I've always aspired to be normal: The basic - functioning - behavior has held an allure for me.

My past is a sketch of people that I have tried to be. And my mind, more of a dumping ground of unfinished thoughts, than a interconnecting band of ideas. But even with this I still believe I can be normal.

But how does one get membership to this club?

[bpd2]

I guess....I don't believe I can be normal. I believe that I can live a better, more meaningful life, and that I will continue to improve my skills for coping with our extreme emotions, their duration, and their pain for hours and days on end--and I'm better able to combat the chronic sense of shame. I'm better. There's that....

[bpd2]

Does my first reply sound depressing? It truly isn't meant to be. It's that "normal" is just not helpful to me. When I think about being normal, it gives me no hope.

What gives me hope and interest and curiosity is thinking about more specific goals--like figuring out how I am going to end this next book I'm writing (I know the ending, there's just this clunky stuff in the middle that hasn't really taken shape, yet).

Some days, I just prefer to think of myself as eccentric....A little whacko, but everyone should know someone a little whacko; it keeps them sane!

[Dark_Dreams]

What is normal? What is the definition of normal to which you are aspiring?

Personally, I don't understand normal, do not like normal and in no way do I ever look for people who are. It is my assertion that normal is a falacy. It does not exist. Society has set up this normal that every single person in the world is trying to reach but it never happens.

I agree with bpd2. Everyone should know someone a little wacko. Someone who thinks differently, acts differently, feels differently. It is what helps me grow. If I was surrounded by a bunch of people who all thought and felt the same way, I would never learn anything and would be bored

[cluelessgluten]

I'm with you guys who needs normal. I would just like to feel alive again.

Originally Posted by bpd2

I guess....I don't believe I can be normal. I believe that I can live a better, more meaningful life, and that I will continue to improve my skills for coping with our extreme emotions, their duration, and their pain for hours and days on end--and I'm better able to combat the chronic sense of shame. I'm better. There's that....

The chronic sense of shame is a big one for me too.

Hugs

[bpd2]

The chat this week is on Loving Yourself. It was prompted by those feelings of shame and depression.

I hadn't ever really thought of being 'normal' as an option.

I think I'd like to be my best self- the best version of me that I can be. I suspect this is a life long project...!

(bpd2, please could you tell me more about this 'chat', like when and where it is? thanks x)

[chicken_wing]

I want to be normal. To me, normal means being able to regulate my emotions; I see this as self-sufficiency. I don't want the push and pull, the manipulations, the happiness one minute sadness the next, the need for others to validate me, etc.

How do I get membership? I wish I could pay for one. Or maybe, I am through my numerous T sessions.

[bpd2]

Improving: we have a chat on the calendar, every week, called: Borderline Personality Disorder Support: Positive support for the challenges and successes in living wth this disorder.

I lead it with a topic --usually focused, but open for comments and questions all along the way. It's focused around one idea, or one or two techniques and how those work for us--or how they don't work for us and how we might be able to use part of an idea that others want us to try.

Some of the ideas, in particular, are familiar--but when we've been told them before, or hear other people say them, those ideas and suggestions don't take into account our condition. Other helpful people don't know how debilitating the emotional pain really is, that we are already trying the hardest we can--and now they want us to try something new!--that our emotions most commonly revert to shame, that our triggers are nano-hair triggers (micro-triggers), that we need praise, not bribery; that we need reassurance, not punishment; that we need the helpful person to know how commonly we avoid previously "aversive" experiences (like being asked to do too much too soon, failing, feeling shame and wanting never to go near that technique--and maybe that person--ever again. And we need people to realize that neutral to us...is not neutral. Instead, neutral is almost always interpreted by us as judgmental or untrustworthy, manipulative! It's hard for us to even recognize a comment or a facial expression as neutral--What IS neutral???

So, the environment is ours, the topics are chosen because of our needs--things we borderlines face as borderlines.

The last few chats have been on communication: how screwed up it gets for us, and a couple of ideas about how to get control of that. Ideas that sound simple, but that are incredibly difficult for us--most people would never understand how difficult--because of our heightened emotionality.

When something triggers our emotions, it is incredibly difficult for us to think, right? Many people don't realize how much time we need to be able to get that back, and most people don't realize how much guidance we need in untangling our thoughts so that we can get back on track.

I think of a counselor who was trying to get a depressed patient to write to his son, so that he could re-connect to some sort of community outside of the hospital. She kept asking him how that was going...day after day. She would give him little pointers of things she might say, and so on.............I don't think that works for us. When we're depressed and/or trying to overcome the shame that is an impediment to our even feeling brave enough to reach out in a letter, we're doing well if we can even find the energy to gather an envelope and a stamp. Or find the right pen! And failing in being able to write the letter snowballs for us, and the idea of the letter ends up making us worse!

So. This week's topic may carry over--into our forum, into future weeks. It's "loving ourselves". Because most of us don't. Or, if things are going well, and we're thinking we're pretty cool, we also feel this cliff right behind it--somewhere in the dark, and we might be getting really, really close to it. So, "loving ourselves" is a different topic for us than it is for other people.

All of us have ideas and experiences to contribute to these chats--we help each other with our presence. Just like activity on this forum helps us. The connections we can have with each other make a big difference in my ability to tolerate situations in my life.

[bpd2]

Chickenwing: those therapy $$$$!
I see what you mean about that kind of normal. I think I can learn control. I don't know if I can learn extinction of the enormity of the emotion I need to control?

[chicken_wing]

Originally Posted by bpd2

Chickenwing: those therapy $$$$!
I see what you mean about that kind of normal. I think I can learn control. I don't know if I can learn extinction of the enormity of the emotion I need to control?

Yeah, I imagine that would never go away. So it is my hope to at least avoid things that trigger the negative, crazy emotions, like visiting my family or having frequent phone contact with them.

[bpd2]

And we get to do that! I mean, if we had bad knees, we wouldn't keep buying houses with stairs, right! We can find alternative ways of getting a view or saving space. Dang! Even a periscope if we have to! OR: !

[Uprwestsdr]

By normal I suppose I mean there were no mentally ill, alcoholic people in my life. Nobody tried to sexually abuse me.

Ok, given that, sure I'd love to be normal! However I don't think I'd gone as far in life as I have .... I spent decades trying to prove my mother was wrong about me!

[bpd2]

Some would say normal is overrated or hard to pin point. But, I suppose, I'm referring to being someone who has more control and less chaos in life.

People with that type of functioning have the energy to be more productive, participate in more enjoyable activities and are able to plan ahead for a more stable future.

So yes, I do want to be normal - that is my goal.

[kalisha36]

I know I always say "what is normal" but in reality my shame is I know what I believe what normal is!!! Too that full time person that can function do everything smile not break down, not be concerned about there relationships be themselves...I actually KNOW people like that!!! They like themselves...YES they go thru sh** and they do come thru it NOT blaming themselves but rising above it. They luv there families and don't think there husband is cheating on them even if there not blond or a size 2? I dunno!! There confident and not perfect! There just themselves! That's too me normal...Being content...Living and not being consumed by everyone elses molds of lives to try to fit in at every corner, whether educational sexual,health, mental etc...Really...I can't sleep without going thru my whole day re-analyzing it? What did I say to who, could I say it better? Did I say the wrong thing? UGH!!! Just want to be "normal" in the sense of free of this insanity..

Originally Posted by kalisha36

I know I always say "what is normal" but in reality my shame is I know what I believe what normal is!!! Too that full time person that can function do everything smile not break down, not be concerned about there relationships be themselves...I actually KNOW people like that!!! They like themselves...YES they go thru sh** and they do come thru it NOT blaming themselves but rising above it. They luv there families and don't think there husband is cheating on them even if there not blond or a size 2? I dunno!! There confident and not perfect! There just themselves! That's too me normal...Being content...Living and not being consumed by everyone elses molds of lives to try to fit in at every corner, whether educational sexual,health, mental etc...Really...I can't sleep without going thru my whole day re-analyzing it? What did I say to who, could I say it better? Did I say the wrong thing? UGH!!! Just want to be "normal" in the sense of free of this insanity..

I totally get it.

[khansmom]

Well said Chicken Wing. I always wondered if there was a month long treatment center to be put in and come out "normal".

[Perna]

I think that first, you have to decide who you know personally or could meet that are members of this club and then go hang out with them, talk with them and learn what it is that they do that attracts you to them. I'm currently watching/trying to copy my sister-in-law, whom I perceive as a friendly, relaxed, hugger

Originally Posted by Perna

I think that first, you have to decide who you know personally or could meet that are members of this club and then go hang out with them, talk with them and learn what it is that they do that attracts you to them. I'm currently watching/trying to copy my sister-in-law, whom I perceive as a friendly, relaxed, hugger

I do know some members of this club and have engaged in conversation; however, my mind wanders. If there isn't some pathological element involved, I tend to lose interest.

[bpd2]

I'm thinking about this one.

What has happened when I try to hang out with people I admire for their emotional stability is that I end up busting out of the relatioinship because I feel shut down--that is, I have to stifle myself so much that I'm not there....and, usually, just before I leave, I precipitate it by an enormous effort of piety, but without any faith to sustain it. Mine is a heart divided between opitimism and pessimism.

I find it so hard to know when I am "being" something or am something. "Being" blows up in my face, but maybe it does so because I very frequent, short-term reinforcement?

[Pucca]

I think normal for me would be to just have one week where by the weekend I wanted to do more than just sleep. I have all these projects I want to do, but by the weekend I'm too exhausted to do anything.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by bpd2

I find it so hard to know when I am "being" something or am something. "Being" blows up in my face, but maybe it does so because I very frequent, short-term reinforcement?

It sounds like you're having trouble distinguishing among three very different ways of "being" something:

1. You experience yourself as being (whatever). It's true for you on some level, whether or not anyone else agrees or even knows. There's no rule that the different ways you experience yourself have to fit together neatly. You can feel strong and weak at the same time, for instance.

2. Others agree that you're (whatever) and treat you accordingly, whether that fits with how you see yourself or not. You may never know if they privately think something different because if they were to admit it, it would of course become their new public position. You can, however, note whether what they say agrees with what they do and even point it out on occasion: "You say I'm your best friend, so how come you crossed the street the other day when you saw me coming?"

3. You assume that it must be permanently "written" somewhere that you're (whatever). Then, if you think you're not, you're wrong, or if anyone else says you're not, they're wrong. By this reasoning, if you feel different ways about yourself, you must be wrong at least part of the time.

Personally, I find it most useful to assume that if 3. "exists" at all it's only as part of 1. I may wonder what's "written" about me and whether everyone can "read" it except me, but if it's written at all, it's only because I just wrote it. Others are free to "write" their own versions in their own space but I'll never know unless they tell me.

[FooZe]

To continue with what I was just saying: I'm pretty sure my parents wanted me to "be" somebody who reflected credit on them. They'd set out to teach me some principle such as "Don't be lazy." Demonstrating that principle was good, and even insects that demonstrated it (bees, ants) were valuable because they were such good examples for the rest of us. If I could do something well in an hour, that wasn't as good as doing the same job not quite so well in four hours -- the second way showed I was more industrious.

(Later, when those same industrious ants started invading my mom's kitchen, she didn't seem to think quite so highly of them -- but that's another story. )

Originally Posted by bpd2

What has happened when I try to hang out with people I admire for their emotional stability is that I end up busting out of the relatioinship because I feel shut down--that is, I have to stifle myself so much that I'm not there...

I used to look for "role models" all the time -- notice someone whose actions, style or even appearance I admired and try to follow or copy their example. I used negative role models a lot, too: I wanted to be sure never to be (or look, or sound) anything like _____ because _____ turned me off (triggered me?! ) in some way, so obviously they had to be turning off everyone else the same way. It eventually started to occur to me that (a.) everyone I disliked and didn't want to be like, many others seemed to like just fine, and (b.) none of the people I admired the most seemed to have gotten whatever way they were by copying someone else.