[Beana77]

The panic reaction from before was actually mine not his. I told him I needed space and then came the panic and I took it back.

Well... new developments last night. I sent him a mildly *****y text and he got all self-righteous, told me I was annoying and offensive and to never contact him again. So I think what I did was force him to make the decision for me because I know he can't tolerate any negativity sent his way, even if it's justified. He actually said "I need positive people in my life" when he is the most negative person I have ever met. I'm pretty ****ed up over it even though I know it's for the best. I drank way too much last night and feel like absolute garbage today. I guess all there is to do now is lick my wounds and try to recover from this nightmare. I have to ask myself what it is I'm actually mourning, since it was such a one-sided relationship. Maybe I'll miss feeling needed?

The really pathetic part is that I still begged him not to cut me off. This kind of thing has happened twice before (with narcissists), but otherwise I am a pretty stable person so it seems to come out of left field for the other person. There is something about this personality type that triggers my abandonment fears and a desperation to stay in their good graces. My therapist thinks it's because my mom is a narcissist and I seek validation and comfort from people like her because I never got it from her. Whatever it is, it needs to stop. I need to identify these people early on and not allow them in my head or heart. At this moment, I can't imagine trusting anyone. Before I started talking with D, I didn't date at all for over a year because I was so jaded from my last experience. Over the year of our "relationship", I dated one guy for a month and nothing came of it because he could probably tell I was in love with D. Other than that, I haven't dated at all so I've basically cut myself off from potential healthy partners to be his nurse maid/counselor/surrogate girlfriend. So why does the thought of never talking to him again terrify me so much? It feels like someone ripped my arm off.

Thank God I see my therapist today.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Beana77

There is something about this personality type that triggers my abandonment fears and a desperation to stay in their good graces. My therapist thinks it's because my mom is a narcissist and I seek validation and comfort from people like her because I never got it from her.

I hear this. I ordered a Susan Anderson book somebody else recommended on this site on being an "Abandoholic". You would not believe the garbage I glommed onto. Sorry to be that harsh (about my exes, I realize they were people too!), but really. Is your mother still around?

[abeautifulmind]

I would have tortured and killed him =/

Well, not technically, I wouldn`t want to spend the rest of my days in a criminally insane ward but I`d just never speak to him again. Ignore him and delete all evidence associated with him.

[Beana77]

Originally Posted by hankster

I hear this. I ordered a Susan Anderson book somebody else recommended on this site on being an "Abandoholic". You would not believe the garbage I glommed onto. Sorry to be that harsh (about my exes, I realize they were people too!), but really. Is your mother still around?

Yes, my mother is still around. She's in a really bad situation that she put herself in and now we have to support her financially. On top of that, she is very needy and has no clue how much she ****ed us up. She just takes and takes. Hmmmm sounds familiar.

I should check out that book. I feel like absolute garbage myself right now. Last night in my drunken haze, I had a flash of insight that made me really sad. I kept saying in my head "I'm not a real person to him". The more I repeated it, the more I realized how true it is. I'm just a marionette that he can manipulate to serve whatever emotional need he has at any given moment. Now that I've started having needs and feelings, I've become an annoyance. I guess that should make it easier to let go, but it makes it harder. Why is that?

Isn't there a book about Narcissists and Borderlines in relationships? That would be an interesting read. Unfortunately, couples books are usually geared towards married couples, so a lot of it doesn't apply.

[unaluna]

(beautiful mind)
^^^^^ Road trip!! I l0ve PC! Everybody is so willing to help each other out, we feel each other's pain as if it is our own. Not being sarcastic.

I have that book too, I just came across it in my dehoarding. And I believe it was quoted in some length on this website in a thread this summer/fall.

[Beana77]

Originally Posted by abeautifulmind

I would have tortured and killed him =/

Well, not technically, I wouldn`t want to spend the rest of my days in a criminally insane ward but I`d just never speak to him again. Ignore him and delete all evidence associated with him.

Can't say I'm not tempted. I don't think ignoring him will be an option on my end because he seems pretty serious about cutting off contact. I have to laugh that he's the one that ended up cutting off contact with everything that's happened. Now I'm just some psycho girl he used to know that has been blacklisted. So sad. I don't know how to salvage any semblance of dignity or empowerment at this point.

[unaluna]

Ya know, when my psycho b!tch girlfriend killed my car (as described above, Dec 21), that was IT for me. Not just towards HER, but it WAS like I'd been beheaded, or gutted. There was no going back. That is the end of the line. They can't put you back together after evisceration. I even had a dream about it once. You're still alive, but you KNOW it's over. You're right, it's not something you can choose, this was a gift that was given to me. Like a frontal lobotomy. I probably still have some "processing" to do. Sigh!

[Beana77]

Originally Posted by hankster

Ya know, when my psycho b!tch girlfriend killed my car (as described above, Dec 21), that was IT for me. Not just towards HER, but it WAS like I'd been beheaded, or gutted. There was no going back. That is the end of the line. They can't put you back together after evisceration. I even had a dream about it once. You're still alive, but you KNOW it's over. You're right, it's not something you can choose, this was a gift that was given to me. Like a frontal lobotomy. I probably still have some "processing" to do. Sigh!

I didn't do anything remotely like that. My text literally said "now that the xmas blues have passed and your friend is in town, I cease to exist for you. I wish I could do that." I definitely threw some attitude his way, but it was mild compared to what he deserved. I was feeling sensitive yesterday because he brought up asking a girl out, and I let his lack of response to my text spin me into a paranoid state. He had some right to be annoyed, but his response was disproportionate. I gave him the excuse he needed to discard me because I no longer serve a purpose for him (full time ego-stroker/support system with no life or needs of my own).

hankster - are you the BPD or are you here seeking answers about your ex?

[Beana77]

Originally Posted by cboxpalace

WHAT?? Seriously!!! We are talking about the guy that was telling you about the hot girls on the way to the football field, the guy that said you ruined the game and insisted on leaving the game at half time, the guy that wanted you to pay him back for the tickets, the guy that makes you feel chewed up and spit and makes you feel like you have to apologize for everything (even when it's not your fault), the guy that roped you in and then discarded you, the guy that takes you away from the people that could be supporting. The same guy that basically treats you like ****!!

This guy?

YOU CAN'T ** NOT ** KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THE QUESTION YOU ASK!!!

Can you please post the answer to your question for me? So I know that some of this is sinking in!!! <--- I am serious about this!!



-cbox

I think I answered this question. Does it seem to be sinking in? I guess I'm still in a mourning period and my responses reflect that ambivalence.

[unaluna]

I am not comparing what my ex did, to how you acted towards your friend. I am comparing what my ex did, to how this person treated you, and wondering why his actions have not been enough to "cut off" your feelings for him. I suspected you took it this way when I first mentioned it, I should have said something then. I AM saying I have accepted some pretty egregious behavior from exes. But now I am also realizing that as a child, I put up with very bad behavior from my mother. She was just plain rude to me, as a baseline. So I avoided her as much as possible. But I excused her behavior in my mind, and made a habit of excusing that kind of behavior in intimate relationships. I was the queen of self-deprecating humor, or as some people call it, self-defecating humor. Poop on yourself, make fun of yourself before somebody else does.

Anyway, as part of my reparenting, my T helps me out of my chair at end of each session, and helps me on with my coat, and sometimes even my backpack. I didn't understand this at first, when he said he liked doing it and would do it even if my abs ever did get stronger! Maybe he's setting the bar too high? Maybe it will average out to a happy medium. I hope I didn't avoid your question?

[Beana77]

Yes, I think that answers my question hankster.

I don't know why his behavior isn't enough to turn off my feelings, but it just isn't. It literally feels like I'll die without him in my life. I know I won't really, but it triggers that level of desperation. It's nuts.

[unaluna]

Yeah. I get that. It's a totally yucky feeling. Maybe it was the initial SHOCK of finding my car like that, more than the actual damage, that changed me? Because I can't really explain it. I ran into her at the grocery store some years later, and I was still like, "whoa! but nooo!"

[Beana77]

I just had a revelation about why my text bothered him so much. The worst thing I can do to someone like him is induce shame. My words were subtly saying "shame on you, you're behavior is wrong and hurtful". Most people take the bait, so I haven't had to look at why I do this to begin with. What is my goal when I wag my finger at someone and make them feel bad? It's not like this is going to make them love me or realize they're behavior is wrong.

I'm not excusing his response, but I have to look at why I do this. I've always done it, especially in passionate relationships that ended badly. When things take a turn and I'm feeling the feelings that usually precipitate an angry, shaming response, I need to step back and stop myself. It just makes me feel worse when all is said and done. If someone is unwilling to look at their own behavior, angry words just push them further into denial and projection. I end up making the case for why I should be abandoned when that is the very thing I'm so desperately trying to prevent.

[abeautifulmind]

Originally Posted by Beana77

Can't say I'm not tempted. I don't think ignoring him will be an option on my end because he seems pretty serious about cutting off contact. I have to laugh that he's the one that ended up cutting off contact with everything that's happened. Now I'm just some psycho girl he used to know that has been blacklisted. So sad. I don't know how to salvage any semblance of dignity or empowerment at this point.

As long as he doesn`t bother you any more because he sounds poisonous. Hopefully he won`t bother you again. The problem is he might turn around and suddenly want to be in contact with you and won`t stop bothering you; I have BPD and this has happened to me. I will cut someone off one moment then want to get back another moment but now, I force myself not to do this but it is hard. I am just saying that he might attempt to get back in contact and ruin you further. Don`t let him. He will end up doing the same thing again perhaps =/ I`m sorry you have to go through this.

[Beana77]

Originally Posted by abeautifulmind

As long as he doesn`t bother you any more because he sounds poisonous. Hopefully he won`t bother you again. The problem is he might turn around and suddenly want to be in contact with you and won`t stop bothering you; I have BPD and this has happened to me. I will cut someone off one moment then want to get back another moment but now, I force myself not to do this but it is hard. I am just saying that he might attempt to get back in contact and ruin you further. Don`t let him. He will end up doing the same thing again perhaps =/ I`m sorry you have to go through this.

He blacklists people all the time so I don't think it's an issue for him. He sounded pretty done to me. He will miss his sounding board, but I became something else that he couldn't tolerate, so he'll endure my absence. Maybe he'll find another sounding board, but most people find him pretty hard to take. Thanks for the sympathy. When you look at the situation and the relationship at face value, my distress and despair might seem disproportionate, but he really has become my best friend. There's nobody else I talk to that frequently or care to talk to that frequently. Now he's gone and there's a huge void.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by Beana77

I end up making the case for why I should be abandoned when that is the very thing I'm so desperately trying to prevent.

Sounds like you're looking for opportunities to practice dealing with abandonment -- sort of the way fighters train against a sparring partner.

[unaluna]

What you said about you all needing to take care of your mom right now - this sounds more like her issue than yours? You kinda psychologically inherited it? I know that's not possible; I'm just saying, she was not there for you, you felt abandoned from the beginning - all the things you're saying about shame could be said to her? You are doing really good work here.

[Beana77]

Yes and Yes to Fooze and hankster. I just had therapy and that helped. My therapist thinks he will contact me eventually, so she's making sure I'm prepared if he does. She doesn't seem to think that it would be terrible to talk to him again as long as I'm able to say my piece and stand my ground. I don't know what that would actually look like or if he would even give me the space to do that. She thinks I need to take my power back somehow since he's been setting all the terms. All I know is that I feel a sadness so deep that probably has very little to do with D and everything to do with my childhood wounds. I talked to my therapist about how my mother would expect us to be happy if she was happy and sad if she was sad. She would punish us for visiting our grandmother (my dad's mom) because she didn't like her... stuff like that. I never developed a sense of self apart from a pathological human being, which is where all this desperate need comes from.

I'm seeing my therapist again on Thursday... she could tell how much I need it. I look like hell... I gave myself alcohol poisoning last night by drinking a half bottle of Fernet. I can't keep self-destructing like this. It's ridiculous.

[unaluna]

I've been reading this book by ivri kumin, there is only one book on amazon by him, and every word is 5 syllables, so it's a slog, but it's just what you said, a sense of self aside from a pathological human being - actually, if you look at mum & baby as a brain sandwich, where the sandwich eventually becomes the child - that's kinda how it goes. or pizza and toppings. how do you "remake" a pizza, kinda hard. sounds like you had a really good session. great insight on the booze too, took me way too long to get there, plus my issue was/is food. gee could you guess by those examples? anyway, now I wouldn't worry if you do talk you don't talk - it's like my 20-year crush guy - it's all material for therapy, it's all something to learn from. The feeling of relief I had, the first time Crush was a few steps ahead of me, and I did NOT hurry to catch up with him just to say hello! PAH.THET.ICK!

[athena2011]

Beans, I just can't help but think: The guy's probably reading this stuff you are posting. I had a similar experience wrt meeting a guy on the internet with serious mental health issues - mostly PTSD, rage and utter lack of empathy. Eventually he confessed he had been reading my posts aBout him and it really creeped me out. Fortunately we never met though (it's amazing how real things can get with Internet, e-mails, Skype etc.). The ambivalence (love/hate, not apathy) on my part was insane. He kept disappearing on me and it drove me crazy because he always did it in a 'laying the guilt trip' kind of way, and I kept drawing him back, trying to defend myself, see how he could take my words as anything but massively kind and supportive.

So....if he lays the guilt trip on you as he leaves...DO NOT FALL for it. It's not you, it's HIM.

Oh, one last thing - we tried the 'friends' thing. Too much history, too much insanity. Not possible.

Originally Posted by Beana77

The panic reaction from before was actually mine not his. I told him I needed space and then came the panic and I took it back.
.

ah...very good, I should have realised or at least read a bit closer. Insensitive dumbasses don't panic...! at least not about relationship issues...unless I'm missing something else?

Just last week I managed to remove an extremely damaging person from my life (not NCIS Miami style)....[though I thought about it]

I don't particularly enjoy looking like the crazy unhinged nutjob that I inevitably do in a personal crisis involving another person who somehow has breached my defenses and fiddles me around like some moron puppet clown!. But I seem to have to lose my sanity in order to get it back.
I used every borderline skill I have to get rid of this person who I had been hanging onto for years and years...and simply because I cannot help it when I have hurt beyond my capabilities.

Sure it nearly destroyed me...and thankfully I have a support network, be it skeleton staff over xmas. Not a good time to make a major life decision by the way.

I was chained to this person like 50 dogs to a fence.

anyhow, I looked like a crazy fool...I was massively erratic...seemingly irrational...indecisive as all get out!...but these are the things that I love about me!....and the other person.(god bless their @%&$F&%$crappy insensitive no @&%*ing idea self).
I won't hear from them ever again..and I am FREE

I can't help but be all those seemingly crazy things...these things are not crazy to me...but I am sure glad they were crazy to them.

yep

Originally Posted by dubblemonkey

anyhow, I looked like a crazy fool...I was massively erratic...seemingly irrational...indecisive as all get out!...but these are the things that I love about me!....

....more accurately...and more realistically.."these and many other qualities in my secret stash of blunders, faults and mishaps"...

I am *learning*...*intendind* to love about myself...

I have spent a lot of time throughout life trying to get other people to see me the way that I want to see myself....which simply isn't who I am.
...and what a personal tangle that becomes real fast.

getting around pretending I have no challenges....finding myself in places in way over my head.

It's liberating to be able to stop for a sec and say.."oh well I am a bit messed up here...alot messed there and probly heaps messed up way over there" ..."and I'm okay about it"

carried on a bit there....time to water the lawn

[cboxpalace]

Originally Posted by Beana77

I think I answered this question. Does it seem to be sinking in? I guess I'm still in a mourning period and my responses reflect that ambivalence.

NO!!!!! IT REALLY DOESN'T, AND I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS THREAD HAS GONE ON FOR 8 PAGES. I'm bored!!

Some people are a glutten for punishment... Good luck... I suspect you'll need it...

Feel free to..

whatever it takes....however long it takes,

where we're goin' we won't need clocks, heres a good place to practice

[Beana77]

I am definitely a glutton for punishment, no argument there. However, I don't really have the option to be a masochist any longer because he has cut me off. Yes, he has cut me off. The irony of that is almost too much for my already fragile self-esteem. But... I did provide the catalyst for his decision by telling him he makes me feel like **** about myself. That was a big step for me because usually I refrain from sharing anything like this with him because he can't handle 1. Me talking about my feelings and 2. Any kind of criticism. So even though it was a small thing in the spectrum of standing up for myself, it was a step in the right direction. Deep down I knew it would make him go away.

I don't think he's on this forum so no danger in him reading my posts (I hope). He may read what I wrote in the other forum but I don't really care at this point.

So now I'm just licking my wounds and trying to learn from this experience. Hopefully I won't stay this jaded and fearful for long, because I would like to get out there and meet the right person.

Thanks for all the great support everyone (cbox included).

Any last words for how to recover from this to make sure I don't repeat the same mistakes in the future? My therapist was so concerned about me she told me to come back tomorrow, and she's going to do some EMDR with me. I'm eager to work through some of this trauma.

Thanks!