support each other thru this!

Echoes- I know that our experiences play a huge role in developing this disorder. I just get so frustrated, as I've been dealing w/ this for 30 years! (I'm 43) Thanks for the bookl suggestion- I'll check it out.

[Psyched]

Shez-
Forgot to add this, & I can't edit my reply b/c the moderators haven't approved it yet...
Isn't is intersting that some meds that are now being used as mood stabilizers, such as Lamictal, are standardly categorized as anti-seizures/epileptics? Ever noticed the correlation w/ your epilepsy & your BPD, that the symptoms of both are in many ways similar?
Best wishes & hugs (my smilies aren't working & i wanted to send you one. why does that happen sometimes?)
~ a technologically uninclined newbie

[shezbut]

Originally Posted by Psyched

Isn't is intersting that some meds that are now being used as mood stabilizers, such as Lamictal, are standardly categorized as anti-seizures/epileptics? Ever noticed the correlation w/ your epilepsy & your BPD, that the symptoms of both are in many ways similar?

Psyched,

Yes, I've also found that to be very interesting! Many of the AED's (anti-epileptic drugs) are used to treat depression, anxiety, and bipolar symptoms. I would assume that the symptoms are similar due to the activity (or inactivity) being in the same areas of the brain.

In my case, part of my left hippocampus (1/3 of it) was removed. This made my amygdala much more active, which is the part of the brain responsible for basic desires - food, sex, emotions. Since my amygdala is now stronger, these basic desires and emotions are much stronger and more diffcult for me to contol. It is a very common side effect for my type of surgery (partial temporal lobectomy).

Thanks for your response ~ I appreciate your best wishes and hugs! Hope to see you around again. Take care!

Shez

[AlteredState01]

Originally Posted by shezbut

Psyched,

Yes, I've also found that to be very interesting! Many of the AED's (anti-epileptic drugs) are used to treat depression, anxiety, and bipolar symptoms. I would assume that the symptoms are similar due to the activity (or inactivity) being in the same areas of the brain.

In my case, part of my left hippocampus (1/3 of it) was removed. This made my amygdala much more active, which is the part of the brain responsible for basic desires - food, sex, emotions. Since my amygdala is now stronger, these basic desires and emotions are much stronger and more diffcult for me to contol. It is a very common side effect for my type of surgery (partial temporal lobectomy).

Thanks for your response ~ I appreciate your best wishes and hugs! Hope to see you around again. Take care!

Shez

Wow! Interesting Stuff Shez! Thank you!

[Psyched]

I just want to apologize for my response to everyone (#6). I've just reread it again today, & I see now what I didn't see then. I totally veered off the subject matter, when I was trying to address each of you & thank you personally. It really scares me that I don't even realize how broken my mind is sometimes. Hope I didn't offend anyone.

[Ratanddragon]

The attempt to respond to my post personally is appreciated...if you feel that you weren't accurate, well.....fifty lashes with a wet nooodle.

[ECHOES]

From what I've learned, all BPD's exhibit the exact same behaviors, but to more or lesser degrees. IMO, that gives more credence to the genetic factor.

I disagree. The fact that these are called "personality" disorders suggests/identifies them as developmental in nature. It can run in families because one who experiences the world with the difficulties of BPD passes on those coping "skills", methods, perceptions, ways of being.

That the behaviors are similar (I disagree with 'exact same') because the same dysfunction of attachment has been experienced, so the same dysfunction of development evolved for survival.

[Shoe]

The way that we can rewire our brains is with our attention basically. Neurons that fire together wire together. The best way to do that is to learn about mindfulness and start to cultivate it. It teaches us the skills to focus our attention and become aware when we are getting lost in the thought stream. 2 good books are A Mindful Way Through Depression and The Mindful Path to Self-Compassion. Best wishes, Shoe